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2021 Buick Envision - where has the news been on this


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My question to the "patriots" on this forum, which is preferable:

The Envision is build in China, so buying it you are supporting Chinese workers but profits go to GM in US.

Or

Acura RDX is built in Ohio, so by buying it you will support thousands of American jobs in US but the profits will go to Japan.

Edited by ykX
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It's a really foggy area and one needs to look at the parts content to truly make an educated assessment.  The Envision is pretty much a 100% chinese manufactured vehicle by a company that is 51% owne

How many manufacturing jobs US lost in the last 30-40 years because corporations choose profits by moving manufacturing overseas and investing nothing here. Incentive means nothing because greed alway

Sorry @ocnblu , there is absolutely nothing "fun" about Ecosport except maybe this color.

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26 minutes ago, ykX said:

Tested: 2021 Buick Envision

Tested: 2021 Buick Envision Poses as A Luxury SUV (caranddriver.com)

2021 Buick Envision First Look: A Better-Looking, Less Powerful Luxury SUV (motortrend.com)

Reviews are similar, good looking but otherwise just ok.  Better choices available for the money.

I agree, while I helped on the 2nd year the Envision was out my sister get one that is fully loaded and she loves in her favorite color, Garnet red, this less powerful version and the two options of blah black or blah white and black interiors just SUCKS!

There are better options like you stated and especially Hybrid that perform way better than this. SAD, she is ready to trade it in as a in home care nurse for open wounds, she drives allot and at 3yrs she is hitting 75K miles of no problems and loves her auto, but is ready for a new one. Sadly no Hybrid of the Envision which she would buy in a heartbeat. Her backup brand Mazda also, no Hybrid and while she likes the Mazda 5, she actually feels it is less luxury than her Envision.

Gave her a list of Hybrids and she is trying to decide as she is not a fan of any of them. I also told her of the EVs coming and she is thinking on if she wants to wait for one of them since power is cheap here. Her average 2,084 miles a month equals 69.5 gallons of gas used per month for work at $2.91 average price per gallon today equals $202.15 a month in gas cost versus a 77kWH battery pack giving 259 miles at .06 cents per kW = $4.62 per battery pack recharge and it will take 8 full batteries to cover the miles so a total of $36.96 per month in electricity.

Current gas would be $2,425.80 a year.

Current electricity would be $443.52 a year.

She still will have the tire wear and tear, but no oil changes and other ICE maintenance. So for her, waiting till one of the new EVs comes out might be the best for her cost wise especially since she is able to write off the miles and auto cost since she uses it for work.

12 minutes ago, ykX said:

My question to the "patriots" on this forum, which is preferable:

The Envision is build in China, so buying it you are supporting Chinese workers but profits go to GM in US.

Or

Acura RDX is built in Ohio, so by buying it you will support thousands of American jobs in US but the profits will go to Japan.

Personally, I would go with an American company that keeps the profits here, supports jobs globally but pays corporate taxes into supporting America. IMHO.

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8 minutes ago, David said:

Personally, I would go with an American company that keeps the profits here, supports jobs globally but pays corporate taxes into supporting America. IMHO.

Personally, I could care less about corporate taxes.  I think good paying  US manufacturing jobs support US economy much more than corporate taxes, which each company tries to pay as little as possible (and I am sure GM is using every loophole possible).

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15 minutes ago, ykX said:

Personally, I could care less about corporate taxes.  I think good paying  US manufacturing jobs support US economy much more than corporate taxes, which each company tries to pay as little as possible (and I am sure GM is using every loophole possible).

True, but you do have to have local profits to offer jobs building modern products. Best is to have American made products from raw material to finished products.

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59 minutes ago, David said:

Best is to have American made products from raw material to finished products.

Of course this is the best. 

I am asking a particular question of Envision vs RDX.  Chinese manufacturing jobs and US corporate profit vs American manufacturing and Japan's corporate profit.

Anyone else would like to share an opinion? @balthazar  @Drew Dowdell @ocnblu @A Horse With No Name @Robert Hall @ccap41 @surreal1272 @daves87rs anyone else?

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2 minutes ago, ykX said:

Of course this is the best. 

I am asking a particular question of Envision vs RDX.  Chinese manufacturing jobs and US corporate profit vs American manufacturing and Japan's corporate profit.

Anyone else would like to share an opinion? @balthazar  @Drew Dowdell @ocnblu @A Horse With No Name @Robert Hall @ccap41 @surreal1272 @daves87rs anyone else?

I would take the RDX. Actually neither, as I don't find either of them all that appealing. But American blue collar jobs for the win. 

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For the Envision vs RDX, I'd have to go with the RDX as it is an Ohio-built product.    Though I'd take the MDX over the RDX.

Edited by Robert Hall
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1 hour ago, David said:

True, but you do have to have local profits to offer jobs building modern products. Best is to have American made products from raw material to finished products.

