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William Maley

Ford News: 2021 Ford F-150 Features New Tech, Hybrid Power

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You might not be able to tell that the 2021 Ford F-150 is all new. The shape, basic dimensions, and ladder-frame chassis are the same as the outgoing F-150. But you need to look a bit deeper to find the changes and new features that the blue oval hopes keeps their truck on top.

PowerBoost? PowerBoost.

What PowerStroke is for diesels, PowerBoost is Ford's brand name for the new hybrid system available on the F-150. The system is comprised of the 3.5L EcoBoost V6, 35kW (47 hp) electric motor mounted in the transmission, and a 1.5-kwh lithium-ion battery pack. No details were given on power output or fuel economy, but Ford is targeting 700 miles on a single tank of gas and max towing of 12,000 pounds.

Generator? I Have My Truck.

Pro Power Onboard turns the F-150 into a generator to power various electrical devices no matter where you are. It comes standard on the Hybrid providing 2.4kW, or 7.2kW via an option. All engines except the base 3.3L V6 get it as a option that provides 2.0kW. There are two 120-volt, 20-amp outlets for the 2.0 and 2.4kW systems, and 7.2kW system boasts four 12-volt outlets and a 240-volt, 30-amp outlet for higher draw equipment.

You Want Tech!? We Have It and A Kitchen Sink as Well

Ford is going all-in on offering all sorts of tech on the 2021 F-150. It begins up front with the introduction of Sync 4 that brings forth faster processing power, better voice recognition, and over-the-air updates. An eight-inch screen will be standard on lower-end models, while a 12-inch screen is available on XLT and higher-trims. The larger screen also brings forth wireless CarPlay and Android Auto. 

Next up comes CoPilot 360 2.0, Ford's suite of active safety features. All models boast pre-collision assist with automatic braking, pedestrian detection, and automatic high beams. Move up to the XLT and above and you'll get lane-keep assist, parking sensors, reverse brake-assist, and a post-impact braking system. 

The biggest tech feature for the F-150 won't be out till sometime next year. That is Active Drive Assist which Ford announced recently for the Mustang Mach-E. Active Drive Assist is similar to Cadillac's Super Cruise where it allows for hands-off driving on divided highways that have been mapped by Ford - over 100,000 miles of these roadways in the U.S. and Canada according to automaker. The system also comes with a driver-facing camera that tracks eye and head movement to make sure the driver is paying attention. This system will be available via an OTA update, provided the F-150 is equipped with a prep kit that includes hardware to enable another safety feature, Intersection Assist that prevents drivers from accidentally pulling in front of oncoming traffic during a left-turn.

Other Details to Know

  • All engines carry over from the previous generation, which includes the 3.3L V6, 2.7L EcoBoost, 3.5L EcoBoost, 5.0L V8, and 3.0L PowerStroke Diesel.
  • No more six-speed automatic, all engines now come paired with an ten-speed automatic.
  • Ford will be offering eleven different grille designs, and fourteen wheel choices - ranging in size from 17 to 22-inches.
  • The front seats can recline up to 180-degrees.
  • Center console can transform into a work-area for a 15-inch laptop by opening and folding the lid. The transmission selector on floor console models folds down flat to make room.

We'll likely get more details dripped out before the 2021 F-150 arrives at dealers this fall.

Source: Ford
Press Release is on Page 2


BUILT FOR GETTING THINGS DONE, FORD REVEALS THE TOUGHEST, MOST PRODUCTIVE F-150 EVER AND MOST POWERFUL IN ITS CLASS

  • All-new Ford F-150 takes America’s truck of choice for work and recreation to the next level, targeting to deliver the most maximum towing, payload, torque and horsepower of any full-size light-duty pickup, with ingenious features that make customers even more productive and new technology like over-the-air updates and SYNC® 4
  • New exterior design has a bolder and even tougher look, and an all-new interior provides more comfort, technology and functionality for truck customers, along with enhanced materials, new color choices and more storage
  • New available Tailgate Work Surface boosts productivity at the back of the truck, while new optional Interior Work Surface makes using a laptop or eating a meal more comfortable; available Max Recline Seats with nearly 180 degrees of recline help customers rest between jobs
  • Available Pro Power Onboard™ means customers can leave the generator at home and free up cargo space; there’s enough energy to power 28 average refrigerators, charge a bed full of electric dirt bikes or run an entire job site worth of tools
  • Class-exclusive 3.5-liter PowerBoost™ Full hybrid engine delivers Built Ford Tough capability – it is targeted to have the most torque and horsepower of any light-duty full-size pickup, at least 12,000 pounds of maximum available towing capacityᶧ and a targeted EPA-estimated range of approximately 700 miles on a single tank of gasᶧ

DEARBORN, Mich., June 25, 2020 – As America returns to work, Ford reveals its all-new F-150 – part of the F-Series lineup that’s been America’s choice for getting the job done for 43 consecutive years. The all-new F-150 is purpose-built to be the toughest, most productive F-150 ever and targeted to be the most powerful light-duty full-size pickup truck on the market.

“Since 1948, our hardworking F-Series customers have trusted Ford to help them get the job done,” said Jim Farley, Ford’s chief operating officer. “F-150 is our flagship, it’s 100 percent assembled in America, and we hold ourselves to the highest standard to make sure our customers can get the job done and continue to make a difference in their communities.”

The all-new F-150 raises the standard for all light-duty trucks. It targets the most towing, payload, torque and horsepower of any light-duty full-size pickup, introduces all-new features to increase customer productivity, has new connected vehicle innovations such as over-the-air updates that help keep F-150 at the forefront of purposeful technology, and an available all-new 3.5-liter PowerBoost™ hybrid powertrain with Pro Power Onboard™ – an integrated power generator.

“We see it as our duty to deliver not just what our customers want and need, but what they might have never thought possible,” said Craig Schmatz, Ford F-150 chief engineer. “The F-150 will be tougher than ever, and with fully connected over-the-air updates, it opens up a much wider range of potential enhancements – from system upgrades to feature offerings.”

Toughest F-150 ever
The all-new F-150 starts with a durable, proven foundation – a fully boxed high-strength steel frame with a high-strength, military-grade, aluminum alloy body. Every panel of the distinctive, rugged exterior is redesigned while maintaining its bold and tough signature look, including an updated headlamp design, new power dome hood and wrap-around bumpers. Higher front fenders, a tucked-in midsection and larger-diameter tires pulled out three-quarters of an inch create a stronger, more powerful stance on and off the road.

There are 11 grille options available across the series lineup, all differentiated in their design and all unmistakably F-150, plus new tailgate appliqués. Functional upgrades throughout include available LED headlamps and taillamps, and available full-length extended power running boards with kick switch that provide better truck-side cargo box accessibility.

The all-new F-150 is also the most aerodynamic ever. New active grille shutters, a new automatically deploying active air dam, and new cab and tailgate geometry all work together to reduce drag and improve fuel consumption on every truck.

The interior is completely redesigned to elevate truck owners’ experience with style, comfort, utility and technology. Featuring enhanced materials, new color choices and more storage, it is built around the functional needs of truck customers. Every surface has been thoughtfully designed, such as more soil-resistant two-tone seats for XL or the new standard dual glovebox.

