Jump to content
William Maley

Genesis News: 2021 Genesis G80 Packs New Styling, Two Turbo Engines

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

This thread has been hijacked anyway talking about Mercedes more than Genesis...on TWO occasions. 

49 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

*sigh*  slow news day

So to derail it further and perhaps in a more interesting topic... 

Not really a slow news day. 

Delta airlines is retiring all of its Boeing 777s.  That is a big blow to Boeing as Delta is also going to replace their fleet of 777s with  relying on their Airbus A350-900s with their longer routes and for their smaller routes with the Airbus  A330.  Delta says that both Airbuses are more fuel efficient and cost effective than the 777. 

 

Edited by oldshurst442
  • Haha 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/9/2020 at 6:44 PM, smk4565 said:

I don’t think an extra year of warranty is going to sway any buyers on a luxury car.

But maybe the new (butter-)face of the F/L E Class will...

 

On 5/10/2020 at 9:20 PM, smk4565 said:

My comparison with Telluride is only that the Telluride has a nice interior, the Stinger doesn't and they come from the same company.  Telluride is best in class interior, the Stinger is probably the worst interior you can get for a car of that price point.

The materials for the interior in the Stinger is better than in the Telluride.

Also, unlike what Kia NA had expected, it's the higher-priced 3.3TT V6 Stinger that sells.

 

On 5/10/2020 at 7:39 PM, smk4565 said:

Now if they are back to 318 dealerships, that is about what Lexus has, BMW and Mercedes have about 350-360.  So Genesis isn't that out numbered and yet their sales volume is very low.  Mostly that low volume is no crossovers, but crossovers have been on the rise for 10 years.  Why on earth did they launch a brand with 3 sedans first, before making a crossover? That is totally incompetent management.

The Genesis brand was only founded 4 years ago.

3.5 years is a pretty turn around to develop a new model - the GV80, esp. one w/ an all-new platform, new engines, rash of new tech, etc.

Speaking of platforms, the reason why didn't develop a CUV earlier is b/c they needed to develop a lighter-weight platform first to compensate for the increased weight of a CUV; the outgoing Genesis G80 was already on the heavy side as is, so basing the GV80 on the old platform would have made for a heavy, fuel-thirsty CUV.

Also, the new lighter-weight platform was developed so that it can also incorporate a BEV powertrain (which is on top of having additional EVs on a dedicated BEV platform).

The eG80 is already undergoing testing and Genesis has filed for trademarks for an eGV80, etc., so Genesis will have a full lineup of electrics before any of the Japanese lux makes.

That doesn't seem like incompetency to me (not that there hasn't been missteps at Genesis USA w/ regard to the retail network, which is why management has changed).

As for starting w/ 3 sedans (putting aside the platform weight thing), that's what the domestic market dictates.

SKorea is one of the largest and most profitable markets for MB and BMW when it comes to selling the E/S Class and 5/7 Series.

MB sold 10k E Class in SK in a 3 year period.

 

On 5/12/2020 at 6:57 PM, smk4565 said:

All of them entered the mid-price luxury segment and all of them are gone.  What makes the G80 any different from them?

Strong domestic market sales (which correlates w/ Genesis continuing to invest and upgrade; something that the Japanese and American makes did not do).

 

On 5/12/2020 at 10:11 PM, smk4565 said:

The G80 is a nice car, I think it is their nicest vehicle inside and out,  but it is going to be a sales struggle because 20 cars came before them and failed, and Genesis isn't doing anything those guys didn't already do.

For most of its run, the Genesis/G80 has placed 3rd in its segment, ahead of the A6, and should do so again w/ the new model.

And w/ all the non-European competition gone or half-way out the door, the buyers in this segment who want something other than a Euro will only have one choice.

 

On 5/11/2020 at 6:48 PM, smk4565 said:

Maybe Genesis will add more models and grow, but in a declining auto market I don't see who they are stealing gobs of market share off of.

Genesis has around 10k pre-orders for the GV80 and that's before any real national advertising campaign/commercials.

 

Edited by OCN2
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome OCN2.

Also, the GV80 I hope will be the first Genesis CUV since they need more than just ONE CUV these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

^ Thanks riviera.

Yes, the GV80 will be the 1st of 3 CUVs.

GV80

GV70

Dedicated BEV CUV

Both the GV80 and GV70 likely also get EV variants.

Also, I'm sure Genesis is mulling over whether they should go ahead w/ the GV90, or maybe a smaller CUV (GV60).

 

On 5/13/2020 at 11:40 AM, smk4565 said:

Genesis doesn’t have 50 years as Asia’s premier car brand that is just coming to the US for the first time.  These guys are starting from scratch like Lexus or Acura did.  Out of the gate Lexus had more success than Genesis had.  Lexus made an image, Genesis hasn’t, they don’t know what they want to be.

The G80 has sold way better than the GS and w/ the F/L G90, sales are neck-and-neck w/ the LS 500.

The ATP for Genesis and Lexus are also on par w/ each other, so w/ the addition of the GV80 and the new G80, the ATP for Genesis should surpass that of Lexus.

