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Watch the Ford Mustang Mach-E Unveiling Live, 9 PM Eastern: Comments

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10 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

BAH...

Purists are always pissed about something...

Corvette purists are pissed that the Corvette is now mid-engined...

Porsche purists are STILL pissed that air cooled 911s are long gone...

Hockey purists are pissed because the game of hockey is now actually played on the ice instead of having WWE style battle royales happen on every other night.

Baseball purists are still pissed because of the designated hitter rule in the American League...

Phoqu'em!!!

Corvette purists are not really pissed and not on the same level at all, I'm one and I'm happy with the ME car so are many other Corvette guys. We do wish that they'd keep the front engine layout as well and GM may reconsider in the future. 

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2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Do those 'purists' actually even buy new cars, though ?    Or do they just wallow in nostalgia for the past...

These purist do buy cars.  They forced Porsche to bring back manual transmission for example.

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31 minutes ago, ykX said:

These people are actual customers that buy that product, whatever that is.  So I think it is in the best interest of the companies to listen to them.

911 became better by going liquid cooled.

Vette became better by going mid-engine.

Mustang name used on a crossover is not even close to these examples.

The people who are pissed are absolutely NOT EV SUV customers though so it's a moot point they're upset. 

How about Aston Martin making an SUV, Lamborghini making an SUV, Rolls Royce making an SUV, Maserati making an SUV, Ferrari making an SUV, Porsche making an SUV... all companies that were 100% cars and sports cars all the way(minus probably Rolls) and now they're making or have plans to make SUVs. 

Edited by ccap41
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18 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The people who are pissed are absolutely NOT EV SUV customers though so it's a moot point they're upset. 

How about Aston Martin making an SUV, Lamborghini making an SUV, Rolls Royce making an SUV, Maserati making an SUV, Ferrari making an SUV, Porsche making an SUV... all companies that were 100% cars and sports cars all the way(minus probably Rolls) and now they're making or have plans to make SUVs. 

It will be interesting to see the reaction when Chevy unveils the C9---a Corvette EV CUV.  

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46 minutes ago, ykX said:

These people are actual customers that buy that product, whatever that is.  So I think it is in the best interest of the companies to listen to them.

911 became better by going liquid cooled.

Vette became better by going mid-engine.

Mustang name used on a crossover is not even close to these examples.

Oh yes it is...

Choose to ignore, because you want to be right at all costs...

Choose to defend triggered folk because you want to cry about how naming this EV a Mustang is a bad thing...

@Robert Hall said, only time will tell if naming this EV a Mustang is a bad thing. And even then, if it fails in the market place, it may have NOTHING to do with its name.

The Oldsmobile Intrigue, would it have sold better if it kept the Cutlass Supreme name? 

All those things...are just noise...

Point being, triggered folk complain about everything. But you wanted to ignore that message and went another way...

About how the products improved.

How about actually arguing the REAL points and cut the BS???!!!

Point is, people whine about everything, and you know what?  LIFE GOES ON ANYWAY!!!

THAT WAS THE POINT!!!

Just because an EV is called a Mustang does NOTHING to hurt ANYTHING...

Their beloved 2 door V8 powered sports coupe is STILL on sale...therefore...just noise.

 

42 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Do those 'purists' actually even buy new cars, though ?    Or do they just wallow in nostalgia for the past...

That right there is something to think about, ykX...

 

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1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

Corvette purists are not really pissed and not on the same level at all, I'm one and I'm happy with the ME car so are many other Corvette guys. We do wish that they'd keep the front engine layout as well and GM may reconsider in the future. 

THAT right there, is me!!!

Im happy for mid-engined. Im sad for front engine going away.

Im super excited for the performance unlocking so Corvette (and America)  could REALLY kick some Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren, Lamborghini, Pagani, (European) ass.   (The Ford GT40 was only in racing and not in street car form) and Ford GT (this generation) is just another high dollar, low volume (ho-hum?) garage queen.  

(what I mean by Ho-Hum could be explained...maybe on an another thread)

But at the same time, I love how iconic the "classic"  front (mid)engined, high horsepower big V8 Vette has become. And I hope Chevrolet re-visits that in the future.  The Corvette was also a GREAT GT car. A "proper" V8 front engined bruiser of a cruiser GT car. And now, that is gone.  

THAT is why I say that Corvette needs SEVERAL models to properly compete with ANY European brand one on one.

