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3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

like how the AMG GT black that set the record is the same one they sell.

You always have to try to belittle another company to prop up Mercedes, dont you?

LOL

Whether or not after market equipment were used, especially after market stuff that is engineered for the car in question and could be acquired through various shops or dealerships that are kinda mass produced for the car in question, it really doesnt matter...

It just shows what kind of loyality and support there is to improve said vehicle from various outlets. And whether it comes from the factory or factory supported after market outlets, it all boils down to one thing, that said vehicle is engineered superbly and could really achieve what was planned to achieve.

Porsche, like the Corvette, has extensive racing cred. Porsche, has a very loyal following and the 911 is a legend. It is no surprise that a 911, whether from the factory or from a group of hot rodding entities could achieve such an endeavor.  

Mercedes has entered this domain to try to capture a little bit of glory from the 911, from the Corvette, from speciifc Ferraris and dare I say it...the former Dodge Viper.

Mercedes has thrown all its got into the AMG GT to try to dethrone the 911. Its primary target.

Its going good for the AMG GT as its a formidable speed machine.  If the AMG GT could survive as long as a Corvette and a 991 have, then kudos to Mercedes for it.  But, many manufacturers have tried and failed to keep interest and longevity into a sports car long term.

Again, part of the mystique of a Corvette and a 911 and the Ferrari mid-engined sports cars is that these sports cars have been around for ever and it seems they aint going away...  It seems that every now and again, new entries arrive with the goal of trying to dethrone these 3, but failure is ALWAYS the end result for them.  Even when the chips were down for both the 911 and Corvette, they eventual over came extinction and thrived even stronger after nearly dying.

The AMG GT has a really really big hill to climb.

Performance? 

NAH!  They got that down pat!

A following is what they need.  This is the 1st gen.  And its a great success both performance wise and in the market place somewhat.  But...now with a new gen 911 JUST around the corner and the C8... Mercedes has got its hands full...

The launch of the AMG ONE has not arrived yet.  Its a project that has cost plenty of R&D money. Money not necessarily that Mercedes had and maybe the development of a proper 2nd gen AMG GT could suffer for it. After all, the transition to EVs might be just THAT much more important.  And even if monies for a 2nd gen AMG GT is available, how much dedication would it really have...

But the thing is, building a loyal clientele takes lots and lots of time and money. Something that Mercedes does not have regarding ICE development and/or for the AMG GT itself...

And...regarding the AMG GT itself, how much of a loyal following does it REALLY have. Is it enough to justify another generation.  A hybrid? A full on EV?  The AMG GT is a new entry. Only 7 years on the market.  How does Mercedes  know if the clientele it does have will follow and buy  the AMG GT if its a hybrid? Or an all out EV?

Again...THAT is the mystique of a Corvette. 68 years of history and data to what the clientele want and do not want from a Corvette.  It was a gamble for the Corvette to go mid-engine.  But the Corvette had 60 years (late 50s) of saying to its clientele that maybe THIS is the year/generation the Corvette will go mid-engine.  It took 60 years for this development to happen.   

One could say that its easy for the AMG GT to be done whatever Mercedes wants it to be made as it only has 7 years under its belt.  Well...7 years is not that much of a time to build an emotional connection to the car.  Nothing special has the AMG GT accomplished.  Oh...its got 1 record at 1 race track...  BIG DEAL!

Like I said, the C8 is new, a new generation of 911 is JUST around the corner. A new Ferrari mid engine has JUST been introduced.   The AMG GT sales might just drop even further making Mercedes question if its worth spending a fortune on a new generation...   

Remember, Mercedes thought it could be like Chevrolet, Porsche AND Ferrari.  Something that Mercedes is NOT. Mercedes is Mercedes.  But even Mercedes does not know what it is...

The AMG ONE is to compete with the high engineered, high dollar garage queen stuff Ferrari makes.  Problem is, THAT is what Ferrari ALWAYS done.  Make these supercars, to sell to finance racing.  Win races, and then use that racing mystique to produce more freakish street cars to sell to people to race further. Win and use THAT win to fuel more passion for the street to produce another outlandish STREET car to sell to fuel another racing victory...   THAT is Ferrari.

Mercedes built that one supercar way back in '54.  Then it became an econobox convertible.  Then it had nothing for a LOOOONG time. Until Mercedes got its hands on Chrysler for its cash to make the God ugly SLR. One and done. Then it got its hands on a Dodge platform to make a retro Gullwing.  Then it got jealous again of Ferrari, even though Mercedes has won in F1 many a time obliterating Ferrari, Ferrari still has ITS MYSTQUE game on!!!   Hence the fetish to outdo Ferrari with the AMG One.  And it seems nobody cares. Especially Ferrari.  Ferrari is as arrogant as ever.   

