Cadillac News: Something EXCITING Is Coming From Cadillac January 21, 2022

[Robert Hall]

23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Well, it's certainly light years ahead of -say- an old anemic, noisy Audi diesel- the LM2 is a smooth, quiet, powerful, compact engine. It would be awesome in a sports sedan. Only potential obstacle I see might be physical engine height.

Diesels have no future in passenger cars, though..it's pretty clear automakers are moving to BEV development full throttle...maybe 10 years ago there was an opportunity for diesels...

13 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 They kept the 3.6 but a whole family of them were supposed to have been produced. But then, the high value V6s also went away when Pontiac and Saturn went away.  

Weird times for GM...

They have made smaller versions of the HF 3.6, though. A 3.0 IIRC.. And the full-size trucks still have the pushrod 4.3 V6 available.   (Edit--apparently the 4.3 is gone for '22, except in the ancient Express/Savana vans).

Edited January 23, 2022 by Robert Hall

[smk4565]

I think the Atlas I-6 got a reputation for not being that reliable, although maybe that could have been engineered out over time.  Also that engine was probably too big and thirsty to continue on past 2008 when gas prices spiked and the economy tanked.  Although they could have downsized it for fuel economy maybe and done other engineering tricks to get the MPG up.

I think the big problem though is GM (especially in the mid 2000s) didn't do much long term planning.  They introduced G5, G6, Solstice, G8, renamed the minivan, replaced Aztec with the Torrent and redesigned the Grand Prix, only to kill Pontiac within 5 years of all that.  Cadillac had CTS, STS, SRX sharing the sigma platform, the XLR on a C5 platform, the Escalade and the DTS they planned to kill off which would have been a 100% rear drive line up by around 2010.  Instead they kill the sigma platform cars, move SRX to to FWD, come out with the XTS (a rebodied Impala) to replace the STS/DTS combo, then bring out 2 more FWD SUVs.  They change their minds on products every 5 years, so all this stuff is thrown out and restarted.

Compared to BMW that has been doing straight 6 and 4 cylinders for like 40 years, and just improves and refines the formula, because they know every car and SUV they build will be able to accommodate a straight 6 (or 4 since it is the 2/3 of the same engine block).

[balthazar]

BMW is straight out of Rutville, Germany. Handling has fallen off, they're getting tons of blowback because their styling is going the way some say Pontiac's did (overwrought / heavy-handed / the subject of memes), and they're also way way behind on BE vehicles (in addition to killing off the miserable i3 in the height of a BE frenzy). They're about to throw everything out & start over, just like everyone else is claiming to. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

BMW is straight out of Rutville, Germany. Handling has fallen off, they're getting tons of blowback because their styling is going the way some say Pontiac's did (overwrought / heavy-handed / the subject of memes), and they're also way way behind on BE vehicles (in addition to killing off the miserable i3 in the height of a BE frenzy). They're about to throw everything out & start over, just like everyone else is claiming to. 

And yet they were #1 in the USA last year and #1 in the world in sales.  So people seem to like what they are building.

[balthazar]

That must mean they're the bestest brand of all the brands, eh?

Time to switch allegiance!

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

And yet they were #1 in the USA last year and #1 in the world in sales.  So people seem to like what they are building.

That's not a good goal for a 'luxury' brand.  That means they have watered down the brand to the lowest common denominator to appeal to the vapid masses.  CUVs, automatic transmissions and 4 cyl engines.   No longer building  'the ultimate driving machine' for driving enthusiasts, but building a lot of vanilla lease appliances for generic consumers. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Robert Hall

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

That's not a good goal for a 'luxury' brand.  That means they have watered down the brand to the lowest common denominator to appeal to the vapid masses.  CUVs, automatic transmissions and 4 cyl engines.   No longer building  'the ultimate driving machine' for driving enthusiasts, but building a lot of vanilla lease appliances for generic consumers. 

The X5 outsold the 3-series last year (in the USA), the X5 starts at $60k and the M is over 100k.  So it isn't like they are just selling cheap cars.  The X3 was their top seller, but Lexus and Cadillac's top sellers are the SUV's of the same price also.  20% gain last year for X5, up 32% for X6, up 12% for X7, up 20% for 7-series, brand was up 20% overall.  So their expensive stuff is gaining just as much as any of the low cost stuff.

