Subaru News: Subaru Plans To Go Electric-Only By the Mid-2030s

[William Maley]

Today in Tokyo, Subaru put forth an ambitious plan. By the mid-2030s, the Japanese automaker will only sell electric vehicles worldwide. This announcement comes as no surprise as both China and Europe have announced stricter emissions regulations that will be coming in the near future.

But to reach that goal, Subaru will be working with Toyota (which owns a 8.7 percent stake in Subaru) on developing both hybrid and electric vehicles. In a statement, Subaru executives said work has started on a “strong hybrid” vehicle using Toyota technology. No other details were provided. The two are also working on full-electric vehicles that will launch sometime this decade. These vehicles will play a key role in Subaru's goal of having 40 percent of vehicles sold be all-electric and electrified cars by 2030.

Despite this change in direction for powertrains, Subaru executive's stress their vehicles will retain the key traits that have their vehicles unique.

“Although we’re using Toyota technology, we want to make hybrids that are distinctly Subaru,” said Subaru's Chief Technology Officer Tetsuo Onuki.

“It’s not only about reducing CO2 emissions. We need to further improve vehicle safety and the performance of our all-wheel drive.”

Source: Reuters, Autoblog

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[David]

Very cool, I can see them being a big success with their Green based buyers. Should do them well. 

[balthazar]

Wow; that’s a long, safe ways off!

[smk4565]

I good idea and I think others will be on the same path.  I think ICE cars will be a rare breed by 2040.  

[ocnblu]

There's no way to make EVs retain Subaru character.  There's no way for any manufacturer to maintain any sort of brand character when the car is powered by electric motors.... so much sameness.  It's like modern NASCAR... dull, bland same-old same-old.

[Robert Hall]

I think the character of a brand is more a result of the styling and design inside and out, features, performance, driving feel, etc than the propulsion system.  Whether it’s ICE or BEV, as long as it performs within expected parameters for normal use cases, it should be fine.   
 

And as Tesla has shown, an EV can perform very well and be a practical real world vehicle. 

Remember, these are mainstream appliances that regular consumers drive, not something for car enthusiasts. 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Robert Hall

[smk4565]

50 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

There's no way to make EVs retain Subaru character.  There's no way for any manufacturer to maintain any sort of brand character when the car is powered by electric motors.... so much sameness.  It's like modern NASCAR... dull, bland same-old same-old.

But it will have all wheel drive.

[smk4565]

32 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I think the character of a brand is more a result of the styling and design inside and out, features, performance, driving feel, etc than the propulsion system.  Whether it’s ICE or BEV, as long as it performs within expected parameters for normal use cases, it should be fine.   
 

And as Tesla has shown, an EV can perform very well and be a practical real world vehicle. 

Remember, these are mainstream appliances that regular consumers drive, not something for car enthusiasts. 

Subaru might be an appliance, but Tesla's aren't.  The Model S can win a drag race against an Aventador.  And we are in the infancy stages of electric cars and 125 years into evolution of gas cars.  I think when the next gen battery tech gets here, EV's will smash gas cars.  Take the Cybertruck for example, it is faster than a Porsche 911, and it tows more than an F150.  And that is their first effort, they will improve upon that.

[Robert Hall]

I was referring to Subarus. A very small percentage of their product line (the 3 letter models—BRZ, WRX, STI) are performance vehicles.  For mainstream appliances, I think a BEV approach will be advantageous.  Less maintenance, cleaner, more efficient, better performance.   Regular consumers don’t open the hood, whether it is ICE or BEV would have little meaning to most drivers I suspect.  

Edited January 21, 2020 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

And All Wheel Drive that will shame ICE powered cars.

 

EV Subaru, EV Jeep, EV GMC and GMC HUMMER and Toyota EV 4Runner, EV Land Rover and any other off road, snow conquering electric vehicle will have this feature...

And if electric wheel motor hubs get perfected, then ALL EVs will be able to do this...

[Robert Hall]

42 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

But it will have all wheel drive.

And still be popular with dogs.  

[David]

30 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Subaru might be an appliance, but Tesla's aren't.  The Model S can win a drag race against an Aventador.  And we are in the infancy stages of electric cars and 125 years into evolution of gas cars.  I think when the next gen battery tech gets here, EV's will smash gas cars.  Take the Cybertruck for example, it is faster than a Porsche 911, and it tows more than an F150.  And that is their first effort, they will improve upon that.

I agree with you that Solid State Batteries will change the EV game as we are at the start compared to the 125 years of ICE evolution.

ERROR, Cybertruck is NOT able to tow more than the F150.

Ford has already proven that their Rivian based F150 can tow 1.25 million pounds and the Cybertruck is only rated at 300,000 pounds. 

Big difference between them, right now Ford and Rivian for the win at this point.

[balthazar]

• Uhhh, the updated rating for the "cybertruck" is 14,000 lbs, or 286,000 lbs less than initially claimed.
The Ford F-350 is good for somewhere in the 35,000 lb area. I think that might be more than double the Tesla "truck".

• It strikes me that instantaneous torque is the opposite of one would want in slippery/icy/snowy conditions.
That's kinda why cars don't drag race when the strip is wet.

[ocnblu]

No boxer engine noise = no Subaru.  Plain and simple.  Silly statement from Moltar re:  "little meaning" between ICE and BEV.  There is PLENTY of "meaning" between the two.  In the case of Subaru, one is intrinsic to the Subaru zeitgeist, the other is completely devoid of any individuality.  BEV are "cars" with all traces of soul cut out.

[balthazar]

To be honest, ^ only matters to a distinct minority of people. MOST consumers don’t care about that in the least.