To have a model for EVERY model that  Ferrari or Porsche has in their respective stables.  As is, well from the C7 and down, the Corvette had to do battle with a Boxter, Cayman, 911, 928, 918, Ferrari 488, Superfast, Laferrari....you get the idea 

Now with the C8, at least its mid-engined and the Z06 and Zora ZR-1 and the Z-51 (all the same car mind you) could handle all that without any of the Corvette hatin' BS from Europe (understandable) but from the USA too (like WTF is up with that???!!!)...

Disclaimer: almost a model for every Ferrari and/or Porsche  model...as many models as Corvette/Chevy/GM can handle to build and sell successfully at a profit without diminishing the brand... hey if that means only one model...OK

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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21 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

It will be interesting to see the reaction when Chevy unveils the C9---a Corvette EV CUV.  

Doubt it. And Corvette buyers are a totally different demographic than Mustang buyers, not even close. Now a Camaro EUV would be a better example, but this isn't in GM's plans now or in the future and with the kickback Ford is getting from purist 'Stang owners it makes it even less likely. They're leading the new BEV3 with Cadillac so they are going premium luxury on the new skateboard platform. 

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1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

 

Do those 'purists' actually even buy new cars, though ?    Or do they just wallow in nostalgia for the past...

Yes, there are many different generations of purists, so yes purists whether they be younger or older purists do buy the new cars.

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1 hour ago, ykX said:

These purist do buy cars.  They forced Porsche to bring back manual transmission for example.

Nope.

Porsche ENGINEERS realized that driving pleasure was lost. 

Porsche ENGINEERS realized that folk, NOT JUST PURISTS, want to experience the pleasure and joy of what Porsche cars were all about. 

Porsche ENGINEERS realized that its NOT all about big horsepower and epic performance numbers...

https://www.wired.com/2015/05/porsche-calls-end-horsepower-war/

They are planning to tone the horsepower down as well in the future. Keep on improving the 911 with numbers, but also keep a balanced 911 with less HP, less weight for the joys of driving.

I got but one link. I am too lazy to search up others, but I did read that awhile ago what Porsche wants to do with their future 911. And this article was from 2015...

Quote

 

PORSCHE'S 2015 911 GT3 is a pared-down, track-derived homage to what the German brand does best. It makes 475 hp and enough grip to liquify your kidneys. It redlines at a monster 9,000 rpm. It's faster than any GT3 before it.

And it's … fine. Very good, even. But not great. An astonishing piece of engineering, yes, but in the pantheon of hot Porsches, kind of a dead fish. Steering feel that isn't a patch on a 10-year-old 911's. A huge, uninviting cockpit. No manual transmission.

As a rule, new cars get faster, but not always better. This is partly because the automotive industry is a game of metrics. Cars are built by engineers, and engineering runs on numbers. Couple this with the needs of marketing, where bigger is always better, and you have a business driven to continually top itself. Each new car must be safer, quieter, more comfortable, and more capable than those before it.

When it comes to performance, the measuring stick traditionally has been horsepower. It's an easy thing for the public to process, a number that almost directly relates to potential velocity. Problem is, more power means more weight. And while the industry is working on ways to lighten the load (largely through the extensive use of carbon-fiber instead of steel), the scales aren't tipping lighter. Which in turn requires more engine output, to carry the same speed in a straight line.

 

This may be about to change. In an interview with England's *Car *magazine, Andreas Preuninger, Porsche's GT-car chief, said the marque's future range-toppers won't chase numbers.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

The people who are pissed are absolutely NOT EV SUV customers though so it's a moot point they're upset. 

How about Aston Martin making an SUV, Lamborghini making an SUV, Rolls Royce making an SUV, Maserati making an SUV, Ferrari making an SUV, Porsche making an SUV... all companies that were 100% cars and sports cars all the way(minus probably Rolls) and now they're making or have plans to make SUVs. 

All the luxury marques you mentioned were really forced to go with an SUV model(s) because the market demanded it. Ford already has SUV's with Ford and Lincoln so they're covered.

I think this Mach-E madness is more about a fear that the "muscle car icon" will lose it's image by becoming a line of different models like an SUV that is also an EV and the pony car V8 purists aren't good with that.  

Edited by USA-1
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34 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Doubt it. And Corvette buyers are a totally different demographic than Mustang buyers, not even close. 

And usually much older..typical Corvette owners tend to be over 65, I believe...

 

 

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2 hours ago, ykX said:

https://www.change.org/p/ford-motor-company-name-change-mustang-mach-e

I am curious how many eventually will sign.

Of course, no way Ford will change the name.  Still, will be pretty good indication how many Mustang fans are not happy with the name.

Just now over 1,700 have signed and it was still racking up pretty consistently, not sure if it's actual real time signatures. Could get interesting with all the greedy attorneys' out there.

