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Cadillac News: 2023 Cadillac LYRIQ Reveal, A New Standard for the 21st Century and Beyond!


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Personally, and from experience with what every single company ever has done, I very much expect the AWD performance model to not be offered on the base trim and it'll be a pretty penny more than the base model. 

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Why can't families haul families in 5-seat vehicles?

LOL Im an only child...I LOVE to hear stories like that.   I have ALWAYS been OK without having any siblings. Only two times in my life I think that it sucked that I didnt have any brothers

It has the longest range of any EV, the best interior of any EV, biggest screen of any car.  They got a lot right. Personally I am not a fan of the rounded off exterior styling, it doesn't have c

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6 hours ago, ccap41 said:

It was a question based on 4 door SUVs not being considered "family haulers", brought up by others. 

"family haulers" need three rows...? Most families are less than four people(3.14, to be exact). 

MMm... pie.

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I think a big question is how much more for all wheel drive, and whether that requires a lot of other feature add ons, like interior stuff that isn't related to mechanical things.  And that price jump to AWD will probably have a big impact on sales, because a lot of SUV buyers will want AWD.

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45 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think a big question is how much more for all wheel drive, and whether that requires a lot of other feature add ons, like interior stuff that isn't related to mechanical things.  And that price jump to AWD will probably have a big impact on sales, because a lot of SUV buyers will want AWD.

No. The question is why does it matter. All companies do this with entry level (which, in this case, is still very nice) models and then adding more expensive models with more options like AWD and more power. Take Benz for example. They do that with the AMG lineup yet folks like you don’t blink twice at the obscene price jump so it should not be any different for Cadillac regardless of how much more a higher performance AWD model is. Much like base model E-Class autos with glorified pleather seats, it gets the customer in the door so I see zero problem here while you are trying to make up a problem. 

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27 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

No. The question is why does it matter. All companies do this with entry level (which, in this case, is still very nice) models and then adding more expensive models with more options like AWD and more power. Take Benz for example. They do that with the AMG lineup yet folks like you don’t blink twice at the obscene price jump so it should not be any different for Cadillac regardless of how much more a higher performance AWD model is. Much like base model E-Class autos with glorified pleather seats, it gets the customer in the door so I see zero problem here while you are trying to make up a problem. 

But AWD is $2,000 option on and XT5 or XT6.  If it is $15k on a Lyriq, that may scare customers away.  And that is a probably with any EV.  

And Mercedes will sell an all wheel drive E300, they don't force you into an AMG E63 to get the all wheel drive model.

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8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And Mercedes will sell an all wheel drive E300, they don't force you into an AMG E63 to get the all wheel drive model.

You missed the point of that by a country mile (nevermind the fact we have now gone from a $10K jump to a $15K because apparently that makes for a better exaggeration). They do if you want performance to go with that AWD (the GLC alone requires a $16K bump if you want AWD and an actual powertrain that will move it). Besides, until they release an AWD model, you are just assuming the worst about it, as per the usual. 

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6 hours ago, David said:

:facepalm: Seems no matter how many times I post the link people seem to not read when I do post that the LYRIQ will be available in RWD and AWD.

All Press Releases here:

Cadillac Pressroom - United States - LYRIQ

The Original press release that covers the power train options:

LYRIQ Show Car Leads Cadillac Into Electric Future

QUOTE: 

LYRIQ, the Ultium battery system is a structural element of the architecture, integrated in ways that contribute to ride and handling, as well as safety. In fact, the lower center of gravity and near 50/50 weight distribution enabled by the placement of the battery pack results in a vehicle that’s sporty, responsive and allows for spirited driving.

Additionally, the LYRIQ is driven primarily by the rear wheels, with a performance all-wheel drive option available. The placement of the drive motor at the rear of the vehicle contributes an even greater feeling of balance and agility — attributes that affirm Cadillac’s longstanding commitment to satisfying performance. It also enables the system to channel more torque to the pavement without wheelspin for exhilarating acceleration and greater cornering capability. Vehicles equipped with performance all-wheel drive go a step further, with a second drive unit placed at the front of the vehicle, which allows for a significant amount of tuning flexibility, enhancing vehicle dynamics and performance for drivers.

the AWD won't be ready at launch is what the criticism is, that and yes, GM will make it 10 grand or more, more, for all wheel drive.