F-150 introduces an all-new 12-inch center screen – standard on XLT high series and above – that allows customers to split the screen and control multiple functions simultaneously, including navigation, music or truck features. The landscape design strikes a balance between demands for technology accessibility and the greater convenience of physical buttons. An 8-inch touch screen, standard on XL and XLT standard and mid-series trucks, means every customer gets touch screen functionality and better rearview camera vision. Both screens feature access to the new digital owner’s manual, which can help all customers find the information they need more easily, including how-to videos for additional explanation.

An available new 12-inch digital gauge cluster features a large information-on-demand area, along with truck-specific graphics and animations that respond to the all-new F-150’s selectable drive modes and can display off-roading data and turn-by-turn navigation.

Most productive F-150 ever
Ford’s deep understanding of truck customers informs new features on the all-new F-150 that help take productivity to the next level.

Creating the ultimate durable, anywhere office, F-150’s new optional Interior Work Surface is ideal for signing documents, working on a 15-inch laptop or enjoying a meal when parked. It is available in both bench and captain’s chair seating configurations on XL to Limited. Knowing many customers prefer a console shifter, Ford has created a stowable unit for F-150, which easily folds into the center console with the push of a button and allows full access to the large work surface when in park.

Class-exclusive Max Recline Seats available on King Ranch, Platinum and Limited models provide ultimate comfort during downtime. Max Recline Seats fold flat to nearly 180 degrees, with the bottom cushion rising to meet the back cushion and the upper back support rotating forward up to 10 degrees for maximum comfort.

Available lockable, fold-flat rear storage adds a vault to the F-150 that extends the width of the rear seats. It’s as easy as lifting the bottom cushion of the rear seat, dropping valuables in and locking them away for safe keeping. Great for storing long items like fishing rods or blueprints, it even has a divider to keep gear organized.

Every all-new F-150 comes standard with new cleats mounted to the sides of the tailgate to act as tie-down locations for extra-long items in the bed. New clamp pockets are built in to the tailgate of every truck, so customers can hold materials down for precision work. An available flat Tailgate Work Surface also includes integrated rulers, a mobile device holder, cupholder and pencil holder.

Customers can keep going into the night with exclusive available Zone Lighting. This allows occupants to turn on and off individual sections of exterior lights through the SYNC® 4 screen or remotely with the FordPass app on their phone, so they never have to work, camp or do anything in the dark.

The all-new F-150 is the only light-duty full-size pickup to offer available Trailer Reverse Guidance and Pro Trailer Backup Assist. Trailer Reverse Guidance, made popular on Super Duty, uses the truck’s high-resolution cameras to provide multiple views along with helpful graphics that tell drivers which way to turn the steering wheel while backing up. Pro Trailer Backup Assist, which makes backing up a trailer as easy as turning a dial, continues on F-150.

Most powerful in its class
The all-new 3.5-liter PowerBoost full hybrid V6 powertrain is targeted to deliver the most torque and horsepower of any light-duty full-size pickup. Available on every trim level from F-150 XL to Limited, the no-compromise PowerBoost system – the only light-duty full-size pickup to offer a full hybrid – adds instant electric torque to Ford’s 3.5-liter EcoBoost® V6. It is targeting an EPA-estimated range of approximately 700 miles on a single tank of gasᶧ and will deliver at least 12,000 pounds of available maximum towing – equivalent to the average weight of 43 NFL linemen.

PowerBoost combines Ford’s proven EcoBoost engine and 10-speed SelectShift® automatic transmission with a 35-kilowatt (47-horsepower) electric motor integrated into the transmission, as well as software calibrated specially for truck use, including drive modes like tow/haul mode to help customers better manage towing heavy trailers.

The electric motor applies regenerative braking energy capture to help recharge the 1.5-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery. The battery is efficiently packaged underneath the truck, leaving the cab and cargo box of PowerBoost F-150 as spacious for passengers and cargo as other comparably equipped F-150 models. The system is capable of sustained battery usage at extreme outside temperatures or under heavy loads.

Power isn’t only important under the hood. Available Pro Power Onboard expands F-150’s capability by bringing generator levels of exportable power to work sites, camp sites and everyday life. Pro Power Onboard is available with a 2.0-kilowatt output on optional gas engines, while PowerBoost-equipped F-150 comes standard with 2.4 kilowatts of output or an optional 7.2 kilowatts of output. Power is accessible through in-cabin outlets and up to four cargo bed-mounted 120-volt 20-amp outlets, with a 240-volt 30-amp outlet on the 7.2-kilowatt version. The system even provides power on the move to charge tool batteries in between jobs.

Most connected F-150 ever
F-150 represents Ford’s next big step in bringing connected vehicles to customers. The all-new F-150 is North America’s first full-size pickup with standard over-the-air updates, helping customers’ trucks stay at the forefront of purposeful technology. These updates are bumper-to-bumper, and can include all-new functions and additional features throughout the life of the truck. They can support preventative maintenance, reduce repair trips, provide improved performance and ultimately result in more vehicle up-time. The majority of updates will be completed in under two minutes and can be performed at times customers choose, so they won’t have to put their lives on hold.

All-new SYNC 4 is standard, helping keep owners connected and make their days more productive with more natural voice control available as well as real-time mapping and customizable information on demand. The technology builds on more than 10 years of SYNC innovation by helping minimize distractions with hands-free voice control as well as core features such as making phone calls and selecting music. With twice the computing power of the previous-generation system, new SYNC 4 can wirelessly connect smartphones without the USB cord for seamless integration of Apple CarPlay™ or Android Auto™ compatibility as well as SYNC AppLink® apps like Waze and Ford+Alexa.

Customers can access more than 10,000 hours of on-demand content, live channels, ad-free music, sports, entertainment, news and personalized recommendations, and they can search for related content with available SiriusXM with 360L satellite and streaming service. The new eight-speaker B&O Sound System by Bang & Olufsen is available starting on F-150 XLT, while the optional 18-speaker B&O Unleashed system with speakers in the headliner and front headrests is available on F-150 Lariat, King Ranch and Platinum, and standard on Limited.

Ford offers complimentary technology including 911 Assist® that automatically alerts emergency responders in the event of an accident, and FordPass, a mobile device app that allows Ford drivers to start or unlock their vehicle from a distance, as well as control new truck-focused features like Zone Lighting, Trailer Theft Alert, Trailer Light Check and Pro Power Onboard.

Driver-assist technologies
All-new F-150 offers the latest driver-assist features as part of Ford Co-Pilot360™ 2.0. More features are now standard on XL, including Pre-Collision Assist with Automatic Emergency Braking and Pedestrian Detection to help avoid a possible collision with another vehicle or a pedestrian, rearview camera with dynamic hitch assist, auto high-beam headlamps and auto on/off headlamps.

F-150 also adds 10 new driver-assist features and is the only pickup to offer Active Drive Assist, which allows for hands-free driving on more than 100,000 miles of divided highways in all 50 states and Canada. Its advanced driver-facing camera tracks head position and driver eye gaze to enable hands-free driving when available. It allows owners on certain sections of pre-mapped, divided highways to drive with their hands off the steering wheel – if they continue to pay attention to the road ahead – granting them an additional level of comfort during long drives. The Active Drive Assist prep kit contains the hardware required for this feature, while the software to enable functionality, expected in the third quarter of the 2021 calendar year, will be delivered by over-the-air update or dealer visit. Separate payment will be required to activate full functionality at that time.