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Just now, USA-1 said:

Just now over 1,700 have signed and it was still racking up pretty consistently, not sure if it's actual real time signatures. Could get interesting with all the greedy attorneys' out there.

1700 is nothing, though...would be interesting to know how many are owners of the current car..

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3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

And usually much older..typical Corvette owners tend to be over 65, I believe...

 

 

Average is around 60 right now and that's the average, but the C5 being a huge improvement over the C4 then the even more technologically advanced C6 and C7 GM brought in a lot of Gen. X'ers to Corvette like myself. C8 will bring in even more younger buyers to drop the average even more. 👍🏻 

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8 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

1700 is nothing, though...would be interesting to know how many are owners of the current car..

Right, but it just started and it was racking up about 1 sig. every 2 or 3 sec. Maybe we should all sign it to skew the outcome 😂

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About a Corvette SUV, EV or otherwise?

 

 

Quote

 

Leno:" My all time favorite thing  is that there is no Corvette SUV."

Tadge: "That is your favorite is it? Because I get that question all the time.  Why dont you do a Corvette SUV?  Porsche does it, why dont you do it"

Leno: "Well they have to do it."

Tadge:  "The Corvette has been successful I think, because we've stuck to our knit, you know, we've kept focused on what we do and people say we've deviated from what we do.  Its still a 2 passenger car, V8 powered, its the driving experience"

 

 

I do not think that Corvette engineers and Corvette marketing is ready for a Corvette SUV anytime soon.

There has been some people that are intrigued by a Corvette SUV...but that is where it ends. At least until Tadge is no longer the chief Corvette engineer...

But even with the Mustang naming fake outrage...

28 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

I think this Mach-E madness is more about a fear that the "muscle car icon" will lose it's image by becoming a line of different models like an SUV that is also an EV and the pony car V8 purists aren't good with that.  

Tadge even says it for the Corvette:

Quote

"The Corvette has been successful I think, because we've stuck to our knit, you know, we've kept focused on what we do and people say we've deviated from what we do.  Its still a 2 passenger car, V8 powered, its the driving experience"

The Mustang 2 door V8 powered coupe is still with us  with special editions coming out. In fact, the GT500 with close to 800 horsepower just got revealed too. So that argument falls apart.

 The Mustang is still sold and NOT going anywhere...

 

 

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2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

The Mustang 2 door V8 powered coupe is still with us  with special editions coming out. In fact, the GT500 with close to 800 horsepower just got revealed too. So that argument falls apart.

 The Mustang is still sold and NOT going anywhere...

 

I was been facetious about a Corvette EV CUV..but you never know, we live in interesting times of change.

I wouldn't mind having another Mustang sooner or later...maybe a convertible, definitely a V8 w/ manual.    But I also like the idea of a Challenger w/ V8 and manual. 

Edited by Robert Hall
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1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

About a Corvette SUV, EV or otherwise?

 

 

 

I do not think that Corvette engineers and Corvette marketing is ready for a Corvette SUV anytime soon.

There has been some people that are intrigued by a Corvette SUV...but that is where it ends. At least until Tadge is no longer the chief Corvette engineer...

But even with the Mustang naming fake outrage...

Tadge even says it for the Corvette:

The Mustang 2 door V8 powered coupe is still with us  with special editions coming out. In fact, the GT500 with close to 800 horsepower just got revealed too. So that argument falls apart.

 The Mustang is still sold and NOT going anywhere...

 

 

Yep, I caught that too..."because they had to." Porsche just like other luxury car and luxury sports car marques had to build an SUV to align with the market demand.

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1 minute ago, USA-1 said:

Right, but it just started and it was racking up about 1 sig. every 2 or 3 sec. Maybe we should all sign it to skew the outcome 😂

Don Cherry, had 180 000 votes in just 2 days...

I dont know how many he has now.  Franky I dont care, but...

Remember this from a smaller country. Granted, Canadians are probably more passionate about hockey than there are passionate Mustang  purists around. But still...1700 does seem miniscule.

 

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Just now, oldshurst442 said:

Don Cherry, had 180 000 votes in just 2 days...

I dont know how many he has now.  Franky I dont care, but...

Remember this from a smaller country. Granted, Canadians are probably more passionate about hockey than there are passionate Mustang  purists around. But still...1700 does seem miniscule.

 

Yeah, you Canadians and your hockey is quite a stark contrast to anything else really! LOL!! 😜

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I used to work in a small company in Denver that was owned and majority staffed by Canadians from Saskatchewan.  Hockey and hard drinking were their two main passions...it was a work hard, party hard place..had a great 4 years there..