And even then you probably won't get a bunch of safety equipment or certain features like the HD surround view backup camera view included.  the GM way.

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47 minutes ago, regfootball said:

the AWD won't be ready at launch is what the criticism is, that and yes, GM will make it 10 grand or more, more, for all wheel drive.

And even then you probably won't get a bunch of safety equipment or certain features like the HD surround view backup camera view included.  the GM way.

AWD will come later.  It dont matter. You want AWD, you'll have to wait. It will come. No problems there. Unless you wanna make it into a problem. But it is a non-issue, really.

Second part.

Not the GM way.  That is kinda more like the Porsche way.  And there is NOTHING wrong with that as THAT kinda way brings in the money. TONS of it.  And seeing that strategy will be on a Cadillac...NOT a Chevrolet.  It really is not a big deal, but a SMART move. 

Cadillac shouldnt be in bargaining selling mode. Cadillac, while producing high quality, should also be charging high prices. And if it means by charging an arm and a leg  for certain little extra things,  then so be it!   Its the Porsche luxury market way... 

Edited by oldshurst442
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1 hour ago, regfootball said:

the AWD won't be ready at launch is what the criticism is, that and yes, GM will make it 10 grand or more, more, for all wheel drive.

And even then you probably won't get a bunch of safety equipment or certain features like the HD surround view backup camera view included.  the GM way.

Actually the early comments here were about it possibly not having AWD at all, which is why David posted that again. 

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It should be noted, while some folks here are bitching about a hypothetical price jump with AWD, that the Lyriq undercuts two of its competitors in the segment, the Jaguar I-Pace ($70K with LESS range) and the Audi E-Tron ($67K, also with less range) so even if AWD is $10K, it is right in line with the competition so maybe these phantom complaints should sit this out until its known for certain what AWD will cost.

Edited by surreal1272
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2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

You missed the point of that by a country mile (nevermind the fact we have now gone from a $10K jump to a $15K because apparently that makes for a better exaggeration). They do if you want performance to go with that AWD (the GLC alone requires a $16K bump if you want AWD and an actual powertrain that will move it). Besides, until they release an AWD model, you are just assuming the worst about it, as per the usual. 

The GLC300 4Matic is faster than XT4 or XT5 and the Lexus RX350, so you don't need to pay extra for enough power to move it.  

And true we don't know what the price premium will be for AWD, but this is a general issue with EV's in cold climates, batteries degrade faster and AWD is a huge upcharge, so it is a harder sell for an EV in cold climates than it is in California or Florida.

I would hope Lyric has the AWD option at launch, I think if they wait to see how the rear drive model sells for a year before green lighting all wheel drive would be a mistake.

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1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Cadillac shouldnt be in bargaining selling mode. Cadillac, while producing high quality, should also be charging high prices. And if it means by charging an arm and a leg  for certain little extra things,  then so be it!   Its the Porsche luxury market way... 

Cadillac shouldn't be in bargain selling mode, but they have been.  Cadillac is a far, far cry away from Porsche pricing levels or their pricing model.  I just hopped on the Porsche website and picked a 911 Carerra 4, and was able to add $76,420 in options and I didn't pick everything.  The Escalade's base price is $76,195, so you can add a whole Escalade worth of options to a 911, and that is without going to a 4S or Cabriolet or anything.  

It is a good way to make money if you can get away with it. I don't think Cadillac can get away with charging $2070 for leather lined air vents.

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32 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The GLC300 4Matic is faster than XT4 or XT5 and the Lexus RX350, so you don't need to pay extra for enough power to move it.

Good grief bar mover. It’s more expensive than all of those (not to mention the XT4 is a whole class smaller), and it’s only rocking a four banger at entry level. Just stop and pay attention to what’s actually being said instead of making up new criteria and kicking that bar around. 

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I don't think Cadillac can get away with charging $2070 for leather lined air vents.

