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William Maley

Genesis News: 2021 Genesis G80 Packs New Styling, Two Turbo Engines

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5 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Today, many of the premium brands have small entry level cars and CUVs--look at the lineups of M-B, Audi, BMW, Lexus... got to have an entry point to get buyers into the brand. 

Non-sequitor. Cadillac is not a singular, stand-alone corporation, but 'one knife in the drawer'. BMW/MB/Audi have to reach way downmarket to keep the factories humming. A8/A7 sales aren't doing it anymore.

And entry-level cars do not 'get people in the brand who then move up'; that's a disproven myth.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Cutting below the E-class would be like Cadillac cutting everything below Escalade.  Makes no sense.  

Also the CLA35/GLB35 can run into the $60,000 range, they aren't so cheap.  

Mercedes has has 9 consecutive years of sales growth, #1 selling premium brand in the world, #1 seller of vehicles over $100k in the world.  I don't think they need to have change a formula that is working.  

Did you seriously just compare a $50K E Class to a $90K Escalade? You really have been brainwashed by that Daimler “logic”. 

 

And damn it! There it goes again. Here we have an article and thread about the Genesis G80 and you’re still talking about Daimler like they are paying you by the letter. Scratch everything I said prior that was unrelated to the G80. This is just beyond dumb at this point. F Benz and the sorry excuses you continue to make for them. This is about the Genesis. 

Edited by surreal1272

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If I had the coin and was in the market for a large, luxury sedan, I would be crazy not to give this a legitimate opportunity. 

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1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

If I had the coin and was in the market for a large, luxury sedan, I would be crazy not to give this a legitimate opportunity. 

Well...you are not doing badly for yourself. 

You've picked up a used  previously owned newish Lincoln MKC and a used  previously owned  newish Mercedes G Wagon for little money.    You have greatly seized your opportunities, Id say...   

 

 

 

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In pictures and video this is more to my liking than other 50-60k sedans I can think of, and I could probably say the same for the GV80 compared to 50-70k CUV's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Did you seriously just compare a $50K E Class to a $90K Escalade? You really have been brainwashed by that Daimler “logic”. 

 

And damn it! There it goes again. Here we have an article and thread about the Genesis G80 and you’re still talking about Daimler like they are paying you by the letter. Scratch everything I said prior that was unrelated to the G80. This is just beyond dumb at this point. F Benz and the sorry excuses you continue to make for them. This is about the Genesis. 

The most expensive E-class is $25,000 more expensive than the most expensive Escalade.  

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22 hours ago, balthazar said:

Non-sequitor. Cadillac is not a singular, stand-alone corporation, but 'one knife in the drawer'. BMW/MB/Audi have to reach way downmarket to keep the factories humming. A8/A7 sales aren't doing it anymore.

And entry-level cars do not 'get people in the brand who then move up'; that's a disproven myth.

Audi has VW, and they still make A3 and Q3, heck they make a Q1.  Why?  Because a Q3 is going to make more profit than a Golf GTI or Tiguan, etc.  Volkswagen would rather have people buy a Bentley than an Audi A8, same chassis, but the Bentley has higher profit margin.  

VW makes something like $700 per car, Audi makes about $5,000 and Bentley makes about $20,000.  Which do you think they want to sell the most of?  Every sale Audi takes from VW is $4,000 extra profit.  Porsche does about $20,000 per car also, think they'd rather sell a Porsche Macan or an Audi Q5?  Every Macan sale stolen from Audi is a $15,000 win for the company.  

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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The most expensive E-class is $25,000 more expensive than the most expensive Escalade.  

And the least expensive E Class that houses a 4 cylinder under its hood is as pricey as a Chevy Impala States side in Europe...  while also being a ubiquitous taxi cab in some countries' fleets... 

That reminds me of how a Biscayne was and Chevy also offered a top of the line SS version...

And if Chevrolet had not been part of a bigger corporate umbrella, Chevrolet would be asking Cadillac prices for its SS version...which is what Mercedes does States side...

And the 3 Musketeers  could down vote this post too if they want too...

Ill be laughing my ass off too if they do.  Would prove some theories I got about this whole thing...

Edited by oldshurst442
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Posted (edited)

But there's no evidence those are "stolen" sales, unless you believe they are directly cannibalizing sales from one another. If that's the case, they would shutter the brands whose bottom lines aren't the highest. But they don't, in fact; VW has bought more brands. So your 'stealing' theory is disproven by VW Group's actions.
Each brand incorporates a ton of unique overhead costs; from distribution, advertising, parts, etc etc. They unquestionably must survive on their own to a large degree.