As Tesla has shown, what you have done in the past doesn't matter nearly as much these days.

Genesis will have an electrified lineup before the Japanese.

 

On 5/13/2020 at 4:02 PM, smk4565 said:

Where Genesis is in 50 years doesn’t pay the bills today.  The G80 is in a shrinking segment with no performance model and no hybrid and just 2 engine choices.  It looks like a nice car but this brand changes styling dramatically every 5 years, G80 will probably look dated shortly after being on market and sales will slump after the first year.

GV80 looks like it could be strong because that is a growing segment, Infiniti is dead in the water, the MDX is old, the XT6 is a weak entrant, Lexus GX is ancient.  If they steal 500 sales a month from each of those and get 1,000 Hyundai/Kia trade up buyers,  now they start getting 3,000 sales a month and have something going there.
 

There's a G80 Sport on the way (reportedly around 420 HP), as well as the aforementioned electrified eG80.

As stated above, there's already around 10k pre-orders for the GV80.

Doubt there would be too many H/K buyers trading up to a $50k-to-nearly $70k CUV (maybe something like the GV70).

The ones that will likely would be from the top spec of the Palisade and Telluride.

 

Edited by OCN2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac states the CT5 is a C-class, A4, 3-series, G70 competitor.  

On price the CT5 and G70 match up very closely, but the CT5 is the size of a G80.   I think the G80 is nicer than a CT5, CT5 and G70 are about equal I think, depends on  how big a car you want.  I think the Cadillac will sell better as it is 1 car covering 2 segments basically and has more recognizable brand name and dealer network.

On a side note a BMW M340i has a 3.8 second 0-60 time, that's not only a full second faster than a CT5-V, it is faster than a Camaro SS or Mustang GT.  This is the big separator with the Germans and these other guys, the performance isn't there.  Genesis isn't going to make a sedan that fast, let alone an M3 competitor.  Cadillac at least has tried with the V-series to make some fast cars, but they could still do more, like V-series SUVs, etc.

Your side note is bunk. That BMW is $14K more than the Camaro and almost $20K more than the Stang. It better be faster. The BMW starts at $56K and for $8K more, a Camaro ZL1 smokes it 0-60. This is what happens when you constantly try to move the freakin bar. And that CT5-V is not the same V as what was in the previous gen CTS. You have been told this multiple times but again, that bar moving. The Blackwing CT5 that replaces the previous V high tier performance, is 650HP and will be available with a manual. Think that damn 3 series is going to touch that? No so all this BS about performance (that you had to create via that bar moving again) not being a strong suit of the domestics is pure uninformed bull$h! on your part. I don’t know why you have to keep being reminded of this but those are the facts. Just stop. 
 

And for the fifteenth time, this is about the Genesis G80. Here’s hoping it can compete in the long run with the overpriced and overhyped Germans. 

Edited by surreal1272

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/13/2020 at 4:22 PM, riviera74 said:

Perhaps, but Genesis needs a GV70 to compete in the compact luxury CUV market, where the Lexus RX reigns supreme (for now).

The NX is more the GV70 competitor, but neither the NX nor the RX will have the handling or performance of the GV70 (we'll eventually see the 420+ HP 3.5TT in the GV70, which likely will get beaten in performance by the eGV70).

 

19 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And the G80 is a nice effort but no match for the E-class or 5-series. 

And how exactly do you know that?

International reviews of the KDM G80 have stated otherwise.

 

On 5/15/2020 at 6:56 PM, smk4565 said:

CT5 is a C-class competitor, the CT5 actually costs less than a C-class.  CT6 is out of production.

Genesis plans to go into the luxury sedan segment with reliability and low maintenance cost as their sales pitch, but Lexus and Acura tried that and failed.  And Genesis has a less than 5 year track record so we don’t really know if their long term reliability is good.

The Genesis sedan has been around since 2008 and the Equus/Centennial dates back to 1999.

smk has been wrong on many things, but he/she is correct on the CT5 - it is Cadillac's entry-level competitor (even if they are saying that it also stretches to replace the CTS).

Despite its larger size, the CT5 is priced for the entry/compact segment, like the predecessor to the ATS, the 2G CTS.

After the failure of the ATS due to its quizzically cramped cabin (can thank Mark Reuss for that fiasco), Cadillac went back to its prior formula of offering more space at the price-point (Genesis also does this w/ the G80 and Infiniti w/ the Q50).
 

 

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Right but CT4 is a 1-series, A-class, A3 competitor.  As Johan previously stated while there, Cadillac was going to go to that segment with rear drive when everyone else did front drive.   And you can throw the Acura TLX in there, which is bigger than a CT4, but same price point.

This is also correct.

What Cadillac did for its new sedans was to basically make them LWB from the start, hence, doing away w/ the need to develop a separate LWB for China (so what you get here is the same size as what you get in China;  no separate LWB variant like the ATS-L).

There was a 2G CT6 planned that was supposed to take over the role of the 3G CTS as the 5 Series/E Class competitor, but got canceled (there have been rumblings of Cadillac re-entering that segment w/ an electric vehicle).