Why in the F would they? All that proves is that Porsche buyers have more money than sense. Just a stupid, stupid comparison. 

Edited by surreal1272
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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The GLC300 4Matic is faster than XT4 or XT5 and the Lexus RX350, so you don't need to pay extra for enough power to move it.  

And true we don't know what the price premium will be for AWD, but this is a general issue with EV's in cold climates, batteries degrade faster and AWD is a huge upcharge, so it is a harder sell for an EV in cold climates than it is in California or Florida.

I would hope Lyric has the AWD option at launch, I think if they wait to see how the rear drive model sells for a year before green lighting all wheel drive would be a mistake.

First off you have NO IDEA if the Ultium battery and power train system will have degradation in cold climates as there is no evidence of this and NO YOU CANNOT compare it to what the Leaf, BOLT, Tesla, etc. of anything compliance EV has done in the past.

For all we know in a cold climate the GM BEV built on the Ultium system will have Zero degradation while Mercedes Benz will end up with a 50% reduction in battery life once in a cold climate. After all MB has FAILED to deliver any other BEV to this market and so far very little is known about their battery pack in butt below zero cold Canada or Alaska where you could be 50 below zero.

Searching extensively across the internet, it is interesting that while you find interviews of MB future of batteries:

The future of electric-car batteries, according to Mercedes | DrivingElectric

MB actually avoids answering the question of battery degradation which makes one wonder how bad their current battery degradation is since their Compliance B-Class lost over 50% when it went into cold freezing climates compared to actual real world results for Tesla and Chevrolet BOLT.

 

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The Mercedes battery, which is of their own design, not some off the shelf Panosonic or LG, has the individual cells temperature controlled, where as everyone cools the pack as a whole.  This is why a Tesla has a few 0-60 runs in it before the pack overheats.  The Mercedes battery will allow you to do drag race runs all day.  
 

Mercedes has F1 technology coming to the road with their EVs and AMG Hybrids, GM, Toyota, Tesla, Ford have no F1 technology.

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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The Mercedes battery, which is of their own design, not some off the shelf Panosonic or LG, has the individual cells temperature controlled, where as everyone cools the pack as a whole.  This is why a Tesla has a few 0-60 runs in it before the pack overheats.  The Mercedes battery will allow you to do drag race runs all day.  
 

Mercedes has F1 technology coming to the road with their EVs and AMG Hybrids, GM, Toyota, Tesla, Ford have no F1 technology.

Really? Their own “design”? Well, they may have “designed” it but that’s it.

 

“Mercedes-Benz will source batteries from Chinese firm CATL for its upcoming EQS electric car. Scheduled to launch in certain markets next year, the electric luxury sedan is targeting a range of 435 miles, as measured on the European WLTP testing cycle.”

 

And you think that’s an up sell for Mercedes? LMMFAO!!

 

Sorry, but I’ll trust LG and their decades of experience on Batteries over some no name Chinese company. It’s also not some “off the shelf” battery either. Where in the hell do you come up with this nonsense? 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

not some off the shelf Panosonic or LG

How to say “I don’t know what I’m talking about” without actually saying “I don’t know what I’m talking about”.😆

Edited by surreal1272
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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Mercedes battery, which is of their own design, not some off the shelf Panosonic or LG, has the individual cells temperature controlled, where as everyone cools the pack as a whole.  This is why a Tesla has a few 0-60 runs in it before the pack overheats.  The Mercedes battery will allow you to do drag race runs all day.  
 

Mercedes has F1 technology coming to the road with their EVs and AMG Hybrids, GM, Toyota, Tesla, Ford have no F1 technology.

First off, MB is NOT a battery pack of their own design, it is a JOINT R&D between MB and CATL of China. Second, CATL will produce the final joint designed Lithium Ion battery cells to be used in a battery pack by MB.

深化合作,引领未来,宁德时代成为梅赛德斯-奔驰电池领域头部供应商 (catl.com)

Click the link, it will auto convert to English for you if your using a modern browser.

This was also covered here by Bloomberg. 