Edited by balthazar
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EDIT :: bentley, by far, has the lowest revenue out of VW Groups many brands. VW Commercial makes 5 times more revenue than Bentley does, and the VW brand makes 44 times the revenue.

On the matter of profit; thru Q3 2019, bentley only pulled in 65 million in profit.
Audi's profit was around 4.5 billion, and VWs profit was 16 billion.

VW would very much like to sell more VWs rather than audis  or bentleys.
In fact, bentley is obviously a drag on the annual report- it would be better shuttered. Put the money into VW and sell more VWs / make more profit.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The most expensive E-class is $25,000 more expensive than the most expensive Escalade.  

Stop stop stop the damn bar moving. One AMG trim E Class doesn’t change the fact that it STARTS at almost $20K lower than a base model Escalade (And with a 190HP four pot to boot). It also proves that there are a few rubes out there if you’re going to pay $125K for a gussied up German taxi. 
 

And again, this isn’t about your precious and overpriced Benz. It’s about the Genesis and how it’s a far better deal than the German competition. 

Edited by surreal1272
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13 hours ago, balthazar said:

EDIT :: bentley, by far, has the lowest revenue out of VW Groups many brands. VW Commercial makes 5 times more revenue than Bentley does, and the VW brand makes 44 times the revenue.

On the matter of profit; thru Q3 2019, bentley only pulled in 65 million in profit.
Audi's profit was around 4.5 billion, and VWs profit was 16 billion.

VW would very much like to sell more VWs rather than audis  or bentleys.
In fact, bentley is obviously a drag on the annual report- it would be better shuttered. Put the money into VW and sell more VWs / make more profit.

I went through Volkswagen’s 2018 annual report since I didn’t see a 2019 up yet.  They do a nice job listing global sales volume of every model and they break out brand revenue and profit.

VW brand had 3.2 billion Euros in profit, Audi had 4.7 billion Euros and Porsche 4.1 billion Euros.   Skoda made 1.4 billion euros.
 

VW had 6.3 million units sold to Audi’s 1.8 million and Porsche’s 253,000.  Skoda sold 1.2 million units.
 

That little volume of a Porsche made more money than VW brand.  Audi beat VW and Skoda combined profits.   Note that Audi numbers include Lamborghini, because Lambo is part of Audi.  
 

They definitely want to sell Audi and Porsche over VW and Skoda.

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1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

And again, this isn’t about your precious and overpriced Benz. It’s about the Genesis and how it’s a far better deal than the German competition. 

If Genesis is such a good deal why did they sell 21,000 last year and they are down Q1 this year?    
 

They aren’t that good a deal because they needed better styling, interior and power trains which the G80 addresses.  G80 looks nice, but it isn’t better than what exists already.  A challenge brand has to beat competition not build “almost as good as”

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30 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

If Genesis is such a good deal why did they sell 21,000 last year and they are down Q1 this year?    
 

They aren’t that good a deal because they needed better styling, interior and power trains which the G80 addresses.  G80 looks nice, but it isn’t better than what exists already.  A challenge brand has to beat competition not build “almost as good as”

Your example is like a Teen boy in the locker room comparing dick size.

The bulk of society DOES NOT care about who has the biggest engine. They look at much more and that is proven in many various ways of which sales, product mix and many other things make up parts of the brand.

Everyone has to start some place. Originally Genesis was a sub-brand under Hyundai and sold very well which them made the company decide to make it a separate division as their luxury line. They did what any common sense business man would have done. Made it a separate division, moved the existing models into that division and started work on superior upgrades that can and do compete.

Taking this into account, lets look at your beloved MB sales history.
Full info can be looked at here: https://carsalesbase.com/us-mercedes-benz/

image.png

Based on this, the first sale in 1948 was a lone car, 2 were sold the next year and it took till 1967, the year I was born to finally break 20,000 cars sold. Took 19 years to get to 20,000 plus sales.

Now lets look at Genesis: https://carsalesbase.com/us-genesis/

image.png

As we can see, 2015 was a year of bringing out genesis models under Hyundai and into 2016 where they then flipped to a stand alone Genesis division. As we all know it takes 3 to 5 years to get new auto's to market. In that time, Genesis did well as they sold gussied up Hyundai's under a Genesis label. 2018 they killed off models having a lack of available product as they clearly wanted to have separation between the past and what is now the new Luxury models coming out.

I would say for a 3 1/2 year old division it is doing very well.

Genesis reaches 20,000 plus sales of auto's in 3 1/2 years versus 19 years of a competitor to reach that same milestone.

Genesis for the win!

@smk4565 Drop the MB crap here, focus on Genesis, If you cannot tell many are tired of your Daimler Koolaid focus and we are here to talk about Genesis.