Worldwide BMW sold 163,542 M cars, up 13.4% for a record high.  They didn't water anything down, they are just selling more, so the consumer must like what they are building.

 

[balthazar]

Consumers still think a toyoter is an excellent, problem-free vehicle, too.

Agreed that mass-volume, mainstream vehicles are no longer 'luxury' because they're everywhere. Add in glacially-paced styling updates and it appears like there's 100s of 1000s on the roads around you.

The antithesis of exclusivity.

But... smh says whatever sells the mostest, is the bestest. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Consumers still think a toyoter is an excellent, problem-free vehicle, too.

Agreed that mass-volume, mainstream vehicles are no longer 'luxury' because they're everywhere. Add in glacially-paced styling updates and it appears like there's 100s of 1000s on the roads around you.

The antithesis of exclusivity.

But... smh says whatever sells the mostest, is the bestest. 

Escalade sales went up like 30 or 40% last year, it is Cadillac's #2 seller I think behind only the XT5.  So is it not luxury anymore because they sell too many?   Especially since when you combine Tahoe, and Yukon, that sheet metal is like a couple hundred thousand units a year.

[balthazar]

What's 'too many'?

300K Cadillacs or 2,213K BMWs?

[Drew Dowdell]

On 1/21/2022 at 2:57 PM, ccap41 said:

So Cadillac decided on this application that just "V" is sufficient and doesn't need "V Blackwing" here

GM marketing is so dumb.

[Drew Dowdell]

17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think the Atlas I-6 got a reputation for not being that reliable, although maybe that could have been engineered out over time.  Also that engine was probably too big and thirsty to continue on past 2008 when gas prices spiked and the economy tanked.  Although they could have downsized it for fuel economy maybe and done other engineering tricks to get the MPG up.

I think the big problem though is GM (especially in the mid 2000s) didn't do much long term planning.  They introduced G5, G6, Solstice, G8, renamed the minivan, replaced Aztec with the Torrent and redesigned the Grand Prix, only to kill Pontiac within 5 years of all that.  Cadillac had CTS, STS, SRX sharing the sigma platform, the XLR on a C5 platform, the Escalade and the DTS they planned to kill off which would have been a 100% rear drive line up by around 2010.  Instead they kill the sigma platform cars, move SRX to to FWD, come out with the XTS (a rebodied Impala) to replace the STS/DTS combo, then bring out 2 more FWD SUVs.  They change their minds on products every 5 years, so all this stuff is thrown out and restarted.

Compared to BMW that has been doing straight 6 and 4 cylinders for like 40 years, and just improves and refines the formula, because they know every car and SUV they build will be able to accommodate a straight 6 (or 4 since it is the 2/3 of the same engine block).

The Atlas I-6 was a modern (for the time) engine that was bolted to non-modern stuff.  It was incredibly smooth and loved to rev, it really got its power higher up in the RPM band, which isn't ideal for a heavy SUV, but compared to what we have today with DOHC V6es it was fine. But then GM stuck a 4-speed automatic behind it so it always felt like it was screaming or lugging. 

In typical GM fashion, they canceled it right when it had the potential to flourish... the new 6-speed autos were coming out, direct Injection was being introduced to the mainstream, and turbo technology was entering a renaissance phase. An Atlas I-6 with DI and a Turbo would have beaten Ford to the punch with Ecoboost and probably been a better performer to boot.  Heck, even a turbo I-5 would have been great for the re-return of the Colorado/Canyon or as 1-2 matchup against the Ford 2.7EB and 3.5EB.  Both the I5 and I6 would probably have been de-bored a bit in turbo applications but it still would have been a great matchup. 

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

GM marketing is so dumb.

Leaving some room to later add moar power for a Blackwing version..

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Leaving some room to later add moar power for a Blackwing version..

More power in something like this is just unnecessary. 

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The Atlas I-6 was a modern (for the time) engine that was bolted to non-modern stuff.  It was incredibly smooth and loved to rev, it really got its power higher up in the RPM band, which isn't ideal for a heavy SUV, but compared to what we have today with DOHC V6es it was fine. But then GM stuck a 4-speed automatic behind it so it always felt like it was screaming or lugging. 