Edited by OCN2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

That above...about Cadillac...is not correct.

The Catera is the car that started the RWD sports sedan entry for Cadillac. That was waaaay back in 1997.  Johan was at Audi then.

The Catera was roughly the size of a 1st gen CTS and 2nd gen CTS.  The Catera would be the failed predecessor of the CTS.

From the get go, the Catera was going to be the BMW 3 Series (4 door) rival. It was considerably bigger than the E36 Bimmer. 

Then Cadillac did the Arts and Science thing and decided to go to a more precise way to do a BMW 3 Series rival sedan.  Changed the name to CTS. Cadillac at this time also wanted to do away with FWD sedans and changed their FWD Seville Touring Sedan and Seville Luxury Sedan (STS and SLS for short...and minor differences mainly 25 HP and 5 ft/lbs less for the SLS versus the STS amongst other trivial things) to a RWD STS.  It was a couple of years now that Seville was retired to STS and SLS but with the RWD version, only STS was the nameplate.

The STS was a BMW 5 Series competitor.  Both the CTS and STS were slightly bigger than their rivals but slightly smaller than the next step up.

What does that mean?

The CTS was bigger than the 3 Series but smaller than a STS and BMW 5 Series.  

The STS was slightly bigger than the 5 Series but smaller than a BMW 7 Series.

This lasted for another generation.  But sometime during the 2nd gen CTS, the STS was canceled.

The 3rd generation CTS arrived. But this CTS REPLACED the STS and an new entrant came to be. The ATS.  Meaning, the CTS now is DIRECTLY competing with the BMW 5 Series in size as well. The ATS gets smaller than the 1st and 2nd gen CTS and is now the SAME size as the 3 Series Bimmer.  ( The 4 Series Bimmer now also grew to be bigger....)

OK...NOW....with ANOTHER name change... CADILLAC HAS GONE BACK to the original formula in that the CT4 is a tweener like the 1st and 2nd gen CTS was to the 3 Series Bimmer and a competitor to the 4 Series Bimmer which is slightly bigger than the 4 Series and the CT5 is slightly bigger than the 5 Series Bimmer but pricewise...Both Cadillacs are directly inline with their respective BMW rivals. 

Johan...wanted a car SMALLER than the ATS. That was scrapped I believe as there are no talks about it ever since he left Cadillac.  And yes...RWD.  Shyte!  Cadillac has been in this RWD market sports sedan niche since 1997. That be 23 years.  yes. Of coarse a smaller car than the ATS would be RWD. Cadillac has gone full out RWD performance for its CARS since the first CTS-V hit the streets in 2004...  Their was even a failed XLR...Corvette borrowed chassis in that mix and a very real V12 mid engined concept car created that actually drove like a REAL production car. THAT is how serious Cadillac was for doing RWD performance cars....    And THAT is waaaaaay before Johan came in at Cadillac. All Johan did was continue the perfornce RWD trend. 

Nothing to do Johan stating he will do RWD in segments where the Japanese and Germans are going FWD.  But EVERYTHING to do in continuing what Cadillac had started a decade plus before he came in...

And THAT is why I said...

WRONG

Lets get our facts straight.

PS: 

The ATS L in China was almost like an afterthought when Cadillac decided to start selling cars in China. That was AFTER the ATS development but was easy to do as the ATS rode on the Alpha platform.  The bigger CTS rides on that platform too...

The BIGGER mistake was NOT offering the ATS-L in North America.  They had NOTHING to lose in doing so...

BUT...Like you said OCN.

Cadillac has an onslaught of EVs coming.

But Ill bet a bigger selection of CUV and SUV EVs will be offered first and the sedan EVs will be limited. 

Maybe a CT6 sized or S Class sized Cadillac EV sedan will come to fruition and maybe a Tesla Model S competitor in a CT5 V  EV will be produced, but not before an onslaught of EV CUVs...

 

Edited by oldshurst442
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

This thread has been hijacked anyway talking about Mercedes more than Genesis...on TWO occasions. 

Yeah that comment was aimed toward all the derailments in general, not any one in particular.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, balthazar said:

M340injected is the top trim/performance model in the 3-series. But NONe of the 3 American models you compared it to are the top performance models. That’s the problem.

They make an M3.

4 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

This thread has been hijacked anyway talking about Mercedes more than Genesis...on TWO occasions. 

So to derail it further and perhaps in a more interesting topic... 

Not really a slow news day. 

Delta airlines is retiring all of its Boeing 777s.  That is a big blow to Boeing as Delta is also going to replace their fleet of 777s with  relying on their Airbus A350-900s with their longer routes and for their smaller routes with the Airbus  A330.  Delta says that both Airbuses are more fuel efficient and cost effective than the 777. 

 

Europeans beating America on fuel efficiency again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They make an M3.

Not currently.
But you CAN build/buy a GT500 at Ford.

Edited by balthazar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, OCN2 said:

^ Thanks riviera.

Yes, the GV80 will be the 1st of 3 CUVs.

GV80

GV70

Dedicated BEV CUV

Both the GV80 and GV70 likely also get EV variants.

