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Will Competition Destroy Tesla?


David

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3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/en/instance/ko/The-new-EQS-ENERGIZING-AIR-CONTROL-Plus.xhtml?oid=49404671

Filter removes over 99.65% of all particles.

https://www.motoring.com.au/mercedes-eqs-cabin-air-as-good-as-operating-theatre-127936/

"So proud of the clean air achieved by its new climate control, Mercedes has had its filtration system certified according to the stringent DIN EN 1822 standard, with the car-maker claiming no other car currently on sale offers cleaner cabin air."

So MB DOES NOT state it follows the DIN EN 1822 standard as it is not stated anywhere on their web sites. Motoring has never had a problem quoting false data also, so while the 1822 standard is a Hepa Standard for Europe.

EN 1822 Standard. Absolute Filters (EPA, HEPA and ULPA) | Venfilter Air filters and industrial ventilation

Again, MB does not state it as such. The ZG 250-1 certification seems to be a made up certification by MB and Anyone can state their product filter removes a high percentage of particles, but that is an OPEN book on how they test their own product.

Where is the independent testing to back this up?

As an OPTIONAL add on, that also means the whole ventilation system is compromised so 99.65% is pretty much impossible to enforce.

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19 minutes ago, David said:

So MB DOES NOT state it follows the DIN EN 1822 standard as it is not stated anywhere on their web sites. Motoring has never had a problem quoting false data also, so while the 1822 standard is a Hepa Standard for Europe.

EN 1822 Standard. Absolute Filters (EPA, HEPA and ULPA) | Venfilter Air filters and industrial ventilation

Again, MB does not state it as such. The ZG 250-1 certification seems to be a made up certification by MB and Anyone can state their product filter removes a high percentage of particles, but that is an OPEN book on how they test their own product.

Where is the independent testing to back this up?

As an OPTIONAL add on, that also means the whole ventilation system is compromised so 99.65% is pretty much impossible to enforce.

Mercedes says over 99.65% of particles, I'll take their word for it.  And that matches Tesla's 99.7%, and we know Tesla is more likely to round up numbers than Mercedes is.  

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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes says over 99.65% of particles, I'll take their word for it.  And that matches Tesla's 99.7%, and we know Tesla is more likely to round up numbers than Mercedes is.  

If MB is so great and reliable, then why do they not post their actual testing and certification of the process?

Why is there no details of what 99.65% of what particles?

What size Hepa filter is this?

So many unanswered questions with a fictional certification.

Tesla at least posts their testing and Hepa Filter size.

Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test | Tesla

image.png

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8 minutes ago, David said:

If MB is so great and reliable, then why do they not post their actual testing and certification of the process?

Why is there no details of what 99.65% of what particles?

What size Hepa filter is this?

So many unanswered questions with a fictional certification.

Tesla at least posts their testing and Hepa Filter size.

Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test | Tesla

image.png

23.5 inches by 16.2 inches and 1.6 inches thick, 10 liter volume

https://insideevs.com/news/501198/mercedes-benz-eqs-world-premiere/

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15 minutes ago, balthazar said:

It's a HEPA filter, does anyone really care about this??
Every time you open a door or the windows, every time you enter the car with shoes, clothing, hair; air quality is rendered moot.

They care in China where the air quality is terrible.  And maybe Los Angeles or NYC where congestion is bad, outside of that probably not.

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Nah...its about chemical warfare.

And ze Germans (Mercedes) know a thing or two about that from their recent but past history... ☠️  

8)

Sorry @David  

Stay safe everyone! 

Get your HEPA filters to compliment your masks now!   😷

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by oldshurst442
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10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They care in China where the air quality is terrible.  And maybe Los Angeles or NYC where congestion is bad, outside of that probably not.

Maybe you missed the point there. You still have to get out of your car in those places. 

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15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 No passenger car could run 2 hours around a track near redline 80% of the time without everything over heating and the engine probably dying, let alone do that in 7 races, 7 qualifying sessions and 21 practice sessions.  

Which includes AMG's street cars... 

But in all seriousness, I don't think ANY vehicle's engine and transmission could NOT withstand that. I'm almost certain brakes on all of those vehicles will fail before blowing an engine or transmission up. 

A crazy air filtration system is just a gimmick to advertise something "neat". I really don't see the point of it, but I guess it's a neat thing... 

16 hours ago, David said:

Agree that is a big issue and goes with the bunker style of you cannot see out of the auto very well, just sucks along with the overall jelly bean look.

I don't even really think it is bunker-style as the side windows clearly have a lot of window. 

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16 hours ago, David said:

Is it the distraction of solar panels, Wall Power, Space X, etc., etc., etc.,

SpaceX is it's own private company and financially has nothing to do with Tesla. 

The Tesla solar panels and Wall Power are part of Tesla though. 

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24 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

SpaceX is it's own private company and financially has nothing to do with Tesla. 

The Tesla solar panels and Wall Power are part of Tesla though. 

Yes Space X is it's own company run by the same CEO as Tesla, so Yes it does matter as he is distracted on how to live on Mars and send people there. His focus is NOT on Tesla only, just like the solar panels or wall power. He is a distracted CEO that is hurting IMHO not helping Tesla as much as he should be.

