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Lincoln News: 2022 First BEV, All BEV by 2030 as Lincoln Celebrates it 100th Anniversary in 2022


David

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51 minutes ago, David said:

While you and everyone knows I love my SUVs and Trucks, I am honestly EXCITED that they will have the Zephyr BEV for those that still want a car. Smart to still have an option so that they do not push away potential buyers.

I want the Zephyr to succeed but history does not suggest it, is my concern here. Ev or not, luxury folks just won't give the domestics a second look when comes to sedans, outside of the Tesla cult. That could change and I hope it does but I just don't see it currently.

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1 hour ago, David said:

While you and everyone knows I love my SUVs and Trucks, I am honestly EXCITED that they will have the Zephyr BEV for those that still want a car. Smart to still have an option so that they do not push away potential buyers.

While I, personally, don't really care if they offer a car or not, there really are still plenty of people who want cars. I'm in a couple Lincoln Facebook pages and there are quite a few who still want cars and want to upgrade from their Continental or MKZ to a new one but they don't exist. 

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18 hours ago, balthazar said:

One of the largest Mercedes (& other euro 'lux' brand) mega-dealers in my state lines a row of refrigerator-white cargo vans next to e- and s-class cars on the front line of their lot. They absolutely are sold via the same dealerships. Daimler bungled that opportunity royally, but that's old news.

It could be in the same dealer, the same way Chevrolet and Cadillac can be in the same dealership, but they are separate brands/dealer contracts.  Not all Mercedes dealers can sell vans, there are 3 in Pittsburgh, only 1 has vans.

10 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Yet you seem to think the EQS SEDAN will sell well because….

Because Mercedes sells more $100k+ cars than anyone else in the world.  Their customer base shops in that price bracket, and they have a big customer base.

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9 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think you've read a single Lincoln review, let alone sat in one. 

You'd think a fanboy such as yourself would know it's  "G-wagen". 

What Lincoln is class leading or even top 3?   Aren't they like the 8th best selling luxury brand in the USA?  And probably not even top 10 globally.

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21 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It could be in the same dealer, the same way Chevrolet and Cadillac can be in the same dealership, but they are separate brands/dealer contracts.  Not all Mercedes dealers can sell vans, there are 3 in Pittsburgh, only 1 has vans.

Are you positive and can you prove that not all Mercedes dealers can sell vans? Seems the dedicated web site states any Mercedes dealership can sell/service from their van portfolio and to use their search tool to find a van in stock at select dealers.

Home Page | Mercedes-Benz Vans (mbvans.com)

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6 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I want the Zephyr to succeed but history does not suggest it, is my concern here. Ev or not, luxury folks just won't give the domestics a second look when comes to sedans, outside of the Tesla cult. That could change and I hope it does but I just don't see it currently.

This is true, but look at the early 2000s Continental, the LS, MKZ, MKS, reborn Continental, all of those cars were bad.   Who is going to give them a chance after 20 years of bad cars, and Genesis wasn't even around for most of that, and the new G80 is a strong competitor.

9 minutes ago, David said:

Are you positive and can you prove that not all Mercedes dealers can sell vans? Seems the dedicated web site states any Mercedes dealership can sell/service from their van portfolio and to use their search tool to find a van in stock at select dealers.

Home Page | Mercedes-Benz Vans (mbvans.com)

The dealer I go to for service does not sell vans.  

https://www.bobbyrahalmotorcar.com

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43 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

This is true, but look at the early 2000s Continental, the LS, MKZ, MKS, reborn Continental, all of those cars were bad.   Who is going to give them a chance after 20 years of bad cars, and Genesis wasn't even around for most of that, and the new G80 is a strong competitor.

The dealer I go to for service does not sell vans.  

https://www.bobbyrahalmotorcar.com

Your missing the POINT

MB does not state that the dealers cannot sell. The web site says any dealer can sell a van, use their search tool to find a dealer with vans in stock.  Not all dealers stock vans, but that does not mean they cannot sell them and Daimler / MB does not keep them from selling it. No where on their parent web site, MB global site or MBUSA does it say it is a special dealership requirement to sell the company vans.

MBUSA and MB global says not all dealers stock everything they produce. Use the search tool to find a dealer with the product your interested in, in stock. 

This is the same way with pretty much any auto company unless they clearly state that a certain product line requires a special dealership.

Common sense.

