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Drew Dowdell

Cadillac News: Cadillac CT6 DHam Production to End in January

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GM could be thinking that if they need cars in the future, they could bring them back quickly from China.

My gut tells me that the BEV3 platform very well could support a wide range of EV cars as well as CUVs and trucks.

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10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

GM could be thinking that if they need cars in the future, they could bring them back quickly from China.

My gut tells me that the BEV3 platform very well could support a wide range of EV cars as well as CUVs and trucks.

Doesn't matter how wide the range of EV models is... ppl are still indifferent to them.  Or even downright rude.

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Or, they could be making $10 grand or even $25 grand on average per car.

If they had $10k margin they wouldn't be killing the car.  That is pickup truck margin because they have 1 platform for Silverado, Sierra, Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban, Escalade and high price tags to go with the volume.

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3 hours ago, riviera74 said:

That may be true on the CT6, but GM could solve that problem with a new RWD Impala/Caprice STAT, along with an upgraded Camaro.

Except none of those are SUVs. Something like 70% of the market is SUV/truck and probably more for American car companies.  Camaro sales are tanking, Impala and all the other large sedans are tanking.  

Cadillac should be building blacking V8 SUVs, that would outsell any V8 powered sedan they could come up with. 

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28 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Doesn't matter how wide the range of EV models is... ppl are still indifferent to them.  Or even downright rude.

I will as you expected DISAGREE with you as a wide range of options is EXACTLY what is Missing. More people are wanting less maintenance and easier fueling than you think, the options are just not there yet. It will be and I suspect we will see great strides in EV sales in 2023 as more EV options come online.

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1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Doesn't matter how wide the range of EV models is... ppl are still indifferent to them.  Or even downright rude.

 

44 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I will as you expected DISAGREE with you as a wide range of options is EXACTLY what is Missing. More people are wanting less maintenance and easier fueling than you think, the options are just not there yet. It will be and I suspect we will see great strides in EV sales in 2023 as more EV options come online.

What Dfelt said...

And people are NOT indifferent to EVs in MY neck of the woods.

I said about 8 months ago that I see 5 different Tesla Model 3s each and every day here.  

Well, 8 months later, like as of now, that figure went up. I see at least 7-8 DIFFERENT Model 3s each and every day on a SHORT commute to work. And no, the Tesla store is no where near where I live and work. There is only one Tesla store in case you are asking...

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Back to the thread...but with an EV flavour.

I think GM is cutting all these sedans because so they could focus full force on bringing out EVs.  Barra said that she wants GM to be the world's leader in EVs...

The 2.3 billion dollar venture with LG Chem  and a creation of 1100 jobs while closing down ICE factories and laying off ICE workers should signal to all of us what is going on with GM...

Killing off the CT6, waisting billions on it and the Blackwing while telling us that the Blackwing costs money is just a smoke screen.   

I think, they are killing the Blackwing NOT because it costs money...I think GM brass want to distance Cadillac from the internal combustion engine as much as they can.  The Blackwing is a start. Its a "gas guzzling V8". It does not look good with PR with EV sheeple to have a brand new gas guzzling V8 in the stable when in a couple of years, an onslaught of Cadillac EVs are gonna launch... 

I have come to this conclusion after reading comments from product launches from GM.  The C8 and the Blackwing CT6. Also Autoline Detroit...

There are MANY comments made by EV trolls, that diss the V8s...or even the rotary engine.

They say all kinds of dumb things such as "why invest in ICE when electrics are the future?"

Or 

"dino tech that sucks gas  spews emissions"

Or

"0-60 in xx seconds, quarter mile yy seconds?  HA!  Stuopid GM for wasting billions on outdated technology...Telsa Model XYZ is faster...blah blah blah..."

 

My personal opinion is this...

Its a damned shame that GM spent billions to finally create a SEDAN worthy of the Cadillac badge, (big, brawny, V8, RWD sedan) only to kill it, yet again with this pattern, only to invest billions more on something that may be just a pipe dream, because even though in MY neck of the woods, people seems to want EVs, there are other woods dar from where I am, that are dead set against EVs...

And Cadillac, whether Barra wants Cadillac to be a leader in EVs, and I have no doubt that Cadillac can and WILL produce something to embarrass Tesla and now the Mustang Mach-E, Cadillac is STILL all about the big badass V8 car.  The Blackwing is that...   

 

 

 

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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@oldshurst442 +1,000,000

I also have been doing some serious sole searching in regards to the Blackwing, the loss of an Escalade V and why oh why is GM doing this when they do not have an EV out yet to challenge Tesla or anyone else.

Building space so that upon the Escalade EV V and others, they will be considered by those that are already thinking Green or have already thought green but are not buying as what they want is not there. 

EV's I suspect will do a Hockey Stick Sales spike once choices are available. Seems 2023 is going to be the big year to prove me right or wrong.