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17 minutes ago, David said:

Yes Space X is it's own company run by the same CEO as Tesla, so Yes it does matter as he is distracted on how to live on Mars and send people there. His focus is NOT on Tesla only, just like the solar panels or wall power. He is a distracted CEO that is hurting IMHO not helping Tesla as much as he should be.

I don't think there is some crazy "distraction level" that's making Tesla non-profitable. He's not there doing day-to-day activities. He's strictly making company-wide decisions. 

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3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think there is some crazy "distraction level" that's making Tesla non-profitable. He's not there doing day-to-day activities. He's strictly making company-wide decisions. 

We will see as 2025 is not that far off when clearly 100's of BEVs are going to be on the market and we will know then if Tesla can survive on it's own or not. I am thinking not!

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1 hour ago, David said:

We will see as 2025 is not that far off when clearly 100's of BEVs are going to be on the market and we will know then if Tesla can survive on it's own or not. I am thinking not!

What happens in 2025 that "we will see"? Do you really think they'll be gone in only 3.5 years because Musk is a CEO of SpaceX as well? 

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

1. Tesla will still be here in ‘25.
2. There won’t be ‘200+’ BE’s on the market by ‘25.

According to the current released numbers, here is what each auto maker says they will have on the global market in BEVs by 2025 to 2030:

  • Honda / Acura - Using GM Ultium batteries and powertrain - 2 in 2024, 8 by 2030
  • BMW / Mini / Rolls Royce - 12 models by 2025, full lineup electric for all brands by 2030
  • Ford / Lincoln - 8 models by 2025, all electric by 2035
  • gm - Chevrolet/GMC/Buick/Cadillac - 30 models by 2025, world wide fully electric on all brands by 2035
  • Volkswagen - 50 models by 2025, world wide fully electric by 2030
  • Audi - 5 models by 2025, pure electric by 2035
  • Bentley - 8 models by 2025, pure bev only by 2030
  • Nissan - 12 models by 2025, electric only by 2035
  • Toyota - 6 models by 2025, others as demand increases
  • Subaru - 6 models by 2025, full hybrid in all product lines by 2035, possible all electric by 2050
  • Hyundai/Kia/Genesis - 23 models by 2025
  • Volvo - 8 models by 2025, all electric by 2030
  • Mazda - 3 models by 2025, all electric by 2050
  • Daimler/Mercedes-Benz/Smart - 6 models by 2025, electric only by 2040
  • Mitsubishi - 6 models by 2025, all hybrid by 2025, pure electric by 2050
  • Stellantis - 100 models by 2025, all electric by 2030
  • Maserati - 6 models by 2025, all electric by by 2030
  • Jaguar Land Rover - 12 models by 2025, electric only by 2035
  • Tesla - 6 models by 2025 not including commercial products. Company pure EV already
  • Rivian - 3 by 2025, future products undefined at this time
  • Lordstown - 1 model by 2022, undefined for the future, latest legal problems could imply the company might close
  • Lucid - 2 models by 2022, 5 by 2025, undefined past 2025 at this time
  • Bollinger - 1 model in 2022, 3 by 2025, undefined past 2025
  • Geely - New EV division of the parent company, to use their Sea EV Platform to produce 2 models by 2022, 6 models by 2025 with global sales.
  • 100 pure electric start ups in China, what if any actually make it out of the country, but many choices across Asia.

These Automakers Now Plan an All-Electric Future - The Detroit Bureau

Stellantis reveals key details of electrification plans - electrive.com

Volvo Confirms All EV Plan by 2030 with Internet Only Sales | MotorWeek

Here Are Automakers' Plans for Adding More Electric Vehicles to Their Lineups - Consumer Reports

Plus got the numbers from the various auto companies press releases on their web site.

This list which I know is not complete, implies that 327 models of BEVs will be on sale globally by 2025 with more un-identified brands / startups. I think Tesla will have a challenge on their hands from the largest OEMs, not to mention smaller startups especially in China.

47 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

What happens in 2025 that "we will see"? Do you really think they'll be gone in only 3.5 years because Musk is a CEO of SpaceX as well? 

Tesla will not be gone, but I question if they will be the company they are today, especially independent. 

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3 hours ago, balthazar said:

You. Said. "by 2025".
 
You're doin' an 'smk'.

LOL, No, I am not. I only added up the auto's they say would be out by 2025 and that was 327 BEVs out by 2025. The number is higher if I added in the other auto's they say they will have by 2030 or later. I also did not take the time to post the numbers for past 2025 as I focused on the BEVs that they are saying they will have out by 2025. 

Call me info overload if you want, but wanted to clearly state what each vendor I listed was saying about by 2025 which is the focus on BEVs right now and long term plans as I believe that those later dates for going pure EV as you have stated will get pushed out for some, pulled in for others.

It was an interesting exercise in looking at all their websites for press releases about BEV releases and searching for it on the internet.

A very interesting listing I believe.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, balthazar said:

... and almost every car at a loss.

Worth it for the growth rate they have, up 50% last year (when the industry overall was down 16%) and up 54% this year.  

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