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On 11/18/2019 at 6:26 PM, ocnblu said:

75392750_10217549944393883_3453453980032565248_n.jpg

😂 Never gonna happen with Cadillac around. Porsche and others had to add an SUV per market demand.

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6 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

😂 Never gonna happen with Cadillac around. Porsche and others had to add an SUV per market demand.

GM could use a Cayenne competitor... 

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1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

Average is around 60 right now and that's the average, but the C5 being a huge improvement over the C4 then the even more technologically advanced C6 and C7 GM brought in a lot of Gen. X'ers to Corvette like myself. C8 will bring in even more younger buyers to drop the average even more. 👍🏻 

That Corvette Jay Leno/Tadge  video  said that they sold more than expected C7s in the Japanese market. Australians it seems are salivating for the  C8 as GM will be doing right hand drive C8s for the UK, Japan and Australia. 

The C7 broke new ground for new buyers.  I agree with you that the C8 will fetch even more. And not just with the younger buyers market criteria.  But buyers from all walks of life in all kinds of marketing criteria. The C8 will get the Euro snob, will get the Japanese sports car enthusiast. The C8 will get the guy that collects Ferraris and drives his Ferraris once a year, who daily drives another Euro snob car, but now he gets a chance  to actually enjoy DAILY DRIVING a mid-engine exotic-like sports car with no fear of it breaking down or getting it dinged with all the mid-engine car snobbery with his VETTE!!!  The C8 will get Porschefiles too.  

I hope Corvette could keep all these new buyers. That means that the C8 should NOT be a disappointment in the quality control area...

 

 

 

Edited by oldshurst442

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49 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Yep, I caught that too..."because they had to." Porsche just like other luxury car and luxury sports car marques had to build an SUV to align with the market demand.

Porsche had to add SUVs because they going insolvent on the sports cars.
No one was demanding a Porsche SUV, but thankfully for Porsche, they're taking up the volume slack in a big way.

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      +4.1
      Wheelbase
      in
      107.4
      106.3
      +1.1
      Track, front
      in
      63.2
      61.4
      +1.8
      Track, rear
      in
      63.2
      61.4
      +1.8
      Interior dimensions*
      Max. front headroom
      in
      40.8
      40.0
      +0.8
      Headroom, rear
      in
      38.1
      38.4
      -0.3
      Legroom, front
      in
      41.1
      41.9
      -0.8
      Legroom, rear
      in
      38.4
      33.9
      +4.5
      Elbow room, front
      in
      57.3
      56.0
      +1.3
      Elbow room, rear
      in
      57.3
      55.5
      +1.8
      Shoulder room, front
      in
      55.9
      54.8
      +1.1
      Shoulder room, rear
      in
      54.8
      53.1
      +1.7
      Load compartment width, max.
      in
      50.1
      46.7
      +3.4
      Load compartment depth, max.
      in
      56.0
      54.9
      +1.1
      Eff. width trunk opening
      in
      41.3
      41.1
      +0.2
      Trunk capacity (VDA)
      cu-ft
      15.4
      14.9
      +0.5