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Just now, ocnblu said:

say what

Many corporations today, rely on shytty social media and even shyttier comment sections (I have come to an understanding, corporations have been doing this kind of marketing for at least a decade now...) to see where public perception is heading...)

Focus groups and internet comment sections seem to direct CEOs nowadays on what and how products are to be launched...

Its just a theory that I have.

Oh...I KNOW that corporations have social media marketing personnel on their payroll...and I also know that they rely on the internet for data...

GM on the C8 for instance, when they launched the C8 in July, Tadge DID mention how that online reveal had a million views, or whatever the figure was and how for the days following, the Chevy website nearly crashed because they had a record amount of visitors playing with the C8 price build...

So its kinda logical that these internet marketing people also look at the comments sections to get a feel of what folk are saying about GM's image and the C8 and V8s and EVs and shyte!!! 

Call me crazy, but I KNOW I am unto something...

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14 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

say what

Reading is fundamental. Not understanding why  EVs could possibly succeed is just mental. 

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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Except none of those are SUVs. Something like 70% of the market is SUV/truck and probably more for American car companies.  Camaro sales are tanking, Impala and all the other large sedans are tanking.  

Cadillac should be building blacking V8 SUVs, that would outsell any V8 powered sedan they could come up with. 

They already have a V8 powered SUV.  Now if you want to make the case that the BlackWing V8 belongs in an Escalade, be my guest.

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8 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

They already have a V8 powered SUV.  Now if you want to make the case that the BlackWing V8 belongs in an Escalade, be my guest.

As much as SMK thinks everything needs to be turbo'd and dual over head cams, etc. etc. etc. GM could if they really wanted to just drop in their lovely supercharged V8 into the Escalade and call it a V and be done for the day. People would pay a decent $25K more for a current Escalade with that motor and have it called a V.

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3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If they had $10k margin they wouldn't be killing the car.  That is pickup truck margin because they have 1 platform for Silverado, Sierra, Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban, Escalade and high price tags to go with the volume.

Pick-ups don't have platforms, and BTW; there are far more chassis’ under the Silverado than any car or SUV.

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Something like 70% of the market is SUV/truck and probably more for American car companies.

Nope- foreign brands are just as heavily weighted. Porsche is 72% SUVs by volume.

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1 hour ago, dfelt said:

As much as SMK thinks everything needs to be turbo'd and dual over head cams, etc. etc. etc. GM could if they really wanted to just drop in their lovely supercharged V8 into the Escalade and call it a V and be done for the day. People would pay a decent $25K more for a current Escalade with that motor and have it called a V.

Should have done an Escalade-V years ago.  FCA sells garbage with a Hellcat engine for $75k or whatever they cost.  What would otherwise be fleet sale rental cars sold for nearly triple the price.  Cadillac could easily get $125k for an Escalade-V and all they would have to do is put on a supercharger, bigger brakes, beef up the suspension, and add some trim or  V badges to spice it up.   
 

I also think Cadillac could put a Blackwing V8 in an SUV the size and weight of an XT5.  
 

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

They already have a V8 powered SUV.  Now if you want to make the case that the BlackWing V8 belongs in an Escalade, be my guest.

A slow V8 powered SUV.  Cadillac should have at least 1 SUV that is sub 4 second 0-60 and probably should have 2 but they won’t attract enough buyers anyway so 1 will do the job.

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Pick-ups don't have platforms, and BTW; there are far more chassis’ under the Silverado than any car or SUV.

Nope- foreign brands are just as heavily weighted. Porsche is 72% SUVs by volume.

Chassis, platform, architecture, whatever you want to call the mechanical running gear.  That is the expensive part, you need to spread that around and CT6 doesn’t have that luxury.

Lamborghini is over 50% SUV at this point, it is ridiculous it that is the way it is now.  That is why Cadillac should have been building Omega platform SUVs rather than a full size sedan with a turbo 4 engine CT6 that was doomed to fail from the start.

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14 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

All companies are in the business to make money but what sets some of them apart is the non-stop bean counting yet still wasting money and R&D (see the money spent on developing the CT6). Furthermore, RWD or FWD, at least the Aviator has real engine options with power to boot. Lincoln has somehow done what Cadillac should have already been doing (and no I am not a fan of Lincoln or the Aviator). What’s the XT6 rocking bedsides being sat upon the wrong platform (again the bean counting by forgoing the Omega platform)? That 3.6L that’s in just about everything else GM makes? The point here is that you can make money and still act like you give a damn about the little things. GM has a mixed record with that, at best.

Damn True.

GM decides things on the fly like a hooker on Saturday night...... 😮 

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I for one would like to see what ultimately happens with the CT6; Cadillac only announced its production at D-H would end, and they’ve moved a model lines’ production to another plant before. 

I would immediately have voted to not do the CT4 and put the CT5 & 6 together in LGR. And there’s room for all 3 lines at LGR as it is ( nevermind there being room at D-H).


CT6 has been a great success in it’s segment, after a long break of Cadillac not fielding a model there. 