Also, I'm sure Genesis is mulling over whether they should go ahead w/ the GV90, or maybe a smaller CUV (GV60).

 

The G80 has sold way better than the GS and w/ the F/L G90, sales are neck-and-neck w/ the LS 500.

The ATP for Genesis and Lexus are also on par w/ each other, so w/ the addition of the GV80 and the new G80, the ATP for Genesis should surpass that of Lexus.

As Tesla has shown, what you have done in the past doesn't matter nearly as much these days.

Genesis will have an electrified lineup before the Japanese.

 

There's a G80 Sport on the way (reportedly around 420 HP), as well as the aforementioned electrified eG80.

As stated above, there's already around 10k pre-orders for the GV80.

Doubt there would be too many H/K buyers trading up to a $50k-to-nearly $70k CUV (maybe something like the GV70).

The ones that will likely would be from the top spec of the Palisade and Telluride.

 

2 good posts in a row and I think Genesis is aggressive and will have a 6 vehicle line that is pretty strong within a couple years.  The SUVs will be key.  The GV80 and G80 interiors seem very nice, new chassis, new engine, that is all good stuff.
 

But they are also going against the German big 3 pretty much head on.  You have to be on your A game and be relentless.  Keep in mind Audi has an SUV that does the Nurburgring 12 seconds slower than a C8 Corvette Z51.  Can Genesis get a GV80 near Corvette level performance?  
 

Lincoln Aviatior is a good case study for Genesis, they came in with standard 400 hp turbo V6, optional 500 hp hybrid.  GV80 turbo 4 is priced against the 400 hp Aviator, the GV80 V6 is less powerful than the Aviator and probably with the right options mix the 2 could cost the same in V6 guise.  But Aviator is getting smoked in sales by others in the segment.  I’m not sure GV80 is an all out Aviator killer and it needs to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Your side note is bunk. That BMW is $14K more than the Camaro and almost $20K more than the Stang. It better be faster. The BMW starts at $56K and for $8K more, a Camaro ZL1 smokes it 0-60. This is what happens when you constantly try to move the freakin bar. And that CT5-V is not the same V as what was in the previous gen CTS. You have been told this multiple times but again, that bar moving. The Blackwing CT5 that replaces the previous V high tier performance, is 650HP and will be available with a manual. Think that damn 3 series is going to touch that? No so all this BS about performance (that you had to create via that bar moving again) not being a strong suit of the domestics is pure uninformed bull$h! on your part. I don’t know why you have to keep being reminded of this but those are the facts. Just stop. 
 

And for the fifteenth time, this is about the Genesis G80. Here’s hoping it can compete in the long run with the overpriced and overhyped Germans. 

The 340i is priced near the CT5-V and G70 V6 and the BMW spanks both in performance, better interior too although not as nice as the C43 which is slower than the 340i but faster than the other 2.

 

As far as G80 goes, the BMW 550i is faster than a Lexus LFA, CTS-V or CT6 Blackwing.    So I’d expect a G80 to have that level of performance.  I am not even saying Genesis needs M5 or E63 performance, that won’t happen, but they should be able to get to 550i level especially since they hired a guy from BMW to run their R&D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, OCN2 said:

 

And how exactly do you know that?

International reviews of the KDM G80 have stated otherwise.

 

All true in this post.  
And to answer the question, the E-class has 4 body styles (5 if you count CLS) and G80 has 1.  E-class has 4 engines in the US, all of which will be electrified for 2021 and the G80 has 2 engines with no electrification.  The E-class has up to 603 hp, the G80 has up to 375.  Also pretty much anything offered on the G80 was on the E-class 3 years ago. The G80 has to share a chassis with the GV80, E-class and GLE use different architectures so to optimize one for cars and the other for SUV.  And lastly Mercedes has a loyal buyer pool, Genesis has to conquest from another brand.  

G80 has the deck stacked against it.  And we have seen everyone else make runs at the E-class and 5-series in the past, Lexus even failed and finally quit the segment.  I don’t see how Genesis wins where Lexus failed.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@oldshurst442  That was a long post so I didn’t quote it, but I see a theme Cadillac Catera (Opel Omega), STS, DTS, CTS, XLR, ATS are all gone or failed.  Throw SRX that was rear drive and now a front drive XT5.  XTS too, 8 dead name plates in 20 years.  
 

Also CT5 is what gen 1 CTS was, 5-series size for 3-series money.  Gen 1 CTS was the best selling (best looking too) so that is a correct strategy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

The 3rd generation CTS arrived. But this CTS REPLACED the STS and an new entrant came to be. The ATS.  Meaning, the CTS now is DIRECTLY competing with the BMW 5 Series in size as well. The ATS gets smaller than the 1st and 2nd gen CTS and is now the SAME size as the 3 Series Bimmer.  ( The 4 Series Bimmer now also grew to be bigger....)

OK...NOW....with ANOTHER name change... CADILLAC HAS GONE BACK to the original formula in that the CT4 is a tweener like the 1st and 2nd gen CTS was to the 3 Series Bimmer and a competitor to the 4 Series Bimmer which is slightly bigger than the 4 Series and the CT5 is slightly bigger than the 5 Series Bimmer but pricewise...Both Cadillacs are directly inline with their respective BMW rivals.

