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Genesis News: 2021 Genesis G80 Packs New Styling, Two Turbo Engines

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

They need the GV90 and especially the GV70 now, not in 24-36 months.   Cadillac solved that product gap issue within the last 18 months.

They probably should have done something cheap like Caddy did with all of their CUV's just using standard GM/Chevy platforms and powertrains but like the Telluride and Pallisade it looks like they want to be at/near top of class and are taking their time, showing  up late.

 

 

 

 

Edited by frogger

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, frogger said:

Genesis has the GV80 CUV equivalent of this G80, I believe it starts at just under 50k and is larger than an XT5, same length as a BMW X5.  Have to wonder if they are planning a GV70.  Hopefully a new G90 and GV90 will be here within a few years.

 

GV70 they need badly, it is the biggest segment in luxury cars and they aren’t there.

I am curious to see how the GV80 does.  If it doesn’t do well, I have doubts that they will do a GV90 to take on the Escalade which sells strong, and X7 and GLS.

The big problem for Genesis is they have no current owner buyer pool and a likely limited buyer pool of Sonata and Santa Fe drivers trading way up to G80 and GV80.  So their sales have to come from conquest, and who are they conquesting with no brand image/awareness and a small dealer network?  

Edited by smk4565

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4 hours ago, riviera74 said:

VW/Audi, MB and BMW could drop the US market like a bad habit and it would affect them very little.

I believe this is overstated. With the low ownership rate (vs leasing) & high fleet sales in Europe, those brands enjoy much higher margins in the US market that in Europe.

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2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

They need the GV90 and especially the GV70 now, not in 24-36 months.   Cadillac solved that product gap issue within the last 18 months.

If the GV90 is full size, GV80 is midsize, then a GV70 is compact, might as well do a GV60 for sub-compact. That would then give them a full product portfolio of luxury CUVs as some here have said everyone should have.

Personally, I think the 90, 80 and 70 is fine for 4 door CUV, then a 2 door CUV and that would be a solid product line.

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2 hours ago, dfelt said:

If the GV90 is full size, GV80 is midsize, then a GV70 is compact, might as well do a GV60 for sub-compact. That would then give them a full product portfolio of luxury CUVs as some here have said everyone should have.

Personally, I think the 90, 80 and 70 is fine for 4 door CUV, then a 2 door CUV and that would be a solid product line.

Sounds like you believe that Cadillac needs a compact AND a subcompact CUV as well in their lineup.  The XT4 (if I remember correctly) is a subcompact CUV, right?

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Cadillac for sure could use an XT3.

 

Genesis really should have GV60 before they do GV90. 

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20 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Sounds like you believe that Cadillac needs a compact AND a subcompact CUV as well in their lineup.  The XT4 (if I remember correctly) is a subcompact CUV, right?

I am fine with their lineup and see no need for anything below the XT4. Buick serves the section below that.

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On 3/31/2020 at 10:23 AM, balthazar said:

I disagree that the Aurora 'wasn't coupe-like'. It shed the traditional 3-box proportions of a sedan for a very fluid, flowing envelope, like many coupes did. [I eliminated the rear door handle / cut line on the Aurora and darkened the pic so we can focus on the profile/proportions]

Screen Shot 2020-03-31 at 1.16.40 PM.png

Ah, that late 90's Riviera Coupe...she was definitely a looker. Both were way ahead of their time and way outside the box.

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Worldwide the Mercedes A/GLA outsold the entire Cadillac brand last year.  I would say Cadillac could use an XT3.  Cadillac’s largest market is China, a place loaded with displacement taxes and booming with small vehicle sales.  
 

Hence why Genesis needs a GV60 more than a GV90.

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The A/gla is Daimler's Buick line.
In fact, damiler should split it and the C-class off into a separate brand. Just call it 'Benz' or even simply 'Daimler', cut all the prices by 20% and really go after toyoter. Stop playing around.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Worldwide the Mercedes A/GLA outsold the entire Cadillac brand last year.  I would say Cadillac could use an XT3.  Cadillac’s largest market is China, a place loaded with displacement taxes and booming with small vehicle sales.  
 

Hence why Genesis needs a GV60 more than a GV90.