In some months, audi can only sell about 120 A8’s, and that model’s been around for decades.

Edited by balthazar
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Cadillac sold 17,200 CT6 in China last year.  So question is if that is enough to keep production going, and build another 10,000 or so there to export to the USA.   I don't know that 30,000 units a year is enough to support a platform, in fact I am pretty certain that it isn't.  We aren't talking about exotic car pricing here where low volume is okay.

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Dozens of unique vehicles sell less than 30K per year. Volume is immaterial, profit is the prime consideration. But even then:
Luckily, Cadillac, and in turn; General Motors, produces dozen & dozens & dozens of other models.

Tesla only builds like 11K Model S per year. Course; they don't make a profit... but they're still building the thing.

We've read some wags claim that 'Chevy doesn't make any money; too many low margin models' and 'Buick sales are slowing every year; it can't be making a profit' and 'Cadillac doesn't sell 2 million units/year; therefore they can't be making a profit'.

Solid, disconnected thinking there, that.

Gee, I don't think GMC is making $11 billion in profit all by itself.

Edited by balthazar
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Its gots to be all those residual checks that GM cashes in from movie royalties...

The Chevy Suburban just got its Hollywood Walk of Fame Star a couple of days ago....

It is said that the Suburban has had a 60 year career and been in over 1750 movies...so...11 billion dollars/per year profit

The Chevrolet Suburban became the first vehicle ever awarded an Award of Excellence star at Hollywood & Highland, recognizing Suburban for its 67-year career in Hollywood film and television.

 

 The year GM went bankrupt, there was a conspiracy against GM and Hollywood stopped re-running  Smokey and the Bandit, The A-Team, Knight Rider...

 

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seeing the article on the internet about finding an old unconfiscated EV1 and relearning what GM did to crush all the EV1's, 

and seeing how Tesla has cornered a good chunk of the EV market now for itself without GM getting serious about creating a real competition to the Tesla products (when they could easily have wiped Teslas ass off the floor had they invested some real product dollars into EV...)

and seeing how politically EV's seem to be well received as saviors when really there are plenty of ill side effects for the idea of EV mass propulsion (not to mention no useful or convenient infrastructure)

and seeing how GM's electric cars are always small or niche models (Volt, Bolt, ELR, pickup hybrids, CT6)

this talk of Cadillac going deep into EV's is all just a smokescreen.  A smokescreen to cover for why they didn't invest in new competitive products in the Johan era.  Truth is Cadillac is caught with their pants down, and like the rest of GM wants to appear green, on top of technology, and want to somehow be in the EV mix, at least in terms of social media buzz.

so back to the EV1....that was the 90's already.  A quarter decade and GM has still not nor has plans to produce any significant game changing EV that will be adopted by the car buying public en masse, that is affordable for many, and in 50 years will serve as a bellweather in the sales of vehicles in this world and nation.  A point that your kids, when they are grandkids can say, "My parents had the Model T electric" (you get what i mean when i say that).  

Really all the manufacturers, none have taken EV out of social media curiosity or low volume high price lux car sales and smashed the mainstream barrier to truly change and create a demand for what we drive in America and the world to push for real everyday EV's.  Sure, we have Prius and Leaf etc.  But the Mustang Mach E might be the only vehicle that really represents something that might impact the future.

I mean, global oil still has pull, right?   That's partly why we still drive oil mostly.  And battery tech is still for the few for the cost it is.  Mining is an issue.  Power grid investment is an issue.  Electric power tends to be controlled by government and utility cartels, electric power buying and selling really will never be much of a capitalistic ritual of a free market.  That is a huge problem.

I filled my car with 300 miles of range in about 120 seconds the other day at Costco.  I still don't see matching that feat any time in the next 20 years where you literally can pick any station everywhere and do that.

I don't see any of GM including Cadillac coming to market with a game changing EV or line of EV's within 5-10 years yet.  It's all bullshit.  GM could wipe the industry's ass if they wanted to but they won't.  Cadillac's dealer base needs revenue and customers to keep their doors open.  They won't risk it by changing their whole product line to EV nor should they.  So please, apart from one or two models that may hit and sell a few each year to be cute, please do not believe the crap about GM or Cadillac being a huge EV company.

So in the meantime, build those Blackwing v8's and turbo 6's and stuff them in as many Cadillacs as you can.  That is where you can still make bank.  Along with real passenger and cargo space.  ANd flip your middle finger to the feds in the process and their regulations.

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Well Tesla outsells Cadillac so maybe EV isn’t such a bad idea.  And Model 3 performance is faster than a Blackwing V8.

Edited by smk4565

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It's the only one that really does sell decently (well; the model 3), but since it makes no money, it's a shame they've come this far but are going to have to close the corporation down.

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3 hours ago, balthazar said:

it's a shame

Oh it's so turrible

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I love when American car lovers root for an American car company that actually builds cars in America to fail, while still cheering on the "American" car companies that are shipping production to Mexico and China.

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