Other new available features include Intersection Assist, which detects oncoming traffic while the driver is attempting a left turn. If there is risk of a collision with an oncoming vehicle, F-150 will apply the brakes to mitigate or avoid it. F-150 is the only light-duty full-size pickup with available Active Park Assist 2.0, which handles all steering, shifting, braking and accelerator controls during a parallel or perpendicular parking maneuver while the driver holds down a button.

Every F-150 is proudly assembled at Ford’s Dearborn Truck Plant in Dearborn, Michigan, and Kansas City Assembly Plant in Claycomo, Missouri. The all-new F-150 will be available this fall.

ᶧProjected EPA calculated range. Actual range will vary. Final EPA-estimated ratings available later in the 2020 calendar year.


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Best ford truck in generations I think.

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Underwhelming overall.  When you have to look several times to "spot the differences", you know you're in trouble.

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The generator, bed electric outlets, and rear seat storage area are useful.  They have that folding gear lever, but they could has just done a column shift or push button on the dash to free up console space.  Nice that the seats recline flat, but not sure how much that will get used.  They put some nice features in as far as usability goes and working at a job site etc.  The screen looks good and should add some function.

In the reveal they made no mention of powertrain s I assume all carry over engines, and nothing new but the hybrid which I imagine is like a Lincoln Aviator powertrain.  Nothing earth shattering but probably did enough to keep it the #1 truck.

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They never released information on the engine lineup but I believe they mentioned the engines by displacement.That might be a hint at bumps in power and/or efficiency as they're finally adding cylinder deactivation to the 5.0. 

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

the hybrid which I imagine is like a Lincoln Aviator powertrain

I think it's a possible rumor that that powertrain might be a Raptor powertrain. We will see in a year or so. 

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12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

In the reveal they made no mention of powertrain s I assume all carry over engines, and nothing new but the hybrid which I imagine is like a Lincoln Aviator powertrain.  Nothing earth shattering but probably did enough to keep it the #1 truck.

Ahem,

Quote

Other Details to Know

  • All engines carry over from the previous generation, which includes the 3.3L V6, 2.7L EcoBoost, 3.5L EcoBoost, 5.0L V8, and 3.0L PowerStroke Diesel.

 

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9 hours ago, ccap41 said:

They never released information on the engine lineup but I believe they mentioned the engines by displacement.That might be a hint at bumps in power and/or efficiency as they're finally adding cylinder deactivation to the 5.0. 

I think it's a possible rumor that that powertrain might be a Raptor powertrain. We will see in a year or so. 

Ram is supposed to announce a 707 hp Hellcat soon, that will be a lot more than the Raptor has.  I have to imagine GM will take a supercharged Corvette engine and put it in a Silverado.  

But the Cybertruck could be over 1,000 hp, so all bets are off.  But the Aviator powertrain could be half of what's in other trucks.

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So what will GM do now with the Silverado/Sierra?

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3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Ram is supposed to announce a 707 hp Hellcat soon, that will be a lot more than the Raptor has.  I have to imagine GM will take a supercharged Corvette engine and put it in a Silverado. 

707HP is also a lot more than the Ram has.

the Cybertruck could be over 1,000 hp, so all bets are off. 


Hummer IS going to have 1000 HP, so the teslawedge is already DOA because it looks like a cardboard 'car' the neighbor kids built.

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3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

GM will take a supercharged Corvette engine

That would be called either LT4 (650HP) or LT5 (755 HP)  

But Ford has a 7.3 liter pushrod V8  (yeah....like the Dodge and Chevy motors, but THIS one has got 7.3 liters(445 glorious, no replacement for displacement cubic inches)  out muscling the other two.  And what is GREAT with this engine is that it is said that with a few tweaks here and there...600 NATURALLY ASPIRATED horses could be EASILY  had...

Now...because this engineès block is cast iron...THAT means it COULD handle superchargers and turbos and THAT means that the magical 1000 horsepowers could be attained quite easily...  

Which also means that if push comes to shove, Ford could couple that with an electric motor to possibly add another 100-200 electric horses to the mix.  I dont think Ford is ready to say lights out just yet.  (At least with the trucks...) 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

That would be called either LT4 (650HP) or LT5 (755 HP)  

But Ford has a 7.3 liter pushrod V8  (yeah....like the Dodge and Chevy motors, but THIS one has got 7.3 liters(445 glorious, no replacement for displacement cubic inches)  out muscling the other two.  And what is GREAT with this engine is that it is said that with a few tweaks here and there...600 NATURALLY ASPIRATED horses could be EASILY  had...

Now...because this engineès block is cast iron...THAT means it COULD handle superchargers and turbos and THAT means that the magical 1000 horsepowers could be attained quite easily...  

Which also means that if push comes to shove, Ford could couple that with an electric motor to possibly add another 100-200 electric horses to the mix.  I dont think Ford is ready to say lights out just yet.  (At least with the trucks...) 

 

 

 

The TRX is a 1500 and not a 2500, right? 

I VERY highly doubt Ford would put the 7.3 in a F150 and it would be left for their SD lineup. It doesn't need the whole EPA MPG certification and they probably want to leave it that way. If they wanted big power, they'd likely take the supercharged 5.2 or supercharge the 5.0. 

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20 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The TRX is a 1500 and not a 2500, right? 

I VERY highly doubt Ford would put the 7.3 in a F150 and it would be left for their SD lineup. It doesn't need the whole EPA MPG certification and they probably want to leave it that way. If they wanted big power, they'd likely take the supercharged 5.2 or supercharge the 5.0. 

True.

But I wanted to wax poetic about the 445 cubic inch pushrod V8 and the decision to make that engine available for sale to all. 

And the only way I could have done that, was to slightly skew the details in my favour. 

beverly hills cop ii | Tumblr

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

True.

But I wanted to wax poetic about the 445 cubic inch pushrod V8 and the decision to make that engine available for sale to all. 

And the only way I could have done that, was to slightly skew the details in my favour. 

 

 

Huh? It's a 7.3L truck engine--an alternative to the diesel for the Super Duty, nothing interesting, not going to be used in a car...and no cubic inches, that's been an obsolete measurement for at least 40 years..

Edited by Robert Hall

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Horsepower wars will be on is all I am saying.  And they’ll do it because they can charge $100k for a pickup and get a lot of profit margin which these guys need because sales could be bad for a year or two.

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19 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Huh? It's a 7.3L truck engine--an alternative to the diesel for the Super Duty, nothing interesting, not going to be used in a car...and no cubic inches, that's been an obsolete measurement for at least 40 years..

Arent we talking about trucks?  We are, arent we?   I know I am...

  I never mentioned about where that 445 CI engine will be  put it...

But...you are WRONG to call it a truck engine...only for trucks...because 

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a30753008/fords-73-liter-v-8-can-make-600-naturally-aspirated-horsepower-with-basic-mods/

 from the link...

Ford's 7.3-Liter V-8 Can Make 600 Naturally-Aspirated Horsepower With Basic Mods

The giant gasoline V-8 in Ford's new Super Duty pickups can make huge naturally-aspirated power—and it can fit in a Fox-body Mustang.