Agree w/ everything until the CT4 and CT5 part.

In developing the ATS (and Alpha platform), Mark Reuss wanted to badly beat the 3 Series at its own game.

Problem was, Reuss benchmarked the E90 3 Series 109" WB), when he should have known that the next 3er was going to get larger (which it did w/ the F30 - 110.6" WB).

The WB of the ATS (109.3" WB) was almost identical to that of the E90.

So by the time the ATS went into production in 2012, it was already being outclassed by the F30 which went into production a year earlier in 2011.

Further exacerbating things, Reuss and the engineers working on the ATS made it so that handling prowess was maximized at the expense of trunk space.

In terms of passenger/trunk space, the ATS was more in line w/ something like the A3 (and now the A Class) than the A4 and C Class.

As an aside, the Alpha platform is the gift that keeps on giving - the 3G CTS was also tighter when it came to passenger space than its competition (5 Series/E Class) and when the Camaro switched over to the Alpha, interior room got squeezed and sales tanked (the ancient Challenger, w/ its copious amount of passenger space in comparison, started to outsell the Camaro, and by a good margin at that).

The CT4 is not the replacement for the ATS.

The CT4 has the exact same WB as the ATS (109.3" WB).

Why would Cadillac make the exact same mistake again for its compact/entry-level offering?

Yes, the CT4 is longer in overall length (187.2" compared to 182.8"), but that's pretty much all behind the rear axle - which was necessary to provide enough rear headroom w/ the new sloping roofline.

Like you had stated, the ATS-L should have replaced the ATS here in the US, but its WB is 112.6", making it a good bit roomier in the passenger compartment than the CT4, but there would have been a political price to pay for importing it from China and it wasn't worth the cost of tooling a plant here to produce it.

The CTS was on a different platform that was longer (114.6" WB) and wider than the WB for the ATS-L.

 

Furthermore, why would Cadillac drop the price of its compact/entry-level offering (if it were the CT4) down to $32,995?

That's a whopping $6k lower than the base price of the ATS ($38,995) which was already priced below the 3 Series ($40,750) and the C Class ($41,400).

That $32,995 price of the CT4 is below that of the A Class ($33,650), much less the CLA ($37,850) and they are FWD-based.

So are you saying that Cadillac's brand cachet is so damaged, that its compact offering has to be priced below MB's FWD subcompact offerings, and around $8,500 below the C Class?

That's also below the base price of the Acura TLX ($33,000), another FWD model.

As for the CT5, it starts at $36,895, lower than the price of the ATS.

Why in the heck would Cadillac's newest mid-segment offering be priced lower than its old compact offering?

And that's $17k below the price of the E Class ($54,050).

The new G80 is expected to start around $46k-48k ($47k, btw, is where the CTS starts), so Cadillac has to undercut Genesis by $10k as well?

None of that makes any sense.

But it's not just that; spent plenty of time on a Cadillac forum which included input from an insider who had access to Cadillac's future roadmap and read pretty much everything JdN had stated about his plans for Cadillac.

Like I had stated before, Cadillac went back to the strategy of the 2G CTS in providing more room than the competition, which also did away w/ the need for a separate LWB variants for China (JDN having focused on China as the market to drive increased volume).

The planned sedan lineup was as follows:

CT4 - sub-entry

CT5 - compact/entry

CT6 - midsize

CT7/CT8 - flagship

CT8/CT9 - uber-flagship

 

The 2G CT6 was canceled, or at the very least, suspended.

The Omega-based CT7/CT8 was canceled.

The uber-flagship morphed into the Celestiq EV.

   
Edited by OCN2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

@oldshurst442  That was a long post so I didn’t quote it, but I see a theme Cadillac Catera (Opel Omega), STS, DTS, CTS, XLR, ATS are all gone or failed.  Throw SRX that was rear drive and now a front drive XT5.  XTS too, 8 dead name plates in 20 years.  
 

Also CT5 is what gen 1 CTS was, 5-series size for 3-series money.  Gen 1 CTS was the best selling (best looking too) so that is a correct strategy. 

WRONG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

That was a long post so I didn’t quote it, but I see a theme Cadillac Catera (Opel Omega), STS, DTS, CTS, XLR, ATS are all gone or failed.  Throw SRX that was rear drive and now a front drive XT5.  XTS too, 8 dead name plates in 20 years.  

We've stated this ad nauseum.   And it really proves nothing.   

And more name changes are to come.  The EVs at Cadillac will have proper names. The Escalade shal;; remain Escalade.

The 2 steps forward 3 steps back at Cadillac is real. Fair enough.  But, most of what you post is fiction loosely based on facts.

Mostly outdated opinions you still hold...

Mostly irrelevant and trivial nonsense you hold against GM but dont hold the same standards for Mercedes.  You give a pass to Mercedes.  

