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28 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 


Didn't we reach the point of no return in 2016?

 

Therefore...

  • BECAUSE the time was wrong and more or less a scare tactic of when Earth will cease to be able to sustain HUMAN life (because we really arent killing the planet, we are killing ourselves)...then humans are NOT on the road to ruin causing our OWN distinction therefore we shall continue our destructive ways? 

Unless of course you dont think the way we do things now are NOT destructive...

  • And...BECAUSE the time was wrong and more or less a scare tactic of when Earth will cease to be able to sustain HUMAN life..then we should do NOTHING about it.  Because the time was wrong and more or less a scare tactic that means that day will NEVER come?
  • BECAUSE the time was wrong and more or less a scare tactic of when the Earth will cease to be able to sustain HUMAN life, that means  that ONLY big fat asteroids cause cataclysmic extinctions?  

 

 

Edited by oldshurst442

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You're daisy-chaining together a lot of ifs and therefores, no?
Is the climate / the Earth really that 'tab A > slot B' cause-effective?
Or are there 10,000 variables a minute for any singular moment in time?

- - - - -
Is it that the 'time' was wrong, or that the science supposedly behind the time was wrong?
If the latter, why, and what else is wrong? What is right?

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37 minutes ago, balthazar said:

You're daisy-chaining together a lot of ifs and therefores, no?
Is the climate / the Earth really that 'tab A > slot B' cause-effective?
Or are there 10,000 variables a minute for any singular moment in time?

- - - - -
Is it that the 'time' was wrong, or that the science supposedly behind the time was wrong?
If the latter, why, and what else is wrong? What is right?

The science is wrong?

Should I post those pollution pics again?

Doesnt take a scientist to tell us  that pollution is...bad.

How many news reports state that carbon monoxide killed another poor soul because the car was runnin' and not sufficient ventilation...

That stuff goes in to the earth's atmosphere, non?

You wanna say that there is no cause and effect...

Really? 

Then there is the science part. The real deal science behind it.

 

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/global-maps/MOP_CO_M

Quote

Carbon monoxide is a trace gas in the atmosphere, and it does not have a direct effect on the global temperature, like methane and carbon dioxide do. However, carbon monoxide plays a major role in atmospheric chemistry, and it affects the ability of the atmosphere to cleanse itself of many other polluting gases. In combination with other pollutants and sunshine, it also takes part in the formation of lower-atmospheric (“bad”) ozone and urban smog.

https://www.conserve-energy-future.com/smogpollution.php

Quote

The ground level ozone present in the smog also inhibits plant growth and causes immense damage to crops and forests.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/storms/trees-affect-weather1.htm

Quote

Evapotranspiration. Trees affect our climate, and therefore our weather, in three primary ways: they lower temperatures, reduce energy usage and reduce or remove air pollutants. Each part of the tree contributes to climate control, from leaves to roots. Leaves help turn down the thermostat.

 

No climate change due to human activity, huh? 

All links by pseudo scientists bought by corrupt politicians, right?

Nothing real or logical in those three links I posted and what Im about to summarize, right?

  • Carbon monoxide released by the cars we drive (keeping in mind my the post I made yesterday about human population growing exponentially to 10 billion souls by 2050 and why ICE may not be an answer for our future)
  • Although carbon monoxide does NOT cause the climate to warm up directly...it does inhibit plant growth and trees and stuff... and it kills living things INCLUDING plants and trees and stuff...through the phenomenon called smog 
  • slow growth of trees or downright death of them...which smog is a factor of,  trees affect our climate.  

 So yeah...human activity is no way influencing the climate in any way...  

Notice I kept it to ONLY automobiles...

We deforest trees. We pollute our oceans. Im sure the plastics we throw into our oceans also have an effect, direct or indirect , affecting living things that affect the climate...and so forth and so forth...

 

Now...Ive shown "proof" of some sort of MY thought process.

Pictures to prove that there is human activity and pollution going on...

Ive posted links to "educated" sites...I guess...maybe these are paid organizations to fool us...who knows?  To show cause and effect... 

Now...where is the data on your side to contradict this?

Words to the effect of "I dont believe you" ...aint gonna cut it...  

The millions of years argument...aint gonna cut it either...

Edited by oldshurst442
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Quote

The science is wrong? Should I post those pollution pics again?