Want to prove me wrong, then POINT ME AND EVERYONE HERE TO THE ACTUAL REQUIREMENT on DAIMLER / Mercedes-Benz web sites!

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7 minutes ago, David said:

Your missing the POINT

MB does not state that the dealers cannot sell. The web site says any dealer can sell a van, use their search tool to find a dealer with vans in stock.  Not all dealers stock vans, but that does not mean they cannot sell them and Daimler / MB does not keep them from selling it. No where on their parent web site, MB global site or MBUSA does it say it is a special dealership requirement to sell the company vans.

MBUSA and MB global says not all dealers stock everything they produce. Use the search tool to find a dealer with the product your interested in, in stock. 

This is the same way with pretty much any auto company unless they clearly state that a certain product line requires a special dealership.

Common sense.

Want to prove me wrong, then POINT ME AND EVERYONE HERE TO THE ACTUAL REQUIREMENT on DAIMLER / Mercedes-Benz web sites!

289 Mercedes Vans dealers in North America, and 383 Car dealers in North America.  So they don't all sell vans.  Maybe Vans requires something special that those other 100 dealers choose not to invest in.  

Also who cares if they sell commercial cans where they sell cars, they sell Corvettes next to $15k Sparks and Express work vans, no one says they aren't going to buy a Corvette because the dealer sells a work van.   

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22 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

So they don't all sell vans.

No; just 75% of all dealers do.

22 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

they sell Corvettes next to $15k Sparks and Express work vans, no one says they aren't going to buy a Corvette because the dealer sells a work van.

So… mercedes is doing the same thing Chevrolet is. Got it.
Because BTW; not all Chevy dealers sell Express work vans, too. 😉

Edited by balthazar
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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It could be in the same dealer, the same way Chevrolet and Cadillac can be in the same dealership, but they are separate brands/dealer contracts.  Not all Mercedes dealers can sell vans, there are 3 in Pittsburgh, only 1 has vans.

Your denial is astounding. For the record, all three Phoenix AZ dealerships sell vans right alongside their “luxury” cars. The one in my hometown in NC also sells them side by side. 

Edited by surreal1272
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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Because Mercedes sells more $100k+ cars than anyone else in the world.  Their customer base shops in that price bracket, and they have a big customer base.

And that has zero bearing on whether the EQS will sell well. ZERO bearing. BTW, they would have a bigger base if it was a CUV/SUV instead of a sedan that already looks ten years old on the outside. 
 

And preaching the $100K defense rings a little hollow when the ATP is, again, lower than Cadillac and their one $100K model. 

40 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

289 Mercedes Vans dealers in North America, and 383 Car dealers in North America.  So they don't all sell vans.  

Yet you were just on here acting like it was only a minority of dealers doing this. How’d that blond assumption work out for you? 
 

Sorry but your entire defense of them while trolling yet another domestic thread is just old, dumb, and full of basic lies. Just sit this one out. 

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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The dealer I go to for service does not sell vans.

Don’t worry. As it was already pointed out to you, 75% of them do. 

47 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Also who cares if they sell commercial cans where they sell cars, they sell Corvettes next to $15k Sparks and Express work vans, no one says they aren't going to buy a Corvette because the dealer sells a work van.

But I thought this was the best or nothing? They are not supposed to be like GM and Chevy. This is a luxury make selling work vans on the same lot, a pass you sure as $h! would not let Cadillac have if Chevy Sparks were sold right next to Escalades. Save the fake outrage and “who cares” defense because clearly you did care, as evidenced by your nonstop defense of an obvious lie. 

Edited by surreal1272
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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Who is going to give them a chance after 20 years of bad cars

Plenty of folks gave the Germans a free pass on decades of automotive $h!. Lincoln can do it too. 

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1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Your denial is astounding. For the record, all three Phoenix AZ dealerships sell vans right alongside their “luxury” cars. The one in my hometown in NC also sells them side by side. 

Doesn't bother me if 100% of Mercedes dealers sell vans.  If the dealership wants to get the license to sell both that is their choice.

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1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

And that has zero bearing on whether the EQS will sell well. ZERO bearing. BTW, they would have a bigger base if it was a CUV/SUV instead of a sedan that already looks ten years old on the outside. 
 

And preaching the $100K defense rings a little hollow when the ATP is, again, lower than Cadillac and their one $100K model. 