 

Edited by oldshurst442
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The CT4 ($32,995) correlates w/ the XT4 ($35,695) - which is Cadillac's competitor to German sub-entry CUVs like the GLB ($38,050).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

OCN is correct on that prior post and CT4 and CT5 still ride on Alpha.  I think Cadillac knew they had to cut price to survive.  They made the right move pricing CT5 where they did.  CTS was dying in sales, a $10k price cut was needed or there was no point in continuing.   5-series size for 3-series money is the only strategy that worked for Cadillac in the past 25 years.

Edited by smk4565
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

2 good posts in a row and I think Genesis is aggressive and will have a 6 vehicle line that is pretty strong within a couple years.  The SUVs will be key.  The GV80 and G80 interiors seem very nice, new chassis, new engine, that is all good stuff.

But they are also going against the German big 3 pretty much head on.  You have to be on your A game and be relentless.  Keep in mind Audi has an SUV that does the Nurburgring 12 seconds slower than a C8 Corvette Z51.  Can Genesis get a GV80 near Corvette level performance?  
 

 

If Genesis is still going ahead w/ the coupe, then it'll be a 7 model lineup.

If the Mint and Essentia concepts get the greenlight, it would be 9, w/ likely another dedicated BEV or 2 added at a later date.

Wouldn't exactly say German Big 3, as least not here in the US.

For much of its run, the Genesis sedan/G80 has outsold the A6, and when the new model hits, should do so again, and the G90 has been outselling the A8.

Too early yet for Genesis to launch a performance division, so a Sport model/trim will have to do.

As the new G80 is getting a Sport trim, the GV80 may get one as well.

But something the size/weight of the GV80 is not really suited for performance as is the smaller GV70; think a 420+ HP GV70 should be enough power/performance to satisfy most.

For those who want more, there's the eGV70 (can't beat instant torque from a BEV system).

But the eGV70 (not being based on a dedicated BEV platform) likely won't have the performance chops of the dedicated EV Genesis CUV.

Like the production version of Kia's Imagine CUV, should have Taycan level performance (sub 3s 0-60 time) - using the same electric propulsion as the Porsche (Porsche and HMG both have an ownership stake in Rimac which oversees their performance electrics).

Would that be quick enough for you?

As already stated, the GV80 already has nearly 10k pre-orders.

Add a more powerful Sport trim and the electric - should attract more buyers.

The Q7 did 34.6k in sales last year.

Once the GV80 gets all its variations/powertrains, don't think 28k-32k in sales is unreasonable (assuming, of course, things get back to normal, or close to it).

Edited by OCN2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dang...

and here I am hoping the V80 will do well...in this segment, we need all the sedan help we can get.

While it doesn’t beat the best- it will offer another good o solid choice in the marketplace......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Europeans beating America on fuel efficiency again?

WRONG,

Airbus just now has an efficient plant that beats the 777. 

BOEING has Built a far more efficient plane, the Dream Liner 787 that Airbus has NOTHING to compete with.

Airbus FAILED as they tried to beat the 747 and while building an 800 plus people carrying cesspool of germs in a plane a380 that is so INEFFICIENT that most plane companies are writing them off. Production is over, where the 747 is still in production.

So YOU ARE WRONG WRONG WRONG

Back to cars

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Genesis:  starting something since time began!

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mercedes E450 sedan 4matic starts at $61,550, the G80 3.5 AWD starts at. $62,250. Mercedes has a longer options list that can push the price higher but that is pretty close pricing.  That G80 better be on point if they want E450 money for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Social Stream

  • Similar Content

    • By William Maley
      Genesis unveiled their dramatically redesigned G80 last night and it is quite the looker.
      The updated mid-size sedan boasts new design traits that first appeared on the GV80 crossover such as a larger, pentagonal grille and quad head and taillights. The most striking part is towards the back where Genesis' designers have given it fastback shape - no, it doesn't make it hatchback before you even ask.
      Moving inside, the G80 finds a balance between poshness and simplicity. From the photos provided by Genesis, the G80 looks to be available with leather upholstery, open-pore wood, and metal trim. Two large screens are used for the instrument cluster and infotainment system. Thankfully, Genesis does provide a number of control options such as touchscreen for the infotainment system, a number of physical buttons and knobs for various systems, and a controller knob.
      Two turbocharged engines will be available for the G80 in the U.S. A 2.5L inline-four pumping out 300 horsepower and 311 pound-feet of torque will serve as the base engine. One rung up is a twin-turbo 3.5L V6 with 375 horsepower and 391 pound-feet of torque. Both come paired with an eight-speed automatic and the choice of rear or all-wheel drive.
      The new G80 went on sale today in South Korea and plans to ship it over to the U.S. sometime in the second-half of this year.
      Source: Genesis
      Press Release is on Page 2