Genesis has a solid competitor. Engines are on par with competition. Exterior is subjective to each person as is the interior. Yet I will say the interior I think beats many of the luxury products out there.

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Only badge snobs and those worried about their image go out a buy a NEW Mercedes over a new Genesis these days.  Just the repair bills alone would keep me away from "the best or nothing".

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Posted (edited)

Genesis is cheaper to maintain than a Cadillac, has better product than Cadillac but still people aren’t buying Genesis.  This new G80 is a step forward but they need to do more with G80 or price it at like $42k.  This thing should be CT5 and Lexus ES money, but Genesis will price it like a BMW and the product will fail.
 

 And personally I think Hyundai/Kia are really on top of their game.  But no hybrid, no EV, no twin turbo V8?   If you want to play with the big boys that is price of admission.

Edited by smk4565
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Who here thinks the G80 is better than the CT6?
 

CT6 was in the $50-70k range, was G90 size and had 4 engine options instead of 2.  CT6 also had livery and past Cadillac owners to pull from.  

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Genesis is cheaper to maintain than a Cadillac, has better product than Cadillac but still people aren’t buying Genesis.  This new G80 is a step forward but they need to do more with G80 or price it at like $42k.  This thing should be CT5 and Lexus ES money, but Genesis will price it like a BMW and the product will fail.
 

 And personally I think Hyundai/Kia are really on top of their game.  But no hybrid, no EV, no twin turbo V8?   If you want to play with the big boys that is price of admission.

Again you are proving why you would never succeed in running any car company. And please show us proof of a Genesis being cheaper to maintain than a Cadillac. 

36 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Who here thinks the G80 is better than the CT6?
 

CT6 was in the $50-70k range, was G90 size and had 4 engine options instead of 2.  CT6 also had livery and past Cadillac owners to pull from.  

You really want to bring up livery sales while touting E Class sales (Also mostly due to fleet sales) earlier? Btw, the XTS was the livery choice, not the CT6. You can’t even get your backhanded insults straight. 

Edited by surreal1272
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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Genesis is cheaper to maintain than a Cadillac, has better product than Cadillac but still people aren’t buying Genesis.  This new G80 is a step forward but they need to do more with G80 or price it at like $42k.  This thing should be CT5 and Lexus ES money, but Genesis will price it like a BMW and the product will fail.
 

 And personally I think Hyundai/Kia are really on top of their game.  But no hybrid, no EV, no twin turbo V8?   If you want to play with the big boys that is price of admission.

As YOU HAVE STATED, China is going to led the world towards EVs. V8's are Dead and you have even stated that as your favorite brand will focus on Turbo 4 and 6 engines. As such, there is NO NEED to waste R&D dollars on a V8 anymore. They can clearly build Turbo 4 and 6 engines and bring in hybrid and evs now and grow from there. In time they will rival everyone else. They have done so much in the last 20 to 30 years compared to 100 plus for everyone else just about.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Who here thinks the G80 is better than the CT6?
 

CT6 was in the $50-70k range, was G90 size and had 4 engine options instead of 2.  CT6 also had livery and past Cadillac owners to pull from.  

Livery was XTS never CT6 and the age differences between XTS and CT6 buyers is big for such a small pool of car people since the bulk of everyone has gone to CUVs where Cadillac has led the industry in sales at high ATPs.

Now Genesis, this is a valid need for them. Before they do an update to the 70 or 90 car, they need to make sure they have the 70,80 and 90 CUV out first and then as I have stated earlier, use the Palisade and make a uber luxury full size SUV out of it, or at least a 90's luxury version from it. No different than any other auto company out there in using the same platform with underneath identical parts, but the interior and exterior look light years different.

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2 hours ago, dfelt said:

As YOU HAVE STATED, China is going to led the world towards EVs. V8's are Dead and you have even stated that as your favorite brand will focus on Turbo 4 and 6 engines. As such, there is NO NEED to waste R&D dollars on a V8 anymore. They can clearly build Turbo 4 and 6 engines and bring in hybrid and evs now and grow from there. In time they will rival everyone else. They have done so much in the last 20 to 30 years compared to 100 plus for everyone else just about.

Livery was XTS never CT6 and the age differences between XTS and CT6 buyers is big for such a small pool of car people since the bulk of everyone has gone to CUVs where Cadillac has led the industry in sales at high ATPs.

Now Genesis, this is a valid need for them. Before they do an update to the 70 or 90 car, they need to make sure they have the 70,80 and 90 CUV out first and then as I have stated earlier, use the Palisade and make a uber luxury full size SUV out of it, or at least a 90's luxury version from it. No different than any other auto company out there in using the same platform with underneath identical parts, but the interior and exterior look light years different.