 

 

We also learn that, while the engine is quite a bit heavier than a 5.0-liter Coyote or a 351 Windsor, it's capable of cranking out some serious power with just a few small tweaks—588 horses, 508 lb-ft.

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I know you would be laughing...

But what's the beef?

And you know...displacement has gone up for some of the world's most super-est sports cars since 40 years ago.

The Porsche 911 from a 2.7 went to a 3.0 to a 3.3 to a 3.6 and the Turbo I think is 3.8 liters.

The Ferrari lineage V12 has gone from a 5.0 liter to 5.5 liter  to a 6.0 liter V12 to a 6.3 liter to the Superfast's 6.5 liter in that 40 year time fram.

Lamborghini  Ill start it with a late 1970s  Countach...

Has gone from a 4.8 liter to a 5.2 liter to a 5.7 liter to a 6.0 liter to a 6.2 liter to today's 6.5 liter...

Now...I agree with you that displacement is no longer the macho thing on the streets to brag about. Turbos and superchargers were that talk in the 1990s and today, which in themselves are displacement equivalents as engines are air pumps and displacement sizes are just measures of volumes of air the engine displaces and turbos and superchargers just ram more air into the engine to compensate from the lack of air displacement from downsizing...

But you would think that Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche would have really downsized their engines in the last 40 years especially the way you present your argument to me...

Ill do Corvette...

In the 1970s, Corvettes did have a 5.0 liter option, but since the C4 it has been a steady 5.7 liter.  But the SBC has increased its displacement slightly since then to 6.2 liters.    Again, its crazy to think that both Ferrari and Lamborghini have bigger displacements in their offerings today and when you consider what was happening in the 1960s with our Italian Supercars and our American Muscle Cars....

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Horsepower wars will be on is all I am saying.  And they’ll do it because they can charge $100k for a pickup and get a lot of profit margin which these guys need because sales could be bad for a year or two.

Sure.

And that is all I was saying too.

Ford aint hurtin' from the lack of horsepower.   They got options.  

Whether Im wax poeting about Ford's new 7.3 liter V8 crate engine or their 760 HP supercharged 5.2 liter Predator engine (which is 5 more horsepower than GM's LT5 at the moment) Ford is doing just fine.

Lack of sales is  with an increase of their already high debt load is another story all together. But they arent the only ones in that boat.   All car manufacturers  face that problem right now.  

 

 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I know you would be laughing...

But what's the beef?

 

Ford already has great performance V8s available in the Mustang, with the regular 5.0 and 5.2 Voodoo/Predator in the Shelbys....a cast iron truck engine wouldn't make sense... aftermarket applications are another thing...

Edited by Robert Hall

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Shyte...

Im behind the times...

Porsche's 911 GT3/GT3 RS has a 4.0 liter. 

https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/911-gt3-gt3-rs

Pretty impressive 500-520 naturally aspirated horsepower too.  That still doesnt change the fact that since 40 years ago, Porsche's boxer engine has increased 1.3 liters and it just seems funny to me that a 2019 GT3 has no turbo help for more horsepower, but rely on pure engine displacement to achieve horsepower...

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1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

Shyte...

Im behind the times...

Porsche's 911 GT3/GT3 RS has a 4.0 liter. 

https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/911-gt3-gt3-rs

Pretty impressive 500-520 naturally aspirated horsepower too.  That still doesnt change the fact that since 40 years ago, Porsche's boxer engine has increased 1.3 liters and it just seems funny to me that a 2019 GT3 has no turbo help for more horsepower, but rely on pure engine displacement to achieve horsepower...

And then they have all the turbo variations in the Turbo, GT2, GT2 RS, etc...lots of variety.

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1 minute ago, Robert Hall said:

Ford already has great performance V8s available in the Mustang, with the regular 5.0 and 5.2 Voodoo/Predator in the Shelbys....a cast iron truck engine wouldn't make sense... aftermarket applications are another thing...

But...

Originally, I wasnt talking about Mustangs. I never mentioned Mustangs.  I never mentioned anything BUT the 7.3 liter V8.  Just continued on about the supposed lack of horsepower in Ford's truck line-up... 

1 minute ago, Robert Hall said:

And then they have all the turbo variations in the Turbo, GT2, GT2 RS, etc...lots of variety.

Sure. The 911 comes in all kinds of flavours which mirrors their engine availability for the 911.    A very good thing. 

Its still doesnt change the fact that Porsche's Boxer 6 now displaces 4 liters. Up from 2.7 40 years ago... 

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3 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

Its still doesnt change the fact that Porsche's Boxer 6 now displaces 4 liters. Up from 2.7 40 years ago... 

Yes, they have evolved over time.

4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

But...

Originally, I wasnt talking about Mustangs. I never mentioned Mustangs.  I never mentioned anything BUT the 7.3 liter V8.  Just continued on about the supposed lack of horsepower in Ford's truck line-up... 

 

Horsepower doesn't matter in trucks, though.  It's all about the torque, hence the very torquey turbo diesels in the Super Dutys, etc.

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Back on the Topic of Ford F-150, I am wondering if any 3rd party company will build a lift kit for the Hybrid / EV trucks as well as Lowering kit.

I think there will be these kits as well as new areas of performance modes in the sense of new computers, controllers, gear changes for the electric motors. 

It is an exciting time to think about all the ways you could Modify an F-150 Hybrid / EV truck.

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Just now, Robert Hall said:

Yes, they have evolved over time.

Horsepower doesn't matter in trucks, though.  It's all about the torque, hence the very torquey turbo diesels in the Super Dutys, etc.

Oy Vey...

We could talk about the  7.3 liter PUSHROD V8 and its torque it you want to...  

And you know what?  NOTHING changes about me waxing poetic about it...

Its got 475 ft/lbs at 4000 RPM.  That is almost 1960s Big Block numbers. Not too shabby for a gasoline engine.  

The engine, because its got thick cast iron walls it could be turboed or supercharged or it could be bored out to have even more cubic inches and either method will yield even more horsepower and torque figures.

Dont be mad at me for praising this engine. This engine is a great thing for V8 (truck) enthusiasts.  And I see many Ford car guys as well too...  Including myself.

Im dreaming right now about what I could put this behemoth of a V8 engine into?

Im thinking into a Crown Vic.  I could recreate what a mid 1960s Galaxie 500XL with a 390 could have felt like.  (I prefer the Corwn Vic over the Marauder but a Marauder would be just as cool) 

Ford Crown Victoria LX Sport specs, 0-60, performance data ...

 

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Oy Vey...

We could talk about the  7.3 liter PUSHROD V8 and its torque it you want to...  

And you know what?  NOTHING changes about me waxing poetic about it...

Its got 475 ft/lbs at 4000 RPM.  That is almost 1960s Big Block numbers. Not too shabby for a gasoline engine.  

The engine, because its got thick cast iron walls it could be turboed or supercharged or it could be bored out to have even more cubic inches and either method will yield even more horsepower and torque figures.

Dont be mad at me for praising this engine. This engine is a great thing for V8 (truck) enthusiasts.  And I see many Ford car guys as well too...  Including myself.

Im dreaming right now about what I could put this behemoth of a V8 engine into?