Ferrari LAFERRARI...  Who the phoque names a car after themselves?  

Ferrari that is who! 

Ferrarri has got some arrogant  ballz to do that.  And guess what?  The market place ACCEPTED the car and its name...why?

Because its FERRARI!!!  THAT IS WHY!!!

And then they go and create the world's most powerful naturally aspirated internal combustion ever. 6.5 liters of their very famous V12.   Even MORE famous than Mercedes' V12!!!

And they call THAT car the SUPERFAST! 

Yeah! LIKE NO SHYTE ITS SUPERFAST. AND FERRARI NAMES IT THAT!!!  

Because Ferrari has the following for them to do that kind of arrogant shyte! 

Mercedes also wants a piece of Porsche and the 911. They create the AMG GT.  But they want theirs to be a V8 and front engined. Why?  I dunno why?   Corvette envy too?

Bet they didnt see the C8 coming!!!

The problem is that to do shyte like that, it takes billions upon billions.

Porsche was their life to do 911s. They had to branch out to stay alive.  Parent company or whatever Volkswagen is to them lends a hand.    The thing is, the 911 has 60 years of development and very very very loyal following.

Mercedes is NOT a boutique sports car builder. Not anymore...  And even when it was like in '54. THAT car only lasted barely 9 years and 1 generation.  The SLS retro didnt last half of that and only one generation and they STOLE Dodge's development and used their platform...      The thing is...Mercedes has other, more lucrative markets to cater to. More important business cases to fulfill rather than a low volume....VERY low volume sports car that iits ilk is heading for extinction anyway as these types of cars have a dwindling following.  YOU said it yourself!   

The 911 was NEVER gonna be defeated by Mercedes with the AMG GT neither in performance nor in the market place...  In the short term, the AMG GT would have some successes, yes. But NEVER in the long run...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

You don't need AWD, but it helps

Does it really though? Help? 

AWD  adds heft.  Cornering might be more balanced as the AWD would balance the turning forces by adding or subtracting thrust to the wheels that have the most and least traction...yes!

But adding heft also DESTABILIZES those same forces so new suspension and steering parameters have to be accounted for, calculated and solved.     

Add heft here with AWD, but subtract heft there to counter added said heft  will also be an engineering calculation...

I think adding AWD is just changing 4 quarters for a dollar...   

 

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 Unless your grip, traction and aero so so great that you can over come. 

Because this statement is also true...

Engineering is great because MULTIPLE solutions could be achieved through different engineering philosophies and the result would be mostly the same...

I say...depending what IMAGE one car and its maker want to portray to its potential clientele is what AWD and RWD or even FWD is what AWD, RWD and FWD does to a Nurburgring lap time...  

 

 

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11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

t wasn't a stock GT2 RS, like how the AMG GT black that set the record is the same one they sell.

Semantics because it still broke the record without AWD. That kit, btw, is basically an aero package and it doesn’t matter that it’s not “stock”. It can still be added by Porsche at a Porsche dealership so your attempt to dilute its achievement over the Benz is pretty obvious. 

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3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Semantics because it still broke the record without AWD. That kit, btw, is basically an aero package and it doesn’t matter that it’s not “stock”. It can still be added by Porsche at a Porsche dealership so your attempt to dilute its achievement over the Benz is pretty obvious. 

U'm correct me please if I am wrong in my ASSumption, but I thought Mercedes also offers dealer installed aero packages. 🤔

So this just makes it the same from either company imho.

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17 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

You always have to try to belittle another company to prop up Mercedes, dont you?

LOL

Whether or not after market equipment were used, especially after market stuff that is engineered for the car in question and could be acquired through various shops or dealerships that are kinda mass produced for the car in question, it really doesnt matter...

It just shows what kind of loyality and support there is to improve said vehicle from various outlets. And whether it comes from the factory or factory supported after market outlets, it all boils down to one thing, that said vehicle is engineered superbly and could really achieve what was planned to achieve.

Porsche, like the Corvette, has extensive racing cred. Porsche, has a very loyal following and the 911 is a legend. It is no surprise that a 911, whether from the factory or from a group of hot rodding entities could achieve such an endeavor.  

Mercedes has entered this domain to try to capture a little bit of glory from the 911, from the Corvette, from speciifc Ferraris and dare I say it...the former Dodge Viper.