Mercedes-Benz and CATL as a major supplier team up for leadership in future battery technology - Bloomberg

MB has started LIMITED PRODUCTION of the battery cells at their own German R&D site, 

Mercedes-EQ starts production of battery systems for the new EQS | Daimler > Innovation > Digitalisation > Industry 4.0

Interesting observation is that they are using a similar design as gm Ultium battery system, rectangular packs of cells allowing them to have various sizes of the over all battery pack with an integrated liquid cooling system just like gm, ford, VW, Audi, Porsche, etc. etc. etc.

image.png

MB has production in various locations and is using an 8-1-1 of rare earth elements for their cells. Nothing ground breaking in the design.

Global battery production network of Mercedes-Benz | Daimler > Innovation > Digitalisation > Industry 4.0

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Back to our scheduled LYRIQ discussion, very exciting to see the second battery plant for Ultium battery packs being built in Spring Hill Tennessee.

GM and LG Energy Solution Investing $2.3 Billion in 2nd Ultium Cells Manufacturing Plant in U.S.

Interesting observation is that if your Full size truck or SUV you get 800V / 375kWH recharging battery packs, but for everything else, is a 400V / 200 kWH battery pack.

I honestly think this is a mistake as gm should just standardize on allowing all auto's to have the 800V / 375 kWH recharging.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/27/2021 at 10:53 PM, David said:

First off you have NO IDEA if the Ultium battery and power train system will have degradation in cold climates as there is no evidence of this and NO YOU CANNOT compare it to what the Leaf, BOLT, Tesla, etc. of anything compliance EV has done in the past.

For all we know in a cold climate the GM BEV built on the Ultium system will have Zero degradation while Mercedes Benz will end up with a 50% reduction in battery life once in a cold climate. After all MB has FAILED to deliver any other BEV to this market and so far very little is known about their battery pack in butt below zero cold Canada or Alaska where you could be 50 below zero.

Searching extensively across the internet, it is interesting that while you find interviews of MB future of batteries:

The future of electric-car batteries, according to Mercedes | DrivingElectric

MB actually avoids answering the question of battery degradation which makes one wonder how bad their current battery degradation is since their Compliance B-Class lost over 50% when it went into cold freezing climates compared to actual real world results for Tesla and Chevrolet BOLT.

 

considering all batteries underperform once temperatures drop, its not really possible that GM will develop something that eliminates that problem, much less make a notable dent in that problem.

that's going to be the unfortunate stigma electric cars will have for decades, notably to substantially less range in cold parts of the season.

IOW, zero degradation is a pipe dream.

Edited by regfootball
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^ But you see; in the 1870s the plow horse would move slower in the winter too, and sometimes the dry weather would cause his hooves to chafe, so it's really the same thing.

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14 hours ago, regfootball said:

considering all batteries underperform once temperatures drop, its not really possible that GM will develop something that eliminates that problem, much less make a notable dent in that problem.

that's going to be the unfortunate stigma electric cars will have for decades, notably to substantially less range in cold parts of the season.

IOW, zero degradation is a pipe dream.

So in other words, not much different than the early decades of ICE before they started to focus on MPG. Some were terrible in comparison to others that did much better for burning fuel based on temperatures.

We have to start somewhere and I am sure gm as well as others are looking at the auto's that are out there including Tesla which has been benchmarked by many OEMs in their battery tech.

I agree that Zero Degradation is a pipe dream, but I do not seen why with proper engineering of the battery cell, battery packaging and temperature management that you cannot reduce the drop in extreme cold or hot to be a very small thing.

Over all, be it BEV or ICE, extreme weather affects all.

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Posted (edited)

the mpg drop in states like mine (no comment) have the specially formulated winter gas that is likely as least as much responsible for the mpg loss, as much as the cold weather itself is responsible.  And even then, its sort of engine size dependent.  My 1.5 Malibu would see up to a 25% hit with its tiny turbo, but normally was about 10-15%.  Otherwise, the v6 vehicles I've had have seen about that 10-12 and when its really cold, 15%.  On road trips in cold weather, not too much loss, especially once the car itself warms up from the heat by product of the ICE.

Edited by regfootball
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