Yet you were just on here acting like it was only a minority of dealers doing this. How’d that blond assumption work out for you? 
 

Sorry but your entire defense of them while trolling yet another domestic thread is just old, dumb, and full of basic lies. Just sit this one out. 

I don't care about brand ATP, because brands with small lines or crappy selling entry level cars have high ATP.  Maserati and Alfa Romeo have the 2 best ATP's at FCA, maybe FCA should kill Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep and focus on their high ATP brands are.  But oh wait, everyone hear says Maserati and Alfa Romeo lose money.

EQS is a $100k+ car, Mercedes has had success selling cars above $100k, they have the largest luxury car owner base in the world.  They aren't going into any new price category or going above what their current base buys.  EQS will do well in China and Europe, it should do okay here, I think since gas is cheap the S-class will sell much better.  

As far as Lincoln goes, every sedan they made in the past 10 years has bombed, and all of them started under $50k.  People aren't going to pay $70-80k or more on a Lincoln sedan.  And here are Lincoln sales in China, under 40k units last year, bank to bank 15% declines, when BMW, Mercedes and Audi did 610k, 640k, and 655k respectively (and all 3 are on pace to top 700k units this year).  The other luxury brands have a global base to sell to, Lincoln does not, mostly just American and they don't do so well in America either.

 

Screen Shot 2021-06-23 at 10.20.57 PM.png

Edited by smk4565
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3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

This is true, but look at the early 2000s Continental, the LS, MKZ, MKS, reborn Continental, all of those cars were bad.   Who is going to give them a chance after 20 years of bad cars, and Genesis wasn't even around for most of that, and the new G80 is a strong competitor.

The dealer I go to for service does not sell vans.  

https://www.bobbyrahalmotorcar.com

But the Point is ALL MB Dealers CAN SELL VANS even if they do not stock them! So YOUR Dealer DOES Sell Vans if they want, but they choose not too.

If a person came in to YOUR dealership and asked to buy a Van, I am sure the dealership would work with them to sell it as the official web site states. All Dealers can sell and service vans.

28 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Doesn't bother me if 100% of Mercedes dealers sell vans.  If the dealership wants to get the license to sell both that is their choice.

There is NO LICENSE required to Sell Vans per MB Web Site. Where does it say they have to have a special license or franchise to sell vans?

Any Dealer can sell and service the vans, only 75% CHOOSE to stock them and sell them.

Clearly it bothers you BIG TIME as you are here ATTEMPTING to Justify the whole VAN thing at MB.

9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Screen Shot 2021-06-23 at 10.20.57 PM.png

So AGAIN, NO LINK, NO CLEAR EVIDENCE, What is this chart, Sales of Smarts? Sales of S-Class?

You have been asked, posts the links, clearly state the facts. 

Please stop drinking the Kool-Aid as you clearly are having challenges expressing yourself clearly through style, diction and formulation of your thoughts. 

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58 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Doesn't bother me if 100% of Mercedes dealers sell vans.  If the dealership wants to get the license to sell both that is their choice.

Of course it doesn’t bother you. Why else would spend a page defending it even after denying the practice of them selling vans beside their cars existed in the first place? Sell that bull$h! to someone else. 

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1 minute ago, David said:

But the Point is ALL MB Dealers CAN SELL VANS even if they do not stock them! So YOUR Dealer DOES Sell Vans if they want, but they choose not too.

If a person came in to YOUR dealership and asked to buy a Van, I am sure the dealership would work with them to sell it as the official web site states. All Dealers can sell and service vans.

There is NO LICENSE required to Sell Vans per MB Web Site. Where does it say they have to have a special license or franchise to sell vans?

Any Dealer can sell and service the vans, only 75% CHOOSE to stock them and sell them.

Clearly it bothers you BIG TIME as you are here ATTEMPTING to Justify the whole VAN thing at MB.

So AGAIN, NO LINK, NO CLEAR EVIDENCE, What is this chart, Sales of Smarts? Sales of S-Class?

You have been asked, posts the links, clearly state the facts. 

Please stop drinking the Kool-Aid as you clearly are having challenges expressing yourself clearly through style, diction and formulation of your thoughts. 

They have to have a franchise agreement to sell vans, just as there were franchise agreements for Sprinter, Smart and Maybach.  