Im thinking into a Crown Vic.  I could recreate what a mid 1960s Galaxie 500XL with a 390 could have felt like.  (I prefer the Crown Vic over the Marauder but a Marauder would be just as cool) 

Ford Crown Victoria LX Sport specs, 0-60, performance data ...

 

That's a sweet CV in that pic. I love the idea of hot rodding a Crown Vic/Marauder/Grand Marquis/Town Car, but I'd want the Coyote 5.0 or maybe a Voodoo 5.2.  Since Ford moved away from pushrod V8s 25-30 years ago in cars, it seems retrograde to go back to one.  And since the 7.3 is not available in the F150, how did these posts get in this thread in the first place?  Holy thread derailment, Batman!

Edited by Robert Hall

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Imma gonna git me one of those 392L Challengers!! 😆

Screen Shot 2020-07-01 at 3.23.47 PM.png

Yeah, a bit anachronistic.  Too bad they don't have a modern 7.0 Hemi, 426 would have been better than the obscure 392 designation.  (since the original Challenger was available w/ the 426 in 70-71, and there was a 392 in the 50s, which had no historical correlation to the Challenger..

Edited by Robert Hall
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• It's actually less anachronistic than hot-rodding a plasticy, out-of-production Crown Vic... since the 392 designation is current.

• [puts on RobertHall Zero Sarcasm hat]The '50s 392 and the current Challenger are from the same company and both are Hemi's; plenty of connection there.[/hat off]

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I think that's a Cutlass

imageproxy.php.gif

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^^^  Everybody just stop.  I am may not be a mod around here. But put the keyboard down.  Just put the keyboard down. Now bring me a moderator.   There's got to be a better way to discuss the 2021 Ford F-150 without derailing the thread. Unless the plans have been changed.   Who here is a thread critic?   Let us all clap for the wonderful job we've done discussing cars. Other than the fact this is a 2021 Ford F-150 thread, we've all done a good job. Its beautiful.    :smilewide:

 

 

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TOLE YOU IT WAS A CUTLASS!  :smilewide:

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@oldshurst442 Wants a 2022 F-150 with the Supercharged Godzilla Motor in it. He does not care about MPG. :P 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

^^^  Everybody just stop.  I am may not be a mod around here. But put the keyboard down.  Just put the keyboard down. Now bring me a moderator.   There's got to be a better way to discuss the 2021 Ford F-150 without derailing the thread.   

Actually, you derailed the thread by going off on an engine that isn't available in the 2021 F-150.. pot calling kettle black.

Edited by Robert Hall
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I want a new (or slightly used) truck so badly. I would definitely look at the F-150... but I’m against buying a first year generation.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Actually, you derailed the thread by going off on an engine that isn't available in the 2021 F-150.. pot calling kettle black.

Yeah...kinda like Axel Foley? 

But this was addressed a LOOOONG time ago....when CCAP asked me about it...

23 hours ago, ccap41 said:

The TRX is a 1500 and not a 2500, right? 

I VERY highly doubt Ford would put the 7.3 in a F150 and it would be left for their SD lineup. It doesn't need the whole EPA MPG certification and they probably want to leave it that way. If they wanted big power, they'd likely take the supercharged 5.2 or supercharge the 5.0. 

 

23 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

True.

But I wanted to wax poetic about the 445 cubic inch pushrod V8 and the decision to make that engine available for sale to all. 

And the only way I could have done that, was to slightly skew the details in my favour. 

beverly hills cop ii | Tumblr

 

 But YOU just want to argue with me for whatever reason...

I make SEVERAL jokes about the whole thing in a very Eddie Murphy kinda way and YOU still want to crucify me...  INCLUDING the ORIGINAL explanation Axel Foley GIF and then I had to go FULL OUT scene dialogue JUST to settle the uneasiness...

Like...what do you want from me???!!!

ALL because I wanted to wax poetic about a FORD ENGINE ANYWAY... 

Its NOT as if I talked about a KIA engine... For Christ's sake...  

Like...let it go!!!

Edited by oldshurst442
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2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yeah...kinda like Axel Foley? 

But this was addressed a LOOOONG time ago....when CCAP asked me about it...

 

 But YOU just want to argue with me for whatever reason...

I make SEVERAL jokes about the whole thing in a very Eddie Murphy kinda way and YOU still want to crucify me...  INCLUDING the ORIGINAL explanation Axel Foley GIF and then I had to go FULL OUT scene dialogue JUST to settle the uneasiness...

Like...what do you want from me???!!!

ALL because I wanted to wax poetic about a FORD ENGINE ANYWAY... 

Its NOT as if I talked about a KIA engine... For Christ's sake...  

Like...let it go!!!

Ya missed the perfect response to him.

 

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'Xcept I dont care for Adam Lambert.  HE puts me to sleep...   :P    (you  see what I did there?)

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4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

'Xcept I dont care for Adam Lambert.  HE puts me to sleep...   :P    (you  see what I did there?)

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/29/2020 at 6:06 PM, ocnblu said:

Underwhelming overall.  When you have to look several times to "spot the differences", you know you're in trouble.

the frame is the same, the engines are the same, but it's "all new"? rrrrrrrright....

Ford's latest new entries have terribly cheap interiors (Explorer, Escape).  Rubbermaid has better plastics.  these pictures do not give confidence that the same won't be true here either.

Edited by regfootball

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On 7/2/2020 at 12:45 PM, riviera74 said:

More FORD news: The Lincoln Continental ends within the next year.  Another victim of the move to CUVs and SUVs.  Now Lincoln will be a CUV/SUV only brand.

https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2020/07/lincoln-dropping-continental/

the continental should have been cancelled before it hit the showroom floor.  it missed the mark badly in so many ways.  that said, like the CT6, it will be a fantastic used car be when the crap depreciates out of it.  Find one with like 30, 40 thousand miles and like 40% of the sticker price.  then its a darn nice car.

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11 hours ago, regfootball said:

the continental should have been cancelled before it hit the showroom floor.  it missed the mark badly in so many ways.  that said, like the CT6, it will be a fantastic used car be when the crap depreciates out of it.  Find one with like 30, 40 thousand miles and like 40% of the sticker price.  then its a darn nice car.

What did the Continental miss on?  It was Lincoln's turning point. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

What did the Continental miss on?  It was Lincoln's turning point. 

It was on a mediocre FWD/AWD/transverse engine platform...rental car hardware, nothing special.  Decent but bland styling also.   

Edited by Robert Hall
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2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

What did the Continental miss on?  It was Lincoln's turning point. 

First off ROOM inside. I could not sit comfy in the front and have anyone sit behind me. Even if a short person was upfront, I could not sit comfy in back but had to slouch due to no head room with a bunker sucking window view out. The car had style, but everything they could to cut corners they did including not making it a roomy true to life RWD Big Car that big people could sit in. Failure from the get go by Ford. Hard plastics on what was supposed to be the relaunch of luxury. Anything but that. So if you wanted to compare it, was a Ford version of a Kia.

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52 minutes ago, David said:

First off ROOM inside. I could not sit comfy in the front and have anyone sit behind me. Even if a short person was upfront, I could not sit comfy in back but had to slouch due to no head room with a bunker sucking window view out. The car had style, but everything they could to cut corners they did including not making it a roomy true to life RWD Big Car that big people could sit in. Failure from the get go by Ford. Hard plastics on what was supposed to be the relaunch of luxury. Anything but that. So if you wanted to compare it, was a Ford version of a Kia.