Which is why I bought the Ranger and use American made machines in my workshop. 

Just now, Robert Hall said:

For the Envision vs RDX, I'd have to go with the RDX as it is an Ohio-built product.    

Agreed. 

1 hour ago, ykX said:

Personally, I could care less about corporate taxes.  I think good paying  US manufacturing jobs support US economy much more than corporate taxes, which each company tries to pay as little as possible (and I am sure GM is using every loophole possible).

I agree here. Plus, working people spend money that stimualtes the economy. 

On 6/8/2020 at 7:07 AM, frogger said:

Looks much better but still made in China, kind of a deal breaker no?  When it is so easy to purchase a vehicle  made elsewhere.

 

 

It is for me. 

On 6/9/2020 at 7:14 PM, ocnblu said:

Makes the current model disappear, never to be seen again.  Sexy!  Hate its country of origin though.

I would upvote this a million times if I could. 

On 6/9/2020 at 11:03 PM, balthazar said:

 


You could say exactly that about MOST of the CUV segment.

Which is why I like motorcycles and woodworking tools more than most modern vehicles. 

Chevy Trail Boss for the win though....that is badass. 

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2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I agree here. Plus, working people spend money that stimualtes the economy.

Also, running for bigger corporate profits is what caused US to loose so many manufacturing jobs to begin with.  

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On 6/11/2020 at 11:02 PM, David said:

These are the top 4 Premium II with 9sp transmission and trailering package plus moonroof.

image.png

Can I say hard pass?

Just now, ykX said:

Also, running for bigger corporate profits is what caused US to loose so many manufacturing jobs to begin with.  

Yep. We have spent the last forty years selling out what it took the previous 120 years to build. Drive through any rustbelt midwestern city....

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 It's definitely kind of murky and complicated for many vehicles.. my Jeep is a good example..it has some German ancestry, built in the US by an Italian-American company, engine built in Mexico, various parts from all over no doubt.

I'm not sure I'd want a US built German car, I'd rather have one built in Germany than Alabama I think. 

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1 hour ago, ykX said:

Of course this is the best. 

I am asking a particular question of Envision vs RDX.  Chinese manufacturing jobs and US corporate profit vs American manufacturing and Japan's corporate profit.

Anyone else would like to share an opinion? @balthazar  @Drew Dowdell @ocnblu @A Horse With No Name @Robert Hall @ccap41 @surreal1272 @daves87rs anyone else?

Honestly, I think Drew covered it best as just narrowing down to the choices you’ve given is too simplistic although I get what you were going for here. It is a very complicated situation in that regard. 

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I would lean towards the Envision over an Acura in this instance, but ultimately would have to automatically bow out of a 49% GM / 51% Chinese company vehicle and skateboard instead.

More generally, I will always go with an American corporation over a foreign one. Ram is out for me because: Stellantis<FCA<daimler-Chrysler. Point of assembly is a much more tertiary point with me (and China-assembled is a HUGE strike in my book).

Edited by balthazar
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That's a very good question @ykX, I'm leaning more towards what the better end product is. 

I think, in this scenario, I would be more likely to support the MDX with American workers but foreign corporation. A big part of the equation is that I'm not a fan of the union jobs the D3 suffer through but also the fact that they moved the jobs overseas to avoid those crappy unions, they themselves are admitting they don't like them either. 

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Acura RDX is number 14 on a list of vehicles with American parts content, that is admirable, imo.  China is clearly a bitter economic adversary of ours.  NO WAY I'd consider the Buick, simply for this reason.  I think less of gm overall for this product.  It is yugely improved over the old one however.

I like to believe that out of the major Asian auto-producing nations, South Korea is most friendly toward the US.

Nissan has a yuge presence in Tennessee, that is a plus for me.  Honda/Acura have long-established bases here as well.  Toyota too. 

I wish the US were as protective of her industries as Europe and Asia are.  As a nation, we give away way too much, at our own, longterm economic peril, imo.

Edited by ocnblu
de-capitalizing gm, old habits die hard
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3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Corporate taxes are not meant to be paid. They're meant to be an incentive to invest in plants, equipment, and people.  Investing in those things lowers your taxes.

How many manufacturing jobs US lost in the last 30-40 years because corporations choose profits by moving manufacturing overseas and investing nothing here. Incentive means nothing because greed always wins, especially when it comes to corporations and upper management.

Honda is using at least 60-70% percent US made parts in the cars they assemble here.  How come Honda can design and assemble  in US with majority of US parts a better product than GM can do in China for the same money?

Edited by ykX
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58 minutes ago, ykX said:

How many manufacturing jobs US lost in the last 30-40 years because corporations choose profits by moving manufacturing overseas and investing nothing here.

