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Item: 1964 Pontiac Grand Prix


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Posted (edited)

Ya- had it for years. What scale are the standard model kits- 1/25? That size.
 

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I don't have one, but have a couple of the annual model kits of the '64 (which share the promo tooling but w/ an opening hood and engine, extra parts).   '64 was the first year AMT made a Grand Prix kit or promo, they made them for '64 and '65.

Not sure I understood you - you have a '64 GP kit? Have a pic??

 

- - - - -
I had a coupe promo for the B-59, but it was a bit warped and I sold it.

Edited by balthazar
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7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Ya- had it for years. What scale are the standard model kits- 1/25? That size.
 

Not sure I understood you - you have a '64 GP kit? Have a pic??

 

- - - - -
I had a coupe promo for the B-59, but it was a bit warped and I sold it.

Yes, 1/25th is the US standard scale (1/24 for Japanese and European brands).   

I have two of the AMT '64 GP annuals (along with the '64 Bonneville ht & convertible)....both of mine were bought as built, one fairly well, one pretty rough.  They are in storage, but here is a pic of the '64 box art.   I also have the '59 Buick annual kits (ht & conv), along w/ all the full size Buicks from '60-66 along w/ the '69 & 70 (there were no full size Buick kits for '67-68 or after '70). 

 

AMT-6654-2.jpg

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26 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Would you be interested in parting with one of each?  

Maybe in the future once I get them out of storage.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Cracked all 16 head bolts loose, pulled the valley pan (nothing to report beneath it). Bolts broke loose fairly easily.
Took A/C compressor out. Next step is jacking car up & going underneath to investigate separation from exhaust & transmission.

AE1E4050-6EC3-4CEE-B682-92E89B39CD92.jpeg

Edited by balthazar
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Posted (edited)

^^^

I always loved the way Pontiac shaped their hoods and front ends into the design to incorporate their arrowhead.  Everything comes to a peak and a point. And the center of it all is that arrowhead that is the center piece of that middle point in the hood. And on the front end, that famous Pontiac beak nose would be front and center. And sometimes that beak nose would house that famous Pontiac arrowhead instead of the hood.  

LOVE IT!!! 

 

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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There's always been a bit of nebulous info out there RE P-64s; it's said that in GTO's the starter is mounted to the block, enabling transmissions changes at will. I've further heard this was the same for Grand Prixs... but my car is an early build (4th week of October '63), and via direct observation; my car's starter is mounted to the transmission bellhousing. That's 'one more straw' against changing out the trans, so I'm going to stick with the original Roto HydraMatic. 

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17 hours ago, balthazar said:

There's always been a bit of nebulous info out there RE P-64s; it's said that in GTO's the starter is mounted to the block, enabling transmissions changes at will. I've further heard this was the same for Grand Prixs... but my car is an early build (4th week of October '63), and via direct observation; my car's starter is mounted to the transmission bellhousing. That's 'one more straw' against changing out the trans, so I'm going to stick with the original Roto HydraMatic. 

Interested to watch the progres here...

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2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Motor/trans pull imminent...

Pictures Please :) 

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Disconnected: starter wire, shift linkage, trans mount, some sort of heat shield, 1 motor mount bolt, speedo cable.
Left: other motor mount bolt, oil pressure wire, coil wire (to harness). Fun laying under a cob-web-dripping, rust flaking car undoing fasteners last tightened in 1964.

Talked to my friend who's motor is in the shop right now- he says maybe another week or 2. Them my bro's '65 GTO motor goes in, with a promised '2.5-3 month' turnaround. Then mine.

Mine is going to be a dream- so many pieces cleaned, painted, threaded chased, etc. Going to completely disassemble the motor other than the valves/valve springs. Plus it's all original- no whackadoodle retro-fits to figure out.

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Posted (edited)

UPDATE : My brother has bowed out of the engine rebuild pecking order; he's way too busy with work & building a garage/apartment addition at his place, which means I'm up next. Going to try to hold the builder to the promised '3 month turnaround'. But now I have to shift into overdrive and get this out & prepped. 

Moved some stuff around in Bay 3 to make room for the cherry picker moving around/planning The Yank. Then got sidetracked cutting the bum steel wheels off a 1940’s dress stand to convert it into a floor lamp (has an interesting cast iron 4-leg base).

Edited by balthazar
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WOW, look those inefficient headers. @balthazar are you going to put modern headers on it or stay with these factory flow colliding headers?

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Posted (edited)

Tube headers have their own set of problems.
There are repro 'long-branch' cast headers, but they are 1. out of stock, 2. extremely heavy, 3. $600 (plus shipping).
The short 'Ram Air' cast manifolds only add about 10 HP, kinda a poor return for $450.

Exactly like aerodynamics; it's hard to look at a part and tell how well/poor it handles airflow.

Edited by balthazar
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Automobile magazine / Robert Cumberford's analysis. He actually worked in GM Styling about 1954-58 (he's 85-yrs old now), but I can tell he's looking only at a few pics and making a lot of assumptions (and errors). For example- he calls the thin steering wheel rim a "GM conceit" when it was without question a global occurrence. He quizzically states 'gauges, gauges everywhere and not a thing to read'.

Lastly; thin whitewall tires were "enormously fun to draw"??? 

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/1964-pontiac-grand-prix/

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Bit of a pickle : with engine stuck I cannot easily disconnect the transmission. Need to rotate the flywheel to disconnect from torque converter.... no rotate-O.

Going to have to basically completely disassemble the engine and try to manual work the pistons free. 

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13 hours ago, balthazar said:

Bit of a pickle : with engine stuck I cannot easily disconnect the transmission. Need to rotate the flywheel to disconnect from torque converter.... no rotate-O.

Going to have to basically completely disassemble the engine and try to manual work the pistons free. 

At least then you will learn what froze it up. Bummer though, lots of work to get it done. Wishing you all the best and hopefully once the one item that has frozen frees  up, it will go smoothly for you.

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Drained the rest of the fluids out & took the heads off today. Nothing of note in the bore other than some old carbon. Wiped them clean, hammered on each piston with a wood block/hammer, squirted them up with plentiful Kroil, hammered again, tried turning but nothing. Will let soak.

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Made 4x4 'pestle' out of wood, beat harder on the pistons, about 10 times in 2 circuits, and they broke free. Worked the crank back & forth, until I had free movement and numerous rotations. I suspect that the 2 cylinders that did NOT drain the Marvel Mystery Oil out were the culprits. 
Got the trans disconnected and separated. Happiness. 

IMG_3675.jpg

Roto HydraMatic has no torque converter! 
 

IMG_3674.jpg

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