You can't fit comfy in anything though so that's a moot point. 

You'd complain about the rear seat space in an S-Class or a Range Rover..but not a CT6. 🤔

If they were doing everything to cut corners, it wouldn't have been the first Lincoln to have its own switchgear and engines not used from a Ford.

"The expansive rear seat provides plenty of room for passengers to stretch out, and options such as our test car’s $4300 Rear-Seat package make for a sybaritic experience back there, with heating, cooling, power-adjustable lumbar support, and powered recliners for the occupants. " - You're just massive

"All of the cabin's touch points are high-quality; Lincoln has created its own switchgear for the Continental (and eventually the rest of the Lincoln line) with knurled-metal control knobs on the steering wheel and A/C system, and unique turn-signal stalks. Just about the only Ford-style switchgear I could find in the cabin were the window switches on the doors, and the overhead storage binnacle mounted just forward of the optional panoramic moonroof. "

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Personally, I am amazed that the Continental was not based on a stretch Mustang platform instead of the one it used.  We could use a few more RWD cars, not fewer.  But it is what it is.

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49 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Personally, I am amazed that the Continental was not based on a stretch Mustang platform instead of the one it used.  We could use a few more RWD cars, not fewer.  But it is what it is.

Yeah, Ford probably saved a lot of money by using the Fusion platform, as they did with the MKZ.  

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2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

You can't fit comfy in anything though so that's a moot point. 

You'd complain about the rear seat space in an S-Class or a Range Rover..but not a CT6. 🤔

If they were doing everything to cut corners, it wouldn't have been the first Lincoln to have its own switchgear and engines not used from a Ford.

"The expansive rear seat provides plenty of room for passengers to stretch out, and options such as our test car’s $4300 Rear-Seat package make for a sybaritic experience back there, with heating, cooling, power-adjustable lumbar support, and powered recliners for the occupants. " - You're just massive

"All of the cabin's touch points are high-quality; Lincoln has created its own switchgear for the Continental (and eventually the rest of the Lincoln line) with knurled-metal control knobs on the steering wheel and A/C system, and unique turn-signal stalks. Just about the only Ford-style switchgear I could find in the cabin were the window switches on the doors, and the overhead storage binnacle mounted just forward of the optional panoramic moonroof. "

Wrong, I could fit Comfy in the old Continental of the 80's and 90's. The interior space is mid to compact at best. The old True Continental just like the Cadillac Brougham I could fit in just fine. The cars today are not full size of what they were and the legacy of a Continental was lost on this poorly executed car with cheap interior on top of a lack of space.

I have tried the CT6 and while I can as with any auto fold up and fit in, once the front seat is set for me, the back seat is still way too tight and not comfy. 

This is a Major Car Failure in the head room and comfort for back seat passengers has been lost. It is why I stick with full size SUVs. I can insure everyone has comfort, something todays cars cannot give.

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News Flash: Not every single car can be made for fit somebody 6' 6". That does not make them a failure. 

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35 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

News Flash: Not every single car can be made for fit somebody 6' 6". That does not make them a failure. 

True.  Not today, but in the olden days of tall, humpy cars, men could drive with a big hat on.  A 6’6” person probably could ride up front or in the back of a typical 1940 or 1950 car.   Different world...

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52 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

News Flash: Not every single car can be made for fit somebody 6' 6". That does not make them a failure. 

Your right not every car can or should be built to fit me. Yet when it comes to a Continental, a supposedly FULL SIZE sedan, then YES, HELL YES, The Continental should be full size and fit having men 6'6" tall in front AND back.

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Front head room 39 " Rear head room 38 " Front shoulder room 58 " Rear shoulder room 56 " Front hip room 56 " Rear hip room 55 " Front leg room 44.4 " (always measured as maximum) Rear leg room

41.3 " (always measured as minimum) - seems PLENTY roomy for anyone short of Sasquatch dimensions!

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8 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Front head room 39 " Rear head room 38 " Front shoulder room 58 " Rear shoulder room 56 " Front hip room 56 " Rear hip room 55 " Front leg room 44.4 " (always measured as maximum) Rear leg room

41.3 " (always measured as minimum) - seems PLENTY roomy for anyone short of Sasquatch dimensions!

Reality is always different than manipulated numbers. Having actually tried to fit in one, I know it will not fit a man with a 40" in seam of legs let alone a long body.

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3 minutes ago, David said:

Your right not every car can or should be built to fit me. Yet when it comes to a Continental, a supposedly FULL SIZE sedan, then YES, HELL YES, The Continental should be full size and fit having men 6'6" tall in front AND back.

6'6"

You are exactly 1 foot taller than me.  Well, 11.5 inches as I am 5' 6.5"  tall.   But...you are also a bodybuilding beefcake.  You are a monster of a man.  In ancient times, you would be the one the village would turn to to slay whatever monster plagues the village and they would write legendary myths about you saying you are the son of Poseidon  or the lovechild of Zeus and a nymph. 

In all honesty, even some 1960s fullsized cars, you would have a hard time fitting in. Some '60s cars got lower and sleeker.  Wider and longer, but lower and sleeker.

I bet, you would have a hard time being comfy in a 1963 Grand Prix  or 1964 Galaxie

1963 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX 2 DOOR HARDTOP

1964 Ford Galaxie 500XL | F220 | Indy 2015

Im also willing to bet, that GM's B-Body from 1977-1990 would be a very very tight fit.

1985 Chevrolet Caprice | Chevrolet caprice, Chevrolet, Chevy ...

 

So...an even smaller "fullsized" 2019 Continental would be an impossible fit for you. But you got to admit, this one was/is pretty dope...   

The Lincoln Continental Coach Door Edition Is All Sold Out

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Man, I wish Ford/GM would build a truly modern B body car again.  Do I have to get a Hyundai/KIA/Genesis to get one now?

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4 hours ago, David said:

Wrong, I could fit Comfy in the old Continental of the 80's and 90's. The interior space is mid to compact at best.

Continental now has 3 more inches front legroom, and 5 more inches rear legroom than a MB S550.

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

Man, I wish Ford/GM would build a truly modern B body car again.  Do I have to get a Hyundai/KIA/Genesis to get one now?

Hyundai "B-Body" ???
That's hilarious.

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14 hours ago, David said:

Your right not every car can or should be built to fit me. Yet when it comes to a Continental, a supposedly FULL SIZE sedan, then YES, HELL YES, The Continental should be full size and fit having men 6'6" tall in front AND back.

Name one full size sedan that somebody 6' 6" tall can drive and somebody 6' 6" can sit behind them..comfortably. 

I'd wager that number is zero unless you reach to Rolls that are basically SUV-sized. 

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13 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Name one full size sedan that somebody 6' 6" tall can drive and somebody 6' 6" can sit behind them..comfortably. 

I'd wager that number is zero unless you reach to Rolls that are basically SUV-sized. 

Maybe a Rolls-Royce Phantom.  But that is a very unusual, non-standard use case..unless you are an NBA baller driving around w/ his entourage of equally large ballers, most people don't have tall rear seat passengers.

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35 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Maybe a Rolls-Royce Phantom.  But that is a very unusual, non-standard use case..unless you are an NBA baller driving around w/ his entourage of equally large ballers, most people don't have tall rear seat passengers.