That does not address what I referenced. Again, are we discussing, or talking past one another?

'We' were supposed to be at a climatic point of no return about 4 years ago, according to the mouthpiece (then) of climate change; one Mr Al Gore.  There was no question then; no question and no questioning.  I recall something related about 'boiling seas'.  I recall vehement finger-pointing and red-letter cries of 'DENIER!'  These unavoidable, specific events were predicted to happen in Year X, but that year has passed.

As these unquestionable near-future events were science based yet failed to occur as predicted, I ask; where did the science go wrong?  And if the science was 'right', where & why did the mouthpiece get it wrong?

Is not science an ever-evolving collection of hypothesis that are continually tested to objectively confirm (or disprove) such?

It seems to me that anyone who accepts the 'climate change caused solely by man' theory believes it is an absolute, unwavering, forever truth.  Know who else treats a story they personally have never seen any hard evidence on with the same reverence?
 

Quote

No climate change due to human activity, huh?

If the above was addressed to me, where did I ever state that?

Edited by balthazar

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5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

'We' were supposed to be at a climatic point of no return about 4 years ago, according to the mouthpiece (then) of climate change; one Mr Al Gore.  There was no question then; no question and no questioning.  I recall something related about 'boiling seas'.  I recall vehement finger-pointing and red-letter cries of 'DENIER!'  These unavoidable, specific events were predicted to happen in Year X, but that year has passed.

 

Therefore...

  • BECAUSE the time was wrong and more or less a scare tactic of when Earth will cease to be able to sustain HUMAN life (because we really arent killing the planet, we are killing ourselves)...then humans are NOT on the road to ruin causing our OWN distinction therefore we shall continue our destructive ways? 

Unless of course you dont think the way we do things now are NOT destructive...

  • And...BECAUSE the time was wrong and more or less a scare tactic of when Earth will cease to be able to sustain HUMAN life..then we should do NOTHING about it.  Because the time was wrong and more or less a scare tactic that means that day will NEVER come?
  • BECAUSE the time was wrong and more or less a scare tactic of when the Earth will cease to be able to sustain HUMAN life, that means  that ONLY big fat asteroids cause cataclysmic extinctions?  

 

Read only the bolded parts...

I dont really care what Al Gore, President Trump, Greta Thorwhatverhernameis, big Oil, Sesame Street say about climate change.

I see for myself what humans do to the planet. 

Im educated enough, saavy enough to look for scientific evidence to see what humans do to the planet and I put two and two together.

Ill tell you about Al Gore...

He once said that he built a 3000 square foot house (or whatever square footage it was...but it was a huge house...bigger than the average American home) with "ecological friendly materials with eco friendly energy usage that compares to homes of 1600 square feet with conventional and the norm...

If he truly was a tree huggin' greenie, he would have built a 1600 square foot home, because a TRUE earth lovin' human does NOT need more than that really, especially when he built that home when his kids were almost out of the house...so that his eco friendly 1600 square foot home could have a foot print that eqauls a bloody hut...

So yeah... I understand what you are saying...

But NO!!!

JUST because fraudulent people make false claims on BOTH sides does NOT mean that human activity does NOT influence the climate....

THAT would be YOUR argument's flaw...not mine.

 

Edited by oldshurst442

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59 minutes ago, balthazar said:

If the above was addressed to me, where did I ever state that?

I think you answered your own question...in the same post I might add...

59 minutes ago, balthazar said:

It seems to me that anyone who accepts the 'climate change caused solely by man' theory believes it is an absolute, unwavering, forever truth.  Know who else treats a story they personally have never seen any hard evidence on with the same reverence?

 

PS:  "solely by man"...may be your ticket out...

But MY discussion was never about "solely by man"...     It is about a growing human population that ICE may not be a good way to travel anymore. Possible electric motorvation may be a viable alternative.  Lets discuss that....I said...

It lead to climate change...which ICE and carbon monoxide is HUGELY a factor of air pollution...hence the human population growth argument where more and more people will have more access to ICE  and hence even MORE carbon monoxide in our atmosphere...which I say that sure!  YEAH!  Human activity DOES INFLUENCE climate change...

I also say that there is a NATURAL course of climate change...but humans DO influence it NEGATIVELY...

So I guess, we are talking past each other...

Here...more pics..