WRT General Motors 40 years ago (1980), GM lost $753 million on the year. GM also had a record 618K employees as of '79, the largest private employer in the nation. By '86, that number was 816K (in 2020 it was 155K). That translates to one thing; a tsunami of near-future pension obligations. Couple that with the cropping up of foreign, non-unioned plants at the same time. If GM started up assembly plants overseas in this period, it was for survival, not 'gross profits'. 

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I think Drew pretty much nailed it.

I think the toughest part is the automakers have to impress Wall Street, which is only concerned about the bottom line.

They want them build where it is cheapest, and whatever else it takes to fatten that profit. If the Shareholders had their way, all cars/trucks would be built in China.......

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2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Acura RDX is number 14 on a list of vehicles with American parts content, that is admirable, imo.  China is clearly a bitter economic adversary of ours.  NO WAY I'd consider the Buick, simply for this reason.  I think less of gm overall for this product.  It is yugely improved over the old one however.

I like to believe that out of the major Asian auto-producing nations, South Korea is most friendly toward the US.

Nissan has a yuge presence in Tennessee, that is a plus for me.  Honda/Acura have long-established bases here as well.  Toyota too. 

I wish the US were as protective of her industries as Europe and Asia are.  As a nation, we give away way too much, at our own, longterm economic peril, imo.

I understand that, but without China, Buick goes the way of Oldsmobile and Pontiac. 

Unfortunately, not every GM product is built here with US-made parts.  As already stated, some Toyotas and Hondas (such as the CR-V and RDX) have more US/Canadian parts content than the new Envision.  Making this decision rather hard in some cases.  The Car and Driver article linked earlier mentioned that the Envision is actually cheaper than the Corsair and the QX50.  Whether it is better to get one of those (or an RDX or an XT4 or a CX-5) is another question.

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51 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Making this decision rather hard in some cases.

In zero cases in my book.
 

1 hour ago, daves87rs said:

the automakers have to impress Wall Street

You of course realize what elevated stock prices do for the COMPANY, yes?

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On 2/26/2021 at 6:33 PM, ykX said:

Honda is using at least 60-70% percent US made parts in the cars they assemble here.  How come Honda can design and assemble  in US with majority of US parts a better product than GM can do in China for the same money?

Garbage, greedy unions. 

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On 2/26/2021 at 4:33 PM, ykX said:

Honda is using at least 60-70% percent US made parts in the cars they assemble here.  How come Honda can design and assemble  in US with majority of US parts a better product than GM can do in China for the same money?

What proof do you have that GM produced Buicks are not as good as US built Honda products? The Buick Envision is a pretty damn nice auto and been very reliable for my sister. I have not see the problems on her Envision compared to my neighbors accord that seems to always be in the shop. Could it be the lack of care by us labor?

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9 minutes ago, David said:

What proof do you have that GM produced Buicks are not as good as US built Honda products? The Buick Envision is a pretty damn nice auto and been very reliable for my sister. I have not see the problems on her Envision compared to my neighbors accord that seems to always be in the shop. Could it be the lack of care by us labor?

EVERY review said that.

But even looking at it, it is clear.  RDX has more powerful engine: 272hp/280ft-lbs vs 230hp/258hp.  It has much better AWD system: SH-AWD is significantly better than FWD based system Buick has.  RDX has more cargo space.  Dynamically reading reviews for both it is definitely superior than the Envision.  I can say that Buick has only one thing that is better - the exterior looks.

17 minutes ago, David said:

I have not see the problems on her Envision compared to my neighbors accord that seems to always be in the shop.

My wife's previous car was MDX that we drove for 100k miles, no issues.  My wife's current car is MDX Hybrid - year and a half, 20k no issues.  My parents own 2016 CR-V - no issues, my mother in law owns 2013 CR-V (almost 100k miles) - no issues.

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@ykX Thanks for the reply, very glad your wife love it. Interior space is very personal as the RDX and MDX, interior space for large people sucks. If I sit in the front, no one can sit behind me where they can in the Buick.

I also find the interface of the Buick dash much more to my liking than the crazy button overkill mess of the Acura.

I have never driven the Acura AWD in snow or heavy water, but I have the Buick and it handles very well. So while engine power is different as you quoted the base to mid level, my sister has a Premium II Envision so 252HP / 260 ft-lbs of torque and it does move very well.

I will say that the Buick being 300lbs heavier than the RDX shows gm has room to remove weight. 4000 versus 3700 lbs.

Both seem to be very capable CUVs, seem to run as very reliable auto's. So I think both since style is a personal matter works well for customers in the market. Reviews posted by actual buyers seems to bear this out compared to the magazine reviews which I do question allot.

I saw a battle between two people posting on Edmunds the love hate relationship of the interior dash.

I agree with you that I think the Envision looks better than the Acura, but for those that have had positive reliable experiences, I cannot blame a person for sticking with one over another product.

Thank you for posting your info and your personal experience, always good to read what others experience as I think it is more valid than the magazine reviews.

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