Exactly. 

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Posted (edited)

On further rumination, a minivan seems like it would be the ideal transport solution for a group of very talls.  Easier to get in and out of than a car or SUV, sliding doors, lots of headroom, etc.

Edited by Robert Hall

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4 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Name one full size sedan that somebody 6' 6" tall can drive and somebody 6' 6" can sit behind them comfortably. 

I'd wager that number is zero unless you reach to Rolls that are basically SUV-sized. 

Had no problem in the Cadillac Brougham. Loved that car.

image.png

The 1994 Lincoln Continental I was able to fit in just fine. Had one for a rental for a month in Texas. Very roomy.

image.png

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Maybe a Rolls-Royce Phantom.  But that is a very unusual, non-standard use case..unless you are an NBA baller driving around w/ his entourage of equally large ballers, most people don't have tall rear seat passengers.

 

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Exactly. 

Yea, you guys have never met my family. My oldest sister Lisa is 6'2" tall, average for the woman in my family. So for me, pretty much everyone is over 6' tall and so I have to have roomy auto's to haul family and friends.

After all, the PNW grows people as tall as the Evergreens here! :P 

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55 minutes ago, David said:

Had no problem in the Cadillac Brougham. Loved that car.

image.png

The 1994 Lincoln Continental I was able to fit in just fine. Had one for a rental for a month in Texas. Very roomy.

image.png

 

Yea, you guys have never met my family. My oldest sister Lisa is 6'2" tall, average for the woman in my family. So for me, pretty much everyone is over 6' tall and so I have to have roomy auto's to haul family and friends.

After all, the PNW grows people as tall as the Evergreens here! :P 

How about something that isn't 30+ years old. Let's say 2015-2020. 

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3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

How about something that isn't 30+ years old. Let's say 2015-2020. 

Only Escalade ESV, Yukon XL or Suburban for GM or Ford Expedition Max or Lincoln Navigator L  than. No cars really will fit as I have tried the CT6 and that fails once I have the front seat set for me, I cannot sit behind the front seat than and pretty much no one else can either. Todays Full Size cars are NOT the past full size cars.

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40 minutes ago, David said:

Only Escalade ESV, Yukon XL or Suburban for GM or Ford Expedition Max or Lincoln Navigator L  than. No cars really will fit as I have tried the CT6 and that fails once I have the front seat set for me, I cannot sit behind the front seat than and pretty much no one else can either. Todays Full Size cars are NOT the past full size cars.

Exactly.. That doesn't mean large cars are failures just because it doesn't fit YOU the way you'd like. They're still large and roomy vehicles. You're an exception to the rule when it comes to fitting people into vehicles. Fortunately, you can afford the vehicles that you and your family can fit comfortably in..because those you listed are all pretty dang pricey and they've also come a long way since being just trucks without a bed.

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Posted (edited)
Lincoln
Continental 2017-
2019 6.586
2018 8.758
2017 12.012
2016

5.261 

 

judging by their sales numbers, i would say simply being any kind of desirable car was what they badly missed on.  the weird styling and design was probably a big part of that missing the market.

that said, as a 4 or 5 year old car at 1/3 the price of MSRP as used, it would be a darn nice ride.

On 7/13/2020 at 10:12 AM, ccap41 said:

What did the Continental miss on?  It was Lincoln's turning point. 

 

Edited by regfootball

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Posted (edited)

2018 Audi A6 started at $51K (vs. the Continental's $46K) and only sold 10K units. Did it also 'fail at being any kind of desirable car'?

IF it actually was 'desirable', why didn't it sell 3 or 4 times the rate of the Continental?

Edited by balthazar
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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

2018 Audi A6 started at $51K (vs. the Continental's $46K) and only sold 10K units. Did it also 'fail at being any kind of desirable car'?

IF it actually was 'desirable', why didn't it sell 3 or 4 times the rate of the Continental?

Audi is being carried by the Q3 and especially the Q5.  Same with Lincoln and the Corsair, Navigator and Aviator.  Sadly, sedans are just icing on the CUV/SUV cake these days.

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On 7/13/2020 at 6:48 PM, David said:

Reality is always different than manipulated numbers.

"Manipulated"? Interior dimension calculations have been strictly defined since at least the 1960s. I have the charts for all interior dimensions for both my '64 and '59; exhaustive.

Meanwhile, we have modern cars today listing a front seat hiproom width as if there was no fat console up there. Why aren't all front seat hiproom number down by some 10" vs. rear seat numbers?
There's your manipulation.

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On 7/18/2020 at 12:44 AM, regfootball said:
Lincoln
Continental 2017-
2019 6.586
2018 8.758
2017 12.012
2016

5.261 

 

judging by their sales numbers, i would say simply being any kind of desirable car was what they badly missed on.  the weird styling and design was probably a big part of that missing the market.

that said, as a 4 or 5 year old car at 1/3 the price of MSRP as used, it would be a darn nice ride.

 

Sales is a poor measurement of a good or bad car and you know that. I never knew the Camry was the best car out there, ever. 

I would say their biggest miss was price to what you get ratio. It was pretty expensive for getting a Lincoln but I also understand if you believe you have a good quality product that you can't undercut your pricing.

On 7/18/2020 at 8:01 AM, balthazar said:

2018 Audi A6 started at $51K (vs. the Continental's $46K) and only sold 10K units. Did it also 'fail at being any kind of desirable car'?

IF it actually was 'desirable', why didn't it sell 3 or 4 times the rate of the Continental?

Exactly. Sales is a piss poor measurement of a good or bad product. 

Hell, people still buy Fiat 500's and they're garbage. They were selling between 25-43k units for a four year span. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Sales is a poor measurement of a good or bad car and you know that. I never knew the Camry was the best car out there, ever. 

I would say their biggest miss was price to what you get ratio. It was pretty expensive for getting a Lincoln but I also understand if you believe you have a good quality product that you can't undercut your pricing.

Exactly. Sales is a piss poor measurement of a good or bad product. 

Hell, people still buy Fiat 500's and they're garbage. They were selling between 25-43k units for a four year span. 

But he aint sayin' that the Lincoln was a bad car...

On 7/18/2020 at 1:44 AM, regfootball said:

judging by their sales numbers, i would say simply being any kind of desirable car was what they badly missed on. 

 

On 7/18/2020 at 9:01 AM, balthazar said:

2018 Audi A6 started at $51K (vs. the Continental's $46K) and only sold 10K units. Did it also 'fail at being any kind of desirable car'?

IF it actually was 'desirable', why didn't it sell 3 or 4 times the rate of the Continental?

 

You see, Balthy got it...but you didnt...

And while you got Reg's point of view wrong, you got the sales bad/good argument almost right.

Although, for the most part, that rings true, that sales do not equate how good or bad a product might or might not be,  sometimes...sales DO indicate how bad or good a product might or might not be...

A Ford F-150 has been the world's most selling pickup truck (and vehicle period...).  Year after year after year after year for the last 40-50 years.   

The Ford F-150 is a pretty good phoquing product.

The Nissan Titan sells like shyte...  The Nissan Titan is not so good of a product.

There is a reason why the F-150 leads in sales year after year, decade over decade over its Chevy and Dodge counterparts and especially Nissan...