Mercedes has thrown all its got into the AMG GT to try to dethrone the 911. Its primary target.

Its going good for the AMG GT as its a formidable speed machine.  If the AMG GT could survive as long as a Corvette and a 991 have, then kudos to Mercedes for it.  But, many manufacturers have tried and failed to keep interest and longevity into a sports car long term.

Again, part of the mystique of a Corvette and a 911 and the Ferrari mid-engined sports cars is that these sports cars have been around for ever and it seems they aint going away...  It seems that every now and again, new entries arrive with the goal of trying to dethrone these 3, but failure is ALWAYS the end result for them.  Even when the chips were down for both the 911 and Corvette, they eventual over came extinction and thrived even stronger after nearly dying.

The AMG GT has a really really big hill to climb.

Performance? 

NAH!  They got that down pat!

A following is what they need.  This is the 1st gen.  And its a great success both performance wise and in the market place somewhat.  But...now with a new gen 911 JUST around the corner and the C8... Mercedes has got its hands full...

The launch of the AMG ONE has not arrived yet.  Its a project that has cost plenty of R&D money. Money not necessarily that Mercedes had and maybe the development of a proper 2nd gen AMG GT could suffer for it. After all, the transition to EVs might be just THAT much more important.  And even if monies for a 2nd gen AMG GT is available, how much dedication would it really have...

But the thing is, building a loyal clientele takes lots and lots of time and money. Something that Mercedes does not have regarding ICE development and/or for the AMG GT itself...

And...regarding the AMG GT itself, how much of a loyal following does it REALLY have. Is it enough to justify another generation.  A hybrid? A full on EV?  The AMG GT is a new entry. Only 7 years on the market.  How does Mercedes  know if the clientele it does have will follow and buy  the AMG GT if its a hybrid? Or an all out EV?

Again...THAT is the mystique of a Corvette. 68 years of history and data to what the clientele want and do not want from a Corvette.  It was a gamble for the Corvette to go mid-engine.  But the Corvette had 60 years (late 50s) of saying to its clientele that maybe THIS is the year/generation the Corvette will go mid-engine.  It took 60 years for this development to happen.   

One could say that its easy for the AMG GT to be done whatever Mercedes wants it to be made as it only has 7 years under its belt.  Well...7 years is not that much of a time to build an emotional connection to the car.  Nothing special has the AMG GT accomplished.  Oh...its got 1 record at 1 race track...  BIG DEAL!

Like I said, the C8 is new, a new generation of 911 is JUST around the corner. A new Ferrari mid engine has JUST been introduced.   The AMG GT sales might just drop even further making Mercedes question if its worth spending a fortune on a new generation...   

Remember, Mercedes thought it could be like Chevrolet, Porsche AND Ferrari.  Something that Mercedes is NOT. Mercedes is Mercedes.  But even Mercedes does not know what it is...

The AMG ONE is to compete with the high engineered, high dollar garage queen stuff Ferrari makes.  Problem is, THAT is what Ferrari ALWAYS done.  Make these supercars, to sell to finance racing.  Win races, and then use that racing mystique to produce more freakish street cars to sell to people to race further. Win and use THAT win to fuel more passion for the street to produce another outlandish STREET car to sell to fuel another racing victory...   THAT is Ferrari.

Mercedes built that one supercar way back in '54.  Then it became an econobox convertible.  Then it had nothing for a LOOOONG time. Until Mercedes got its hands on Chrysler for its cash to make the God ugly SLR. One and done. Then it got its hands on a Dodge platform to make a retro Gullwing.  Then it got jealous again of Ferrari, even though Mercedes has won in F1 many a time obliterating Ferrari, Ferrari still has ITS MYSTQUE game on!!!   Hence the fetish to outdo Ferrari with the AMG One.  And it seems nobody cares. Especially Ferrari.  Ferrari is as arrogant as ever.   

Ferrari LAFERRARI...  Who the phoque names a car after themselves?  

Ferrari that is who! 

Ferrarri has got some arrogant  ballz to do that.  And guess what?  The market place ACCEPTED the car and its name...why?

Because its FERRARI!!!  THAT IS WHY!!!

And then they go and create the world's most powerful naturally aspirated internal combustion ever. 6.5 liters of their very famous V12.   Even MORE famous than Mercedes' V12!!!

And they call THAT car the SUPERFAST! 

Yeah! LIKE NO SHYTE ITS SUPERFAST. AND FERRARI NAMES IT THAT!!!  

Because Ferrari has the following for them to do that kind of arrogant shyte! 