So Mercedes best selling models were their absolute cheapest cars. Go figure. That is the result of Buick prices to compete with the lower end market that Cadillac doesn’t have to worry about. That’s was Buick is for. 
 

See how your logic is flawed here?

Edited by surreal1272
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42 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Worldwide the Mercedes A/GLA outsold the entire Cadillac brand last year.  I would say Cadillac could use an XT3.  Cadillac’s largest market is China, a place loaded with displacement taxes and booming with small vehicle sales.  
 

Hence why Genesis needs a GV60 more than a GV90.

Common Sense and BEST BUSINESS sense would be for Mercedes-Benz to cut from C-Class and below into a Daimler division of low cost auto's and keep Mercedes-Benz a true luxury auto line with entry being the E-Class. Clear distrinction between cheap to mid level prices and the luxury.

WHY IS THIS A CLEAR BUSINESS CASE?

Genesis, clearly building a luxury line above Hyundai.

Genesis is luxury, Hyundai is entry level to mid level.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, balthazar said:

The A/gla is Daimler's Buick line.
In fact, damiler should split it and the C-class off into a separate brand. Just call it 'Benz' or even simply 'Daimler', cut all the prices by 20% and really go after toyoter. Stop playing around.

Like how Cadillac went low end with the CT4, XT4 and CT5, 33, 35 and 37k to compete with Camry, RAV4 and Avalon.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by frogger
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Right: the CT4 & XT4 are wrong for Cadillac- said it before here. Especially the CT4- too close to CT5. Cadillac is not a full-spectrum brand and does not have try to be. Never was in the past.

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17 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Right: the CT4 & XT4 are wrong for Cadillac- said it before here. Especially the CT4- too close to CT5. Cadillac is not a full-spectrum brand and does not have try to be. Never was in the past.

What was in the past is in the past.  Today, many of the premium brands have small entry level cars and CUVs--look at the lineups of M-B, Audi, BMW, Lexus... got to have an entry point to get buyers into the brand. 

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9 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

What was in the past is in the past.  Today, many of the premium brands have small entry level cars and CUVs--look at the lineups of M-B, Audi, BMW, Lexus... got to have an entry point to get buyers into the brand. 

XT4 sales probably exceed CT4 sales by a lot.  Few buyers are looking for luxury sedans; they want luxury crossovers instead.  The XT4 is mandatory; the CT4 is expendable.

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Could CT4 outlive the Malibu and be the cheapest GM sedan in America in a few years?  I could see it being cancelled before a 5 year run.

 

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1 minute ago, frogger said:

Could CT4 outlive the Malibu and be the cheapest GM sedan in America in a few years?  I could see it being cancelled before a 5 year run.

 

Could be...not sure, does Chevy still have the Sonic sedan? 

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3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Could be...not sure, does Chevy still have the Sonic sedan? 

Demise has been predicted for a while but it is still around, 8 years on.

 

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2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

So Mercedes best selling models were their absolute cheapest cars. Go figure. That is the result of Buick prices to compete with the lower end market that Cadillac doesn’t have to worry about. That’s was Buick is for. 
 

See how your logic is flawed here?

A/GLA are not their best sellers, E-class alone does close to the volume those 2 do combined worldwide.  C and GLC outsell the A's also.

Buick only has 1 product smaller than an XT4, and that is the Encore and Encore GX if you want to call that 2 products. Neither are luxurious, the Encore doesn't  even have a center arm rest for the front passenger seat.  Nor do Buicks have Super Cruise.

I think a CT3 Cadillac would be an absolute bust, however an XT3 would sell.  An XT4 is 182 inches long.  There are several crossovers on market right now in the 165-170 inch long range so XT4 is much bigger than some current crossovers already on market.  

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2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Common Sense and BEST BUSINESS sense would be for Mercedes-Benz to cut from C-Class and below into a Daimler division of low cost auto's and keep Mercedes-Benz a true luxury auto line with entry being the E-Class. Clear distrinction between cheap to mid level prices and the luxury.

WHY IS THIS A CLEAR BUSINESS CASE?

Genesis, clearly building a luxury line above Hyundai.

Genesis is luxury, Hyundai is entry level to mid level.