Desirability  is  one factor.  It being an excellent product and probably better than its competition may be another factor...

 

Its just that I HATE the "sales is no indicator of how good a product is" argument.  Sales could be an indicator is alls Im sayin'.

Camry is an example given always.  McDonald's too.  And those examples are given as to say those are horrible products...

Well...how bad could they really be, if...year after year, decade after decade, the Camry and McDonald's Big Macs and Quarter Pounders (with cheese) STILL exist and STILL delight peoples ALL OVER the world?

Quality has sure gone down over the years and decades...sure...but peoples over the world know what a Camry and Big Mac is...and when listening to car and burger  connoisseurs on internet forums, you would think that these are the absolute WORST...but Toyota and McDonald's keeps on selling these things to peoples all over the world in tons year after year, decade after decade and make gabagoodillion amounts of money in doing so...

Just my opinion  and a different spin on this "sales does not equal" argument. 

 

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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Many many middle-age folk still fall back into that 1970s-1980s mindset that an American brand ‘must’ sell in high numbers, always, and foreign brands are these cutesy, niche products always above sales volume criticism of any sort. I guess some folk think european brands are still struggling to recover from WWII.

I literally just got that ‘explaination’ from someone trying to defend mercedes in the middle of the 1960s!! 😆


Despite Cadillac selling in it’s traditional volume range (once you eliminate peak periods), and in an EVER competitive segment, the brand is continually bashed on volume when audi does about the same, with a preponderous reliance on entry-level lines. Because; wildly outmoded mindsets.

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1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Quality has sure gone down over the years and decades...sure...but peoples over the world know what a Camry and Big Mac is...and when listening to car and burger  connoisseurs on internet forums, you would think that these are the absolute WORST...but Toyota and McDonald's keeps on selling these things to peoples all over the world in tons year after year, decade after decade and make gabagoodillion amounts of money in doing so..

I will say that this Pandemic has done one good thing for both McDonalds and Burger King. They went to a simple menu and while you cannot eat inside, Drive thru only, I did over the weekend take the time to make a quick lunch by going through with my mask on as is required and got a Bigmac and Fries and then on Sunday a Whopper and Fries.

Both burgers were actually pretty good and very hot. Fresh, not something I remember for either. Guess make to order for the drive through gets better quality right now. Tie between the two places.

Fries, McDonalds wins hands down. Hot, Crunchy with the right amount of salt, very tasty. Burger King were over salted, wimpy medium warm and no crunch.

Makes me wonder about other food places that have simplified their menu to stay going and do drive through only. I am hoping they have gone up on food quality too.

Around here, seems all the buffets are out of business and closed for good based on the news and the signage I have seen at the places when I drive by. Interesting is that I have not seen a McDonalds close for good, but I have seen plenty of Burger Kings, Wendys, Popeyes are all closed here. A few KFC and Pizza Huts are closed for good too. Very interesting times we live in.

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1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

But he aint sayin' that the Lincoln was a bad car...

He sure did. 

Continental.JPG

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5 hours ago, David said:

I will say that this Pandemic has done one good thing for both McDonalds and Burger King. They went to a simple menu and while you cannot eat inside, Drive thru only, I did over the weekend take the time to make a quick lunch by going through with my mask on as is required and got a Bigmac and Fries and then on Sunday a Whopper and Fries.

Both burgers were actually pretty good and very hot. Fresh, not something I remember for either. Guess make to order for the drive through gets better quality right now. Tie between the two places.

Fries, McDonalds wins hands down. Hot, Crunchy with the right amount of salt, very tasty. Burger King were over salted, wimpy medium warm and no crunch.

Makes me wonder about other food places that have simplified their menu to stay going and do drive through only. I am hoping they have gone up on food quality too.

Around here, seems all the buffets are out of business and closed for good based on the news and the signage I have seen at the places when I drive by. Interesting is that I have not seen a McDonalds close for good, but I have seen plenty of Burger Kings, Wendys, Popeyes are all closed here. A few KFC and Pizza Huts are closed for good too. Very interesting times we live in.

McDonald's down here simplified their menu at least a couple of months ago.  BK did not.  Wendy's, Popeyes, KFC are all open.  Basically any drive-thru restaurant stayed opened throughout this time.  An Applebee's down here was closed permanently about six weeks ago; the only Boston Market closed here at the end of February.  Most other places have either adapted or closed for a little while.  The buffet places were closed for several weeks (April-early June) before they reopened.

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McDs still has the best fast food fries.  I don't do a lot of fast food, but do love a quarter pounder w/ cheese and a side of fries occasionally...or one of their breakfast biscuit sandwiches.

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3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

McDs still has the best fast food fries.  I don't do a lot of fast food, but do love a quarter pounder w/ cheese and a side of fries occasionally...or one of their breakfast biscuit sandwiches.

McDonald's really shrank their breakfast menu too.  It's like half of what it was in February.  Their fries used to be the best, but they changed the cooking oil some years back.

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1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

McDonald's really shrank their breakfast menu too.  It's like half of what it was in February.  Their fries used to be the best, but they changed the cooking oil some years back.

Cooking oil used to be beef fat, high in trans fat, heart killing fat. 

They now use a Beef Flavored Vegi oil to cook the fries in.

Yes it does not have the strong flavor of true beef fat, but for my heart, I can go with the flavored vegi oil. :P 

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On 7/20/2020 at 10:35 AM, oldshurst442 said:

But he aint sayin' that the Lincoln was a bad car...

 

 

You see, Balthy got it...but you didnt...

And while you got Reg's point of view wrong, you got the sales bad/good argument almost right.

Although, for the most part, that rings true, that sales do not equate how good or bad a product might or might not be,  sometimes...sales DO indicate how bad or good a product might or might not be...

A Ford F-150 has been the world's most selling pickup truck (and vehicle period...).  Year after year after year after year for the last 40-50 years.   

The Ford F-150 is a pretty good phoquing product.

The Nissan Titan sells like shyte...  The Nissan Titan is not so good of a product.

There is a reason why the F-150 leads in sales year after year, decade over decade over its Chevy and Dodge counterparts and especially Nissan...

Desirability  is  one factor.  It being an excellent product and probably better than its competition may be another factor...

 

Its just that I HATE the "sales is no indicator of how good a product is" argument.  Sales could be an indicator is alls Im sayin'.

Camry is an example given always.  McDonald's too.  And those examples are given as to say those are horrible products...

Well...how bad could they really be, if...year after year, decade after decade, the Camry and McDonald's Big Macs and Quarter Pounders (with cheese) STILL exist and STILL delight peoples ALL OVER the world?

Quality has sure gone down over the years and decades...sure...but peoples over the world know what a Camry and Big Mac is...and when listening to car and burger  connoisseurs on internet forums, you would think that these are the absolute WORST...but Toyota and McDonald's keeps on selling these things to peoples all over the world in tons year after year, decade after decade and make gabagoodillion amounts of money in doing so...

Just my opinion  and a different spin on this "sales does not equal" argument. 

 

 

seeing everyone's additional comments here, all great points.

so then i'll just reinforce that I think in the case of the Continental (in the sedan market, a tough segment, being overpriced) that the styling of the car being flat out goofy and strange was a huge part of its deficiency in the market, no matter how good the car is.

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