Mercedes also wants a piece of Porsche and the 911. They create the AMG GT.  But they want theirs to be a V8 and front engined. Why?  I dunno why?   Corvette envy too?

Bet they didnt see the C8 coming!!!

The problem is that to do shyte like that, it takes billions upon billions.

Porsche was their life to do 911s. They had to branch out to stay alive.  Parent company or whatever Volkswagen is to them lends a hand.    The thing is, the 911 has 60 years of development and very very very loyal following.

Mercedes is NOT a boutique sports car builder. Not anymore...  And even when it was like in '54. THAT car only lasted barely 9 years and 1 generation.  The SLS retro didnt last half of that and only one generation and they STOLE Dodge's development and used their platform...      The thing is...Mercedes has other, more lucrative markets to cater to. More important business cases to fulfill rather than a low volume....VERY low volume sports car that iits ilk is heading for extinction anyway as these types of cars have a dwindling following.  YOU said it yourself!   

The 911 was NEVER gonna be defeated by Mercedes with the AMG GT neither in performance nor in the market place...  In the short term, the AMG GT would have some successes, yes. But NEVER in the long run...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

67 years making the SL, they have a new SL for 2022 that shares no components with the current SL or current AMG GT.  So that’s how committed Mercedes is to sports cars, clean sheet design from ground up.

There will be a 2nd generation AMG GT, that is already in the works and it is hard top only.

Sure the 911 GT2 took the Nurburgring record back but the AMG One will slaughter it.  But this is good, Mercedes and Porsche compete with each other and push each other.  If not for Porsche then Mercedes would just build luxury barges.  Now I love me a big luxo cruiser, but I am glad Mercedes can make an S-class and and AMG GT and not have to pick one or the other.

And Diamler has made $9.5 billion in profits the last 6 months, there isn’t a money problem funding any new cars.  

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8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

but the AMG One will slaughter it.

I’m guessing you are figuring if you mention it enough times, they’ll actually produce the damn thing?

 

Oh and for $2.7 million, it better the fastest on the ring. God forbid a just over $100K Vette (from an economy car company, according to you) make it sweat lol. 

Edited by surreal1272
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13 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

67 years making the SL, they have a new SL for 2022 that shares no components with the current SL or current AMG GT.  So that’s how committed Mercedes is to sports cars, clean sheet design from ground up.

There will be a 2nd generation AMG GT, that is already in the works and it is hard top only.

Sure the 911 GT2 took the Nurburgring record back but the AMG One will slaughter it.  But this is good, Mercedes and Porsche compete with each other and push each other.  If not for Porsche then Mercedes would just build luxury barges.  Now I love me a big luxo cruiser, but I am glad Mercedes can make an S-class and and AMG GT and not have to pick one or the other.

And Diamler has made $9.5 billion in profits the last 6 months, there isn’t a money problem funding any new cars.  

If the AMG One ever gets produced and if it actually survives the company focus on change that is happening, I agree with @surreal1272 it better damn well beat everything. Yet the news is showing that mercedes is changing their roadmap fast and killing off the hybrid / ICE world fast.

 

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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

So that’s how committed Mercedes is to sports cars

For the VAST portion of the SL's existence, it's been miles away from being a sports car. 

The parallels are so interesting;
• mercedes & Chevrolet both bring out a sports car in 1953.
• both are powered by inline 6s.
• MB has a hardtop, Chevy has a convertible.
• 3 years in: Chevrolet considers dropping the car, but insteads adds a V8 and a hardtop.
ª 3 years in: mercedes kills off their hardtop, kills off the 6-cyl and focuses on an anemic 4-banger to save money. I've never inspected a '53-55 up close, but I got a good look at a partially-disassembled '59 and it was cheap crap in every way. If this was a halo car, it's no wonder it took MB 35 years to gain any market traction.
 

61 Corvette : 190SL.png

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2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I’m guessing you are figuring if you mention it enough times, they’ll actually produce the damn thing?

 

Oh and for $2.7 million, it better the fastest on the ring. God forbid a just over $100K Vette (from an economy car company, according to you) make it sweat lol. 

I have always said that Cadillac should build a performance car above the Corvette.  Maybe not $3 million but how about $200,000?

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2 hours ago, David said:

If the AMG One ever gets produced and if it actually survives the company focus on change that is happening, I agree with @surreal1272 it better damn well beat everything. Yet the news is showing that mercedes is changing their roadmap fast and killing off the hybrid / ICE world fast.

 

AMG One is supposed to start deliveries this year.

I did read today Mercedes wants 50% of their line to be electric by 2025, so they are accelerating that push.

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