1 milllion years ago on planet earth

Image result for 1 million years ago volcanoes

 

Sulfur and carbon dioxide and all kinds of other gases. Heats up the earth. Cools it down to extreme also with ash fallouts causing ice ages...

Today...we dont have volcanoes that erupt on mass extinction levels on almost a daily occurence...

But...we have this mess...

Oil fires

Image result for Kuwait oil fires

Image result for Kuwait oil fires

Industry

Image result for industry  pollution

 

car pollution...stuck in traffic going nowhere real fast...

Image result for traffic pollution

 

Almost the same phoquing thing...aint it?  KEEP IN MIND WE DO NOT HAVE VOLCANOES ERUPTING TO THE MAGNITUDE AND FREQUENCY OF THE ANCIENT ANCIENT TIMES...to support the million years ago argument...

 

PSS:  STILL no Data or links or proof to support your side of the discussion. Just words trying to find some sort of fallacy to discredit on.

Trying to find a "gotcha" statement.

"AHA!  2016 was supposed to be the end of the earth...but we are still here. "

Yet this "gotcha" moment does NOT address the fact that..well...pollution is killing us...no matter what AL Gore said about 2016...

Edited by oldshurst442

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I have not made any factual claims, I have only asked questions. Thusly, no data/links.
And it wasn't I who said 2016 was the end of the world. Perhaps Al has your requested data/links.

Quote

humans DO influence it NEGATIVELY...


Please site your

Quote

educated enough, saavy enough

 

Quote

scientific evidence

showing what humans do to the planet to affect climate change.

Edited by balthazar
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1 minute ago, balthazar said:

I have not made any factual claims, I have only asked questions. Thusly, no data/links.
And it wasn't I who said 2016 was the end of the world. Perhaps Al has your requested data/links.

 


Please site your

 


showing what humans do to the planet to affect climate change.

I already have brother...

its you that chooses to ignore.

PS: you ask the wrong questions...

 

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6 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

our OWN distinction

 

index.jpg

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Seems Tesla according to various stories such as this one is confirming shipping to customers Tesla Y CUVs.

https://electrek.co/2020/02/25/tesla-model-y-deliveries-customers-confirmation/

Where as Tesla on their own News site says deliveries will begin in Fall 2020.

https://www.tesla.com/presskit#modely

If the news of actual delivery's to customers is true, this really could help Tesla get into a consistent profitable quarter after quarter business model.

Seems since no clear info has been released from Tesla on the Model Y, a fan used his water bottle to measure ground clearance. Seems to be about 8 inches.

Twitter post on Tesla Y ground clearance

Tesla Model Y ground clearance measured, well kinda. Didn’t have a tape measure with me, so used the next best thing 😉 [tire size: 255/40/20] 

https://electrek.co/2020/02/27/tesla-model-y-ships-in-weeks-yet-were-measuring-ground-clearance-with-water-bottles/

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15 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Selfish shytes much like yourself whine why some fast food joints stopped serving plastic straws and went to paper ones to save the planet.

Did you convert to paper straws at your restaurant? 

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

 


Didn't we reach the point of no return in 2016?

I believe that started mid to late 2015. 

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Since @ocnblu does not like anything not pure ICE in the Random Thread posting this here:

VW Touareg PHEV will also come in a VW Touareg R PHEV with a combined 456 HP / 516 lb-ft of torque. A R first for VW division of performance and a first for the CUV line.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/02/26/vw-touareg-r-phev-geneva-motor-show/

456 HP / 516 lb-ft torque - 3.0-liter turbocharged TFSI V6 gas engine with 335 horsepower, with electric assistance provided by an e-motor producing 134 hp - 8sp transmission with standard 4motion AWD.

Max Towing 7,716 lbs

Pure e-mode allows 30 miles of pure EV up to 87 mph then ICE kicks in to a top speed of 155 mph.

Have to say this is a Sharp looking CUV.

image.png

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WOW, Go GO GO Hyundai!!!!

Sonata Hybrid for the US gets EPA numbers of 52 MPG with a range of up to 686 miles per tank.

https://www.carsdirect.com/automotive-news/2020-hyundai-sonata-hybrid-fuel-economy-rated-at-52-mpg

This matches the Toyota Camry Hybrid and beats the Honda Accord Hybrid which is 48 mpg. Per the story, this is a huge jump over the 2019 model which was only rated at 42 mpg.