Nailed it. 

My parents had an Envoy XL with the Atlas and that's exactly how I felt about it. The crappy 4spd 100% ruined how that engine felt. if it just had a decent 6spd behind it, it would have felt so much better. It would have felt at least as good of an engine as it was. 

[Robert Hall]

20 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

More power in something like this is just unnecessary. 

Perhaps...but a core value of Escalade is excess, so too much is never enough...  they could offer a 950hp V-series Blackwing Blingmaster w/ 24 inch chrome wheels for $200k and sell a few... 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

a core value of Escalade is excess

I never got that from the Escalade; the whole 'bling' thing.  Not from the factory... but of course private owners have highly blinged out some of them after-the-fact.  

[smk4565]

They don't need an Escalade above the supercharged V8 V-series, a Blackwing makes no sense if Blackwing are supposed to be vehicles with handling or track ability.

What they could use is a higher luxury 4-seat version of the Escalade for the chauffeur crowd, although that is more a Chinese market thing, where I don't think they sell the Escalade, but the Maybach GLS and Rang Rover Autobiography 4-seater get gobbled up in these chauffeur markets.

[balthazar]

It's being teased as an Escalade V-Series.

[David]

We now know via the Cadillac Society web site that the 6.2L V8 Escalades will all come with an exclusive to Cadillac 10 Spd transmission.

2022 Cadillac Escalade Gets New 10-Speed Automatic Transmission (cadillacsociety.com)

This is different than the 10spd transmission that is installed with the 3.0L diesel or the smaller V8 gas engines in GM stable.

I have to also say that I am always glad to see sketches of possible design direction, but at the same time not always thrilled with the style. Interesting to say the least.

Cadillac InnerSpace Concept Design Sketches Released (cadillacsociety.com)

 

Have to say that the Matte Emerald Green Forest color is nice, shame they did it for such a short time.

Dark Emerald Frost Unavailable On Collector Edition Cadillac Blackwings (cadillacsociety.com)

This is an ugly black eye, I hope Cadillac gets this resolved properly. Not good to see this valve issue affecting so many Escalades, 2014 to Current and Cars with the V8 2016 to 2019.

Cadillac V8 Engine Valve Lifter Suit Claims Recall Is Necessary (cadillacsociety.com)

[oldshurst442]

That is a GREAT colour!  And it fits the CT5 nicely! 

[Cory Wolfe]

I'm slightly underwhelmed by the Escalade V. This entire generation doesn't really do anything for me, if I'm honest. I won't complain about the supercharger, though. I'm sure they'll sell every one. 

On 1/24/2022 at 8:16 AM, Drew Dowdell said:

The Atlas I-6 was a modern (for the time) engine that was bolted to non-modern stuff.  It was incredibly smooth and loved to rev, it really got its power higher up in the RPM band, which isn't ideal for a heavy SUV, but compared to what we have today with DOHC V6es it was fine. But then GM stuck a 4-speed automatic behind it so it always felt like it was screaming or lugging. 

In typical GM fashion, they canceled it right when it had the potential to flourish... the new 6-speed autos were coming out, direct Injection was being introduced to the mainstream, and turbo technology was entering a renaissance phase. An Atlas I-6 with DI and a Turbo would have beaten Ford to the punch with Ecoboost and probably been a better performer to boot.  Heck, even a turbo I-5 would have been great for the re-return of the Colorado/Canyon or as 1-2 matchup against the Ford 2.7EB and 3.5EB.  Both the I5 and I6 would probably have been de-bored a bit in turbo applications but it still would have been a great matchup. 

Strangely, I was just thinking about this the other day. I forget what prompted it, but it led me on a short little trip down wikipedia lane. 

[David]

1 hour ago, Cory Wolfe said:

I'm slightly underwhelmed by the Escalade V. This entire generation doesn't really do anything for me, if I'm honest. I won't complain about the supercharger, though. I'm sure they'll sell every one. 

I have to agree, I believe it was @ccap41 who stated that they should have never given up the Vertical Headlights and I agree with that. Using the same style of headlights as the Chevrolet and giving Vertical stacked lights to the GMC. The Escalade failed to stand apart.

The best looking at this time is the GMC for being different, Chevy for being butt ugly and Cadillac is just Blah to me.