By far the #1 obstacles to widespread EV sales is uncompetitive pricing. When a kia soul is $18K and an EV soul is $38K, you’ve got a huge consumer problem.

[Robert Hall]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

No boxer engine noise = no Subaru.  Plain and simple.  Silly statement from Moltar re:  "little meaning" between ICE and BEV.  There is PLENTY of "meaning" between the two.  In the case of Subaru, one is intrinsic to the Subaru zeitgeist, the other is completely devoid of any individuality.  BEV are "cars" with all traces of soul cut out.

I doubt if more than 1% of drivers care about ‘boxer engine noise’.  In a daily driver, engine noise is something that is usually an irritant or annoyance..   A smooth and quiet power unit is best for most real world use cases.   We are talking about practical daily drivers, not muscle cars or Ferraris.    

I like a rumbly V8 or other performance engine in a performance car, but in a practical daily use vehicle I want smooth and silent so I can enjoy the sound of my music or podcasts, not mechanical noise. (I do wish automakers could make HVAC fans quieter). 

Edited January 21, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

^ Engine noise as an irritant or annoyance is also likely true for 1% of drivers.  I'd go so far to say that a far greater percentage of drivers find their engine noise enjoyable, rather than annoying. The vast majority, tho, are indifferent. Engine noise is not driving anyone to switch to an EV- that's a fallacy.

Check out your own ride, at around 20 MPH and above (barring a performance car/exhaust), all you hear inside or out at cruising speed is wind & tire noise. I've been outside on my lawn on my 25 MPH street and looked up to see a Tesla going by- sounds exactly like any other type of motive powered vehicle. It's no coincidence that the feds are working on instituting artificial EV noise at speeds UNDER about 19 MPH.

[Robert Hall]

Yeah, I don’t care about outside noise, it’s quiet inside I like.  Tire and wind noise is unavoidable, but can be minimized.  

[balthazar]

I think -under CAFE pressure- it already has been. Rolling resistance & aerodynamics are basically at the 98th percentile. Pedestrian cars have triple door seals and laminated side glass. Don't expect noticeable improvements going forward.

[frogger]

5 hours ago, ocnblu said:

No boxer engine noise = no Subaru.  Plain and simple.  Silly statement from Moltar re:  "little meaning" between ICE and BEV.  There is PLENTY of "meaning" between the two.  In the case of Subaru, one is intrinsic to the Subaru zeitgeist, the other is completely devoid of any individuality.  BEV are "cars" with all traces of soul cut out.

"Subie rumble" is distinct with unequal length headers with the Subaru boxer 4 cylinder.  Only the STI has the unequal length headers from factory now.  Equal headers are better in most regards (aside from the sound preference).

 

 

 

[loki]

17 hours ago, balthazar said:

Wow; that’s a long, safe ways off!

isn't only ~3 typical product cycles?

[frogger]

Still the season to be jolly when there is Subie weather..
 

 

[surreal1272]

12 hours ago, ocnblu said:

No boxer engine noise = no Subaru.  Plain and simple.  Silly statement from Moltar re:  "little meaning" between ICE and BEV.  There is PLENTY of "meaning" between the two.  In the case of Subaru, one is intrinsic to the Subaru zeitgeist, the other is completely devoid of any individuality.  BEV are "cars" with all traces of soul cut out.

Yes because people like yourself have been lined outside the doors of your local Subaru to get your hands on one of those boxer engine cars. Going EV will just kill that notion I guess. 

[balthazar]

I think blu is more of a Chevy boxer engine fan.

[Robert Hall]

Chevy Boxer...Corvair.  I wonder if any one has ever swapped a Subaru boxer into a Corvair...

[oldshurst442]

5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Chevy Boxer...Corvair.  I wonder if any one has ever swapped a Subaru boxer into a Corvair...

 

 

I couldnt find a Subie swap, I wasnt trying too hard either, but I did find a Porsche 911 swap

 

But like always...a ton of LS swaps...

 

Even front engine conversions

 

 

[balthazar]

How about a Torvair ~

 

[daves87rs]

I like the “not jump on it right now” EV move. Grow into it, I say....

Still think there will be a few ICE Subies left,  for the diehards....

[frogger]

There have been some STI powered Porsche swaps.

 

[oldshurst442]

What's more  blasphemous?

A Porsche  with a Subaru boxer 6 swap?        (I googled  quickly and I saw a handful of  944s,  one 911 and even 1 Beetle with a Subie swap)

A Corvair with a Porsche engine swap?

A 911 with an LS swap?

A front engine conversion Corvair?

 

I personally think all those swaps are awesome.  They all make sense and just augment the aura of the car in question that much more.  OK...an LS swap is no longer unique. One could say its cliché at this point.  But sometimes, an LS swap just makes sense. A 911 with an LS swap just magnifies the 911's characteristics that much more.   ( A turbo 911 (993),  is a beast, and AWD helps calm the beast down, but an LS swapped 993 without AWD just augments that beast mode times a million...and the LS is more or less the same external size as that Porsche 6 with the turbos making a tad more power but that much more torque.   A hater will only see Chevy small block V8 rather than see that the "personality" of the 911 with a LS is the same as a turbo 993 911, but with more chest hair...)

The only one I have a problem with is a front engined conversion of a Corvair.  That messes with the Corvair's original intent.  It augments nothing. It changes everything. 

So....to get to a point, tying this thread of it being about an EV Subie.  I dont think an electric Subie WRX STi changes what a WRX STi is all about with enthusiasts.  An EV Subie WRX STi with 4 motors like that Rivian truck, but tuned and softwared to be a rally race car for the street, like it is now actually, more or less, rather than offroad/wildlife life style truck is good by me. 

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by oldshurst442

[frogger]