Starting price is expected to be $26,680

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@ccap41

yes I did.

I also stopped with the plastic coffee stir sticks and use wooden ones.

All my other stuff is recycled paper containers.

The only thing left are the lids. Coffee and sodey pop lids remain plastic.  There are no viable alternatives to those just yet. I think as Im not aware of any products that could replace those. 

But Im sure there will be people that will bitch that my containers are one shot deals as well as there are other fast food joints that use re-usable containers. Kinda like bring your own containers type deal. We dont do that.

And yes....Ive had people compliment me for the papers straws for "saving the planet" as much as I had people bitch about them that the sodey pop tastes different and that the taste is shyte. Others bitch because the paper straws dissolve waaaay too quick...

We switched to paper straws for two reasons.

1. Yes...its good to do some sort of tree huggin' actions once in awhile. Every little thing helps...

2. I think its Quebec Law to reduce plastics and I think there is a ban for plastic straws that will come in effect sometime soon. If it hasnt been enacted already...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

@ccap41

yes I did.

I also stopped with the plastic coffee stir sticks and use wooden ones.

All my other stuff is recycled paper containers.

The only thing left are the lids. Coffee and sodey pop lids remain plastic.  There are no viable alternatives to those just yet. I think as Im not aware of any products that could replace those. 

But Im sure there will be people that will bitch that my containers are one shot deals as well as there are other fast food joints that use re-usable containers. Kinda like bring your own containers type deal. We dont do that.

And yes....Ive had people compliment me for the papers straws for "saving the planet" as much as I had people bitch about them that the sodey pop tastes different and that the taste is shyte. Others bitch because the paper straws dissolve waaaay too quick...

We switched to paper straws for two reasons.

1. Yes...its good to do some sort of tree huggin' actions once in awhile. Every little thing helps...

2. I think its Quebec Law to reduce plastics and I think there is a ban for plastic straws that will come in effect sometime soon. If it hasnt been enacted already...

This is what is all the use on the west coast since it is all compostable.

https://greenpaperproducts.com/biodegradable-hot-cups.aspx

Lids are awesome from this company.

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Jeep has entered the e-Bike market to compete with GM and others as they have released their Fat Tire all terrain bike.

https://jeepe-bike.com/

40 miles on a Charge for $5,899 per bike. Alternative web sites say that the motor and suspension system based on a Chinese company can have the bike sustain 37 miles per hour. Talk about a fast way to travel if you have dedicated safe bike lanes. In normal road traffice, you might not want to be going so fast.

image.png

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Exciting battery tech is moving forward as RoadRunner, Tesla's dry anode in house battery design out of Canada seems to be making headway as they push to disrupt the Auto world with Auto's on price parity with no rebates by 2025. This is the big push that GM, FORD, BMW and others have all said would come by having $100 per kWh cost of denser batteries to allow the EV to equal ICE and in many ways exceed them. This super dense project will also allow Tesla to move far beyond the 200 to 300 mile battery pack with 400 to 500 mile battery packs at reduced size and weight.

https://electrek.co/2020/02/26/tesla-secret-roadrunner-project-battery-production-massive-scale/

image.png

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Rematch of Tesla Cyber Truck versus Ford F150.

This had me cracking up, talk about crazy power in that half scale Cyber Truck! :P 

Tesla won in Court against the tree huggers and has in a very short time cleared all the trees to build their new European Battery and Auto assembly line and design center in Germany.

https://electrek.co/2020/02/29/tesla-finished-clearing-trees-giga-berlin/#more-124601

 

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12 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I thought the electric bikes were designed more as an assist and not going 37mph. 

Yes they do assist you while also increasing the speed one can go.

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7 hours ago, dfelt said:

speed once

are you sure you're not amish, that is directly out of the pennsylvania dutch vernacular once.

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Not sure where BMW thinks they are going with their Design language, but their i4 concept sedan EV is a Failure with that huge big mouth billy bass grill.

image.png

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/03/03/bmw-i4-electric-car-concept-details-first-look/#slide-2213559

Hyundai Prophecy EV Concept sedan says Tesla / Porsche to me. Nice and way better looking than the BMW mess above.

image.png

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/03/03/hyundai-prophecy-concept-electric-car/#slide-2213756

 

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