Cutting below the E-class would be like Cadillac cutting everything below Escalade.  Makes no sense.  

Also the CLA35/GLB35 can run into the $60,000 range, they aren't so cheap.  

Mercedes has has 9 consecutive years of sales growth, #1 selling premium brand in the world, #1 seller of vehicles over $100k in the world.  I don't think they need to have change a formula that is working.  

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2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Right: the CT4 & XT4 are wrong for Cadillac- said it before here. Especially the CT4- too close to CT5. Cadillac is not a full-spectrum brand and does not have try to be. Never was in the past.

Cadillac, in theory, should have the highest profit margins of any GM brand.  Just for random numbers, if a Chevy has $1,000 in profit margin, a Buick/GMC $2,000 and a Cadillac $3,000, then GM should want to sell as many Cadillacs as possible because it represents the highest profit margin. 

Not only does Cadillac need a full line to steal sales away from other luxury makes, Cadillac needs a full line to steal sales from Chevy, Buick and GMC.  Every time someone buys a Buick/GMC instead of a Cadillac (or in this case a Cadillac that doesn't exist) GM is losing potential profit.  And I am talking like for like vehicle, not a Yukon Denali vs a CT4.  Every Encore or Terrain sold that wasn't an XT3 is lost profit.  And as a side note, GMC needs and SUV smaller than the Terrain.

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4 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac, in theory, should have the highest profit margins of any GM brand.  Just for random numbers, if a Chevy has $1,000 in profit margin, a Buick/GMC $2,000 and a Cadillac $3,000, then GM should want to sell as many Cadillacs as possible because it represents the highest profit margin. 

Not only does Cadillac need a full line to steal sales away from other luxury makes, Cadillac needs a full line to steal sales from Chevy, Buick and GMC.  Every time someone buys a Buick/GMC instead of a Cadillac (or in this case a Cadillac that doesn't exist) GM is losing potential profit.  And I am talking like for like vehicle, not a Yukon Denali vs a CT4.  Every Encore or Terrain sold that wasn't an XT3 is lost profit.  And as a side note, GMC needs and SUV smaller than the Terrain.

Stealing sales from within your own company shows just how idiotic your business sense or lake of sense is.

Having a proper rounded portfolio that takes sales from competition not from within the family of products is how business is and should be run.

Your comments make one question if you have any college education at all in understanding how to run a business.

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1 hour ago, frogger said:

Could CT4 outlive the Malibu and be the cheapest GM sedan in America in a few years?  I could see it being cancelled before a 5 year run.

 

That is a very good question.  This will be a close one, I think Malibu will die at the end of this life cycle because the mid-size sedan segment is competitive, Camry, Accord, Sonata, Optima are all strong, Subaru has loyal buyers, Nissan will stay in because they get a lot of fleet sales and have global scale.  For GM to keep the Malibu competitive it will cost a lot, they won't spend that.  

I do think GM may keep a Spark/Sonic type car around because down at that price point $15,000ish there isn't really any strong competition, they are mostly rental fleet or pizza delivery cars or something where buyers don't demand anything, and they can build that car in South Korea or China on the cheap and maybe keep that profitable.

I'd say even money odds as to which GM kills first the CT4 or Spark/Sonic.  The wildcard could be introduction of an EV sedan that is like $30k if batteries get cheaper.

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4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Stealing sales from within your own company shows just how idiotic your business sense or lake of sense is.

Having a proper rounded portfolio that takes sales from competition not from within the family of products is how business is and should be run.

Your comments make one question if you have any college education at all in understanding how to run a business.

Once upon a time, BMW sold over 10,000 3-series a month, and the X3 didn't exist.  Now the 3/4 series sell maybe $5k units a month, but the X3 sells another 6-7,000 units at a price higher than the 3-series.  BMW made a product that stole sales from their own model, but did so at a higher price and higher profit margin.

If Cadillac made an XT3 that brings in new buyers that otherwise never would have bought a Cadillac, and also takes 10,000 sales off Buick/GMC at an additional $1,000 per car, then Cadillac just made GM $10 million in extra profit.  This is why GMC and Denali exists, to take sales away from Chevy and make more money because they can jack the price up more on the same product.

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