      THE ALL-NEW GENESIS G80 DIGITAL WORLD PREMIERE: LEADING DESIGN AND LUXURY-FOCUSED TECHNOLOGY
      Design: Distinct and progressive design offers instantly-recognizable Genesis identity Technology: Next-generation, technology-enabled luxury seamlessly integrates with clients’ lifestyle, devices and preferences Safety: Advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS) leverage advancements in sensor technology, machine learning Performance: Brand-exclusive platform increases solidity, performance, fuel economy, luxury SEOUL, South Korea, March 30, 2020 – The all-new Genesis G80 made its digital world premiere today. It represents both the third generation of the brand’s executive sedan and a decade-plus of mid-luxury leadership from Genesis’ parent company.
      “The core of our brand lies within the G80,” said William Lee, Executive Vice President and Global Head of the Genesis Brand. “This segment represents where we started and we’re pleased that our newest offering achieves a perfect balance of discerning luxury and inspiring performance for our customers.”
      Athletic Elegance Elevated          
      The story of the G80 begins with the brand’s emblem which inspires the Crest Grille and Quad Lamps, the distinctive face of every Genesis.
      “The all-new G80 is the centerpiece of our lineup perfectly weighing athletic and elegant characteristics. This represents the clearest interpretation yet of the Genesis brand identity,” said SangYup Lee, Senior Vice President, Head of Global Genesis Design. “Our goal is to offer unique, design-inspired experiences for our customers.”
      The brand’s “Athletic Elegance” design philosophy produces variations in design through a carefully-considered balance between its namesake’s opposing characteristics. While other Genesis models lean more towards athleticism or elegance, the G80 is characterized by the perfect balance in between, as the core of the model range.
      The front view embodies a distinguished but modern look, featuring the Crest Grill and double-lined Quad Lamp signature design elements. The two line graphics extend beyond the limits of the headlamps, into the rear fenders and the taillamps, encompassing all sides of the vehicle.
      On the side, the Parabolic Line, which begins at the front Quad Lamp and gradually runs lower to the rear through the top of the door, is inspired by the elegant look of several venerable classic cars. This elegant line is counter-balanced by athletic “power lines” emphasizing the fender volume and the upfitted 20-inch wheels. In addition, the chrome trim beginning from behind the front wheels stretches out along the bottom of the door, crosses the side sills and swells upwards to the rear, strengthening forward visual motion.
      The rear view features a dramatic, tapered look – highlighted by a sloping decklid and rear Quad Lamps which visually link to those in front. Chrome decor at the top of the trunk stretches the full-width repeating the theme of the Genesis emblem, while the dual exhaust finishers reference the Crest Grill design.
      The Luxury of Space
      The interior design of the G80 responds to the changing times where dominance of technology and information is no longer considered a luxury experience. Based on the "Beauty of White Space” concept inspired by traditional Korean architecture, priority is placed on the careful balance of personal space with state-of-the-art technology. This allowed the design team to optimize the layout of needed controls with calming, luxurious surfaces.
      Visibility was enhanced by minimizing A-pillar thickness and rearview mirror dimensions, utilizing flag type side mirrors and reducing dashboard height. The resulting ‘panoramic view’ gives the driver a relaxed view of the road ahead and the sense of openness when seated.
      Dividing the steering wheel into lower and upper halves, Genesis distinguishes the upper (panoramic area) and lower part (control area) to optimize intuitive use of the vehicle as well as the view ahead.
      The steering wheel and sleek, thin air vents run across the passenger compartment splitting it into the panoramic area above and the control area below. The number of hard buttons and switches was intentionally kept to a minimum, both for aesthetic purposes and ease of use.
      In the panoramic area, a heads-up display, a 12.3-inch instrument cluster and a 14.5-inch infotainment system display necessary information while driving.
      The control area is equipped with an intuitive suite of interfaces: a Genesis integrated controller for HVAC controls, a rotary-operated electronic shift dial and touch-and-write infotainment system.
      G80’s leading interior space has been further developed. Both headroom and legroom were increased by lowering the seating height of the second row, allowing for both more interior room and a more dramatic roofline. Completing the space, the G80 features leather seating and steering wheel surfaces, soft-touch fabrics and coatings as well as open pore wood trim finishes.
      Dynamic Luxury Begins with a Solid Foundation, Powertrain Innovations
      The G80's platform represents a brand-exclusive, third-generation, rear-wheel drive platform with a design that lowers the body and the center of gravity to secure a wider cabin and improved driving stability.
      “The all-new G80 brings all the existing strengths from the previous generations all the while upgrading the powertrain, platform and communication system with the state-of the art technologies,” said Albert Biermann, President, Head of Research & Development Division at Hyundai Motor Group. “It is a true, authentic Genesis.”
      The use of lighter weight materials was a distinct focus. Aluminum is used for about 19 percent of the body, reducing the weight by 110 kg (243 lbs) compared to the previous one, thus increasing fuel efficiency and performance.
      Engineered for world markets and customer needs, the G80 features three powertrains:
      2.5-liter turbocharged Inline-4: 304 PS (300 HP @ 5,800 rpm) and 43.0 kgf·m torque (311 lb.-ft. from 1,650 – 4,000 rpm) 3.5-liter turbocharged V6: 380 PS (375 HP @ 5,800 rpm) and 54.0 kgf·m torque (391 lb.-ft. from 1,300 – 4,500 rpm) Diesel 2.2-liter Inline-4: 210 PS, 45.0 kgf·m torque. (Not available in the U.S. market) The G80 features improved door sealing, new engine compartment sound insulation and resonant sound-reducing wheels to ensure indoor quietness and class-leading, low levels of noise (NVH). In addition, the Electronically Controlled Suspension with Road Preview, enhances ride quality by reducing road impacts using information supplied through the front camera.
      Advanced Safety
      In keeping with the brand’s safety platform, G80 applies standard active and passive safety systems, as part of a brand-level engineering commitment to passenger security. State-of-the-art, advanced driver-assistance systems (ADAS) include:
      Highway Driving Assist II (HDA II): This system helps assist the driver in a wider variety of situations than before, including during lane change maneuvers when the turn signal is used, and when others merge in front of you. Smart Cruise Control with Machine Learning (SCC-ML): A world first, SCC-ML, as applied to the all-new Genesis GV80 SUV earlier this year, incorporates artificial intelligence (AI) within the Advanced Driver Assistance System (ADAS) feature that helps the car to independently learn the driving characteristics of - and assist - its driver. Forward Collision-Avoidance Assist (FCA): This system may help automatically bring the G80 to a stop in certain situations where there is a risk of collision with an approaching vehicle detected on the left or right side of the intersection. G80 may also help detect potential collision risks in certain situations where a pedestrian is sensed in close proximity to the vehicle while in motion, for example. Blind-Spot Collision Avoidance Assist (BCA): BCA is essentially a Blind Spot Monitor with active capabilities. BCA helps reduce the chance of potential impact with a moving vehicle and may alert the driver if a vehicle is detected in the driver’s blind-spot A complement of 10 air bags includes front and side airbags as well as a center airbag, between the front seat occupants, that helps prevent secondary contact between occupants in a side impact.
      In addition, the Genesis safety platform works to integrate communications between 40+ controllers in real time to help ensure the safest response in various scenarios.
      Next-Generation, Technology-Enabled Luxury
      The G80 offers a high level of convenience to drivers with a suite of new technology. Each new feature is focused on further and seamlessly integrating the G80 with its client’s lifestyle, devices and preferences. A selection of highlighted features include:
      The Remote Smart Parking Assistant (RSPA) provides remote drive/reverse functions that facilitate parking in narrow spaces, as well as perpendicular parking and parallel parking. This can be controlled within the car or outside, remotely via the key fob. The 12.3-inch 3D instrument cluster recognizes the driver's eyes and provides various driving information and can be converted to 2D depending on the driver's preference. The Genesis Integrated Controller allows users to set destinations or enter phone numbers by simply writing on the main control center instead of complicated keyboard input. A 14.5-inch touchscreen infotainment system links with the Genesis Integrated Controller to support Genesis Quick Guide and Valet mode. Valet mode is a function that enhances security so that users' personal information does not appear on infotainment screens when using a Valet parking service. Over-the-air, wireless updates to the navigation system. Phone connectivity including Android Auto and Apple Car Play. With an eye toward the senses, luxury-focused items include:
      The driver's seat is equipped with an ergo motion seat function featuring seven air cells which enables optimum seating for each driving mode and reduces fatigue via a stretching mode and automatic posture correction functions. Ambient mood lamps applied throughout the interior add a sense of calm to the passenger space in various colors. From a sound standpoint, Genesis has enhanced the engine's sound with its Active Sound Design (ASD), standard on all G80s equipped with gasoline engines, adding an additional level of customization. The Lexicon sound system allows passengers to enjoy the vivid sound effects of a concert, such as "Quantum Logic Surround Audience Mode/Stage Mode," adding to the joy of listening. The first row HVAC system allows the driver to adjust the heated/ventilated seats in the second row and the air conditioning mode/temperature independently of the first row, increasing the convenience for second row passengers. Marketplace
      The all-new G80 enters the marketplace on March 30th in South Korea and in the second half of the year in other markets, starting with North America.
  • Recent Status Updates

    • trinacriabob  »  oldshurst442

      Liking that new av - a CP (Canadian Pacific) 747, IIRC
      · 0 replies
    • dfelt  »  A Horse With No Name

      Welcome back, so happy to see you back. You were missed!  
      · 0 replies
    • Robert Hall

      Reality is complex
      · 1 reply
    • ocnblu

      What's the frequency, Kenneth?
      · 0 replies
    • trinacriabob  »  balthazar

      It's not possible to message you.  At least, it wasn't possible to do that last summer.  So I'll post it here.  I had a crazy layover back in June at PHL ... for about 8 hours ... and wondered how far into NJ you were from Philly.  What I did is get the PHLash day pass and did the self-guided tour of Center City before heading back to the airport.  I stayed too close to the center because of time. I actually wasted time by going into South Philly.  I wanted to venture out onto the Main Line and see Villanova.  That rail line was included on the pass I bought.  I had to manage my time because of the late afternoon flight to the Coast.  Cheers.
      · 1 reply
  • Reader Rides

About us

CheersandGears.com - Founded 2001

We ♥ Cars

Get in touch

Follow us

Recent tweets

facebook

×
×
  • Create New...