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/50749503e4b0fa0ffd4b65f5/t/56142bd2e4b0e26258e39c6c/1444162514216/BrandStandards_08.20.15.pdf

Notice there are Passenger Car AND Light Truck Franchise AgreementS.  Obviously 289 dealers got both franchises, some did not.  Just like some Mercedes dealers has Smart franchises while others did not.  In fact in Pittsburgh  Bobby Rahal owns 2 Mercedes dealers, only 1 of them had the Smart brand.

 1552834835_ScreenShot2021-06-23at11_12_54PM.thumb.png.0e8d3ce32b45005214f5ca725e66bd28.png

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Lincoln sales volume in China:

https://carsalesbase.com/china-lincoln/

236529918_ScreenShot2021-06-23at11_20_39PM.thumb.png.3c70c570ebc9e6a99c1ad764f34e85c9.png

And Audi sales in China:

https://carsalesbase.com/china-audi/

263679047_ScreenShot2021-06-23at11_21_41PM.thumb.png.6dc37fed16f7f4864932f27d3213eb13.png

That is Audi outselling Lincoln by over 16 to 1 in China last year, and Audi is on pace for 750,000 sales this year.  "World Class" doesn't get outsold 16 to 1 in the largest car market in the world and not even participate in the EU.  

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It's not like it's some sort of 'special privilege' or anything to sell work vans. All a 'franchise' is, is a legal agreement between a dealer & the OEM. Sometimes the OEM offers one to a dealer, sometimes a dealer requests the new brand. It's not a big deal.

And with the vast majority of dealers selling mercedes passenger vehicles also selling mercedes-branded work vans, that much is obvious.

Edited by balthazar
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18 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They have to have a franchise agreement to sell vans, just as there were franchise agreements for Sprinter, Smart and Maybach.  

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/50749503e4b0fa0ffd4b65f5/t/56142bd2e4b0e26258e39c6c/1444162514216/BrandStandards_08.20.15.pdf

Notice there are Passenger Car AND Light Truck Franchise AgreementS.  Obviously 289 dealers got both franchises, some did not.  Just like some Mercedes dealers has Smart franchises while others did not.  In fact in Pittsburgh  Bobby Rahal owns 2 Mercedes dealers, only 1 of them had the Smart brand.

 1552834835_ScreenShot2021-06-23at11_12_54PM.thumb.png.0e8d3ce32b45005214f5ca725e66bd28.png

So there is a Franchise to sell commercial Sprinter Vans. 

Per your 6 year old document, I have to assume there must be a newer one, but then only the commercial Sprinter van is called out, not the lowly passenger vans MB sells.

Snag_4ae6b3a.png

Reviewing the web site, I see they moved the Metris passenger van under the commercial franchise. So selling is under the franchise. 

Service is still possible at all the dealers as this 2015 document you pointed to, thank you, does not say that a dealer cannot work on the vans without a franchise agreement, only sell.

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How in the Sam hell did we go from Lincoln to MB vans? 
 

Lincoln. That’s the subject here. If he wants to continue his stupid defense of German vans, let him start his own thread (which is something I’ve never seen him do regarding his pet brand). It is the same wash, rinse, repeat nonsense with him and his blind fanboy love of all things German. He hasn’t learned a damn thing here and has never cared to learn anything that may put his pet brand in a negative light. Quite honestly, F him at this point (and yes I made it personal. Sue me). 
 

Lincoln BEVs: Anything else to add here?

 

BTW @smk4565-Sales does not equate to world class. Rolls Royce and Bentley both sell far less than the numbers you posted above. By your fanboy logic, they are not world class either. There. Done.

Edited by surreal1272
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14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

What Lincoln is class leading or even top 3?   Aren't they like the 8th best selling luxury brand in the USA?  And probably not even top 10 globally.

There's zero reason to try and explain because you're instantly going to jump on the sales numbers so you can read some reviews for yourself. 

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

... reborn Continental, all of those cars were bad.

The new Continental was far from bad. It was the HUGE step forward that Lincoln needed. It was the first Lincoln in decades to get it's own bespoke engine and they were no longer using Ford switchgear inside. It also had, arguably, the best seats in the industry. 

I'd say it was 9/10 baked. It needed a little more refinement but it was far from bad. 

Edited by ccap41
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10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

EQS is a $100k+ car, Mercedes has had success selling cars above $100k, they have the largest luxury car owner base in the world.

Unfortunately, it's a hideous vehicle, especially when you have the beautiful S Class on the same lot. 

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