The Palisade is roughly the same size as the GV80, even if they grow the platform they can’t go against the Escalade with a front drive Hyundai platform and they can’t charge more for a Palisade based SUV than they do for GV80 which is a rear drive Genesis platform.  GV90 will be a a rear drive product as I suspect GV70 would be.  And a GV60 could be made off the Tucson platform or whatever small suv platform they have.

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Posted (edited)

The 2020 Lexus LS would be a far better looking option this this faux lux vehicle....... although i do understand the Lexus is more pricey....

 

image.png

Edited by regfootball

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, regfootball said:

The 2020 Lexus LS would be a far better looking option this this faux lux vehicle....... although i do understand the Lexus is more pricey....

 

image.png

Lol yeah what only an extra 30 grand or so.  LS is more expensive than the g90..

 

 

Edited by frogger
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Posted (edited)

even the Lexus will be deeply discounted though, too...

 

Edited by regfootball

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2 hours ago, regfootball said:

even the Lexus will be deeply discounted though, too...

 

Most things Lexus are seldom discounted.  Ever.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, regfootball said:

The 2020 Lexus LS would be a far better looking option this this faux lux vehicle....... although i do understand the Lexus is more pricey....

 

image.png

But that is more than G90 money.  Although I will also say the current Lexus ES and LS have a high belt line, and high inside center console which makes the interiors feel kind of cramped on both.  The LS has really lost it's way, it used to be a more stately and roomy luxury sedan, now it looks like a glorified Maxima or Mazda 6, and it is trying to be a sports car or something.

The Lexus GS is dated,  but the ES sells because it is the same size as a G80 or GS or E-class and it starts at $39k.  It is mid-size car for G70 money.  

Edited by smk4565

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      The G80 offers a high level of convenience to drivers with a suite of new technology. Each new feature is focused on further and seamlessly integrating the G80 with its client’s lifestyle, devices and preferences. A selection of highlighted features include:
      The Remote Smart Parking Assistant (RSPA) provides remote drive/reverse functions that facilitate parking in narrow spaces, as well as perpendicular parking and parallel parking. This can be controlled within the car or outside, remotely via the key fob. The 12.3-inch 3D instrument cluster recognizes the driver's eyes and provides various driving information and can be converted to 2D depending on the driver's preference. The Genesis Integrated Controller allows users to set destinations or enter phone numbers by simply writing on the main control center instead of complicated keyboard input. A 14.5-inch touchscreen infotainment system links with the Genesis Integrated Controller to support Genesis Quick Guide and Valet mode. Valet mode is a function that enhances security so that users' personal information does not appear on infotainment screens when using a Valet parking service. Over-the-air, wireless updates to the navigation system. Phone connectivity including Android Auto and Apple Car Play. With an eye toward the senses, luxury-focused items include:
      The driver's seat is equipped with an ergo motion seat function featuring seven air cells which enables optimum seating for each driving mode and reduces fatigue via a stretching mode and automatic posture correction functions. Ambient mood lamps applied throughout the interior add a sense of calm to the passenger space in various colors. From a sound standpoint, Genesis has enhanced the engine's sound with its Active Sound Design (ASD), standard on all G80s equipped with gasoline engines, adding an additional level of customization. The Lexicon sound system allows passengers to enjoy the vivid sound effects of a concert, such as "Quantum Logic Surround Audience Mode/Stage Mode," adding to the joy of listening. The first row HVAC system allows the driver to adjust the heated/ventilated seats in the second row and the air conditioning mode/temperature independently of the first row, increasing the convenience for second row passengers. Marketplace
      The all-new G80 enters the marketplace on March 30th in South Korea and in the second half of the year in other markets, starting with North America.
  • Recent Status Updates

    • trinacriabob  »  oldshurst442

      Liking that new av - a CP (Canadian Pacific) 747, IIRC
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    • dfelt  »  A Horse With No Name

      Welcome back, so happy to see you back. You were missed!  
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    • Robert Hall

      Reality is complex
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    • ocnblu

      What's the frequency, Kenneth?
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    • trinacriabob  »  balthazar

      It's not possible to message you.  At least, it wasn't possible to do that last summer.  So I'll post it here.  I had a crazy layover back in June at PHL ... for about 8 hours ... and wondered how far into NJ you were from Philly.  What I did is get the PHLash day pass and did the self-guided tour of Center City before heading back to the airport.  I stayed too close to the center because of time. I actually wasted time by going into South Philly.  I wanted to venture out onto the Main Line and see Villanova.  That rail line was included on the pass I bought.  I had to manage my time because of the late afternoon flight to the Coast.  Cheers.
      · 1 reply
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