      View full article
    • By Drew Dowdell
      Mercedes-Benz went the unconventional route and debuted their new GLA SUV completely online this morning. The new GLA comes on a new platform and changes up the dimensions a bit to improve interior space.  Overall length is down 0.6 inches, but height has increased 4.1 inches, and wheelbase is up 1.1 inches while width is up 1.2 inches. This translates to some minor improvements in most, but not all, interior dimensions.  (Dimensions chart on Page 2)
      The GLA initially will come in three forms, the GLA 250, GLA 250 4Matic, and AMG GLA 35.  The 250 and 250 4matic some with the same powertrain, a 2.0-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder producing 221 horsepower at 5,500 RPM and 258 lb-ft of torque at 1,620 - 4,000 RPM.  Power is sent to the wheels via an 8-speed DCT.
      The AMG GLA 35 comes with a 2.0-liter 4-cylinder with 302 horsepower at 5,800 RPM and 295 lb-ft of torque at 3,000 - 4,000 RPM. And uses a modified version of the 8-speed DCT. Zero to 60 is estimated at 5.0 seconds.
      GLA 250 models equipped with 4Matic come with an Off-Road Engineering Package as standard.  It is an extra drive mode that adapts the characteristics of the 4Matic system and changes power delivery and ABS intervention.  The gauge cluster will present an animation of gradient, inclination angle, and technical settings to help the driver through the situation. 
      4Matic has been updated from being hydraulically activated to electro-mechanically activated.  In normal mode, the system splits torque 80:20 front:rear.  Sport mode changes that ratio to 70:30, while off-road mode moves it to 50:50. Being electro-mechanically operated allows the 4Matic system to be more efficient by not having to drive hydraulic pumps. 
      The GLA 250 is available with a host of driver assistance packages. They include:
      Active Distance Assist DISTRONIC with the functions: braking for stationary vehicles, extended automatic restarting in traffic jams in conjunction with Active Parking Assist and navigation, activation of "Gliding" in the ECO drive mode, Active Steering Assist with the functions: Active Emergency Braking Assist – with automatic unlocking and placement of an SOS call to the Mercedes-Benz emergency call center after the vehicle has come to a stop (depending on country) Active Lane Change Assist in conjunction with navigation, Emergency lane function: in freeway traffic jams at speeds below approx. 37 mph. Active Speed Limit Assist with reaction to changes in speed limits in conjunction with Traffic Sign Assist, Route-based speed adjustment when approaching bends, roundabouts, toll stations, T-junctions and before leaving highways – reduction of vehicle speed when encountering the end of a traffic jam, in conjunction with navigation, Evasive Steering Assist, Active Lane Keeping Assist, Active Blind Spot Assist, Active Brake Assist with cross-traffic function, PRE-SAFE PLUS: can detect a potential rear impact. If the danger of a collision persists, the system can also firmly apply the brakes of the stationary vehicle, minimizing the risk of whiplash injuries by reducing the forward jolt caused by an impact from the rear. The interior of the GLA is quite similar to the A-Class sedan. Mercedes MBUX is there and can be activated by voice simply by saying "Hey Mercedes". 
      AMG 35
      The GLA AMG 35 gets an AMG tuned suspension, including an optional ride control system that allows the driver to select between three different drive modes.  A high performance braking system with 13.8 inch disks up front and 13.0 inch disks in the rear is included. There is a speed-sensitive variable ratio steering that changes the amount of assistance offered at different speeds. The AMG also gets a special exhaust system with a gas flap to change the sound dynamics of the car depending on mode, engine speed, and engine load. 
      The exterior of the AMG GLA 35 gets a different front fascia from the regular GLA 250, fitting in with the rest of the AMG lineup. 
      The GLA 250 goes on sale Summer of 2020 with the AMG following after that.
       
       
      New GLA
      Predecessor
      Diff.
      Exterior dimensions
      Length
      in
      173.6
      174.2
      -0.6
      Width
      in
      72.2
      71.0
      +1.2
      Width incl. exterior mirrors
      in
      79.5
      79.6
      -0.1
      Height
      in
      63.4
      59.3
      +4.1
      Wheelbase
      in
      107.4
      106.3
      +1.1
      Track, front
      in
      63.2
      61.4
      +1.8
      Track, rear
      in
      63.2
      61.4
      +1.8
      Interior dimensions*
      Max. front headroom
      in
      40.8
      40.0
      +0.8
      Headroom, rear
      in
      38.1
      38.4
      -0.3
      Legroom, front
      in
      41.1
      41.9
      -0.8
      Legroom, rear
      in
      38.4
      33.9
      +4.5
      Elbow room, front
      in
      57.3
      56.0
      +1.3
      Elbow room, rear
      in
      57.3
      55.5
      +1.8
      Shoulder room, front
      in
      55.9
      54.8
      +1.1
      Shoulder room, rear
      in
      54.8
      53.1
      +1.7
      Load compartment width, max.
      in
      50.1
      46.7
      +3.4
      Load compartment depth, max.
      in
      56.0
      54.9
      +1.1
      Eff. width trunk opening
      in
      41.3
      41.1
      +0.2
      Trunk capacity (VDA)
      cu-ft
      15.4
      14.9
      +0.5
    • By Drew Dowdell
      The first product to come from Ford's investment into startup automaker Rivian will likely be a Lincoln SUV due to arrive sometime in 2022.  The vehicle will be all-wheel drive and compete against Rivian's own R1S which is priced at $72,500.  The models will share Rivian's skateboard platform, a design that combines the motors, batteries, controls and suspension into a single unit that the body can be built around.  
      The Rivian R1S is a three-row EV crossover with a range of up to 410 miles and will be built in Normal Illinois at a former Mitsubishi plant. It is expected to go into production sometime in 2021.
      There will also be a compact Lincoln EV crossover coming for 2021 that could be built on the same platform that the Ford Mustang Mach-E rides on. 
      EV sales have been tepid so far in the US, but Lincoln is banking on the EVs to be bigger sellers in the Chinese market. 

      View full article
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