The new BMW i7 and the new 7.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

 

 

[ccap41]

There hasn't been a split-headlight design that's knocked my boots off and this is no different. I don't think it's terrible but it's certainly not very attractive to my eyes. 

I guess it does look quite a bit getter than the EQS though. 

[oldshurst442]

 

Il Buono

 

Il Cattivo

 

Il Brutto

[smk4565]

The front end is a design train wreck.

[Robert Hall]

The front is so thick, looks like an SUV....side profile is blandly BMW-ish.  Kind of a caricature of a 7 series.

[David]

Been working long hours on our tradeshow in two weeks, so never got to write this up, but here are all the links and how BMW says Tesla Dominance is over.

BMW Says Tesla's Electric Vehicle Dominance Is Over (insideevs.com)

The new BMW 7 Series. (bmwgroup.com) Global German Press release

The new BMW 7 Series. (bmwgroup.com) USA Press Release

The new BMW 7 Series. (bmwgroup.com) Gallery

 

No Flat floor here for their EV.

 

PressClub USA. (bmwgroup.com)

PressClub Global. (bmwgroup.com)

17 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The front end is a design train wreck.

EQS is a Train Wreck, this at least has lines and looks far more traditional than the EQS wreck that is pathetic compared to the S-Class

I have to say that BMW and Mercedes-Benz is a total let down of their BEV technology. They were supposed to not only compete but beat Tesla and what they are showing is worse than what Ford and GM has launched and is bringing to market.

[oldshurst442]

Its crazy to think that the i7 has actually grown on me.  I appreciate its long hood/short deck sedan design.  I am supremely happy that BMW hasnt ditched the sedan.

The front end is, that shytty grill, its too over powering. I dont mind the front end being that high and thick, I dont like the huge twin kidneys. That design language needs to go.  The twin kidneys are a BMW trait, and those need to stay, but BMW does not need to copy American fullsized pick-up truck design language...

As far as their EV tech goes, I doubt the statement made by BMW sales boss Pieter Nota that Tesla's dominance is over.  It could be over, but it aint gonna be because of BMW...

Up to 310 miles of range...   That is laughable and embarrassing for a 2022 and beyond brand new offering.

We dont know how fast it is, I doubt its fast enough to make Tesla scared.  He tooted that BMW tag line of ultimate driving machine, but seeing how the Mustang Mach-E  has better, faster more sportier ride and drive than the i4 EV, I dont see how the i7 outdoes Tesla let alone to live up to BMW's own tag line...

BMW fails to realize that Tesla does its own thing and people are quite happy that Tesla does its own thing. So much so that Tesla's popularity has only skyrocketed DESPITE Tesla's rising prices...   Record sales for Q1 in 2022...

Not only that, poor BMW has to outsell, outperform and outdazzle the Lucid Air if BMW wants to be a leader in this arena with its i7.  And it aint happening...

 

 

[smk4565]

The gas version will outsell the EV I bet.

[David]

13 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The gas version will outsell the EV I bet.

As does the S-Class outsells the EQS.

[ccap41]

Is there an EV that outsells the equivalent ICE version/competitor?

[Robert Hall]

17 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Is there an EV that outsells the equivalent ICE version/competitor?

I don't think so..at least not in NA..there are very few examples of automakers building both ICE and BE versions of the same model (or two different models in the same market niche)...maybe in a few years we will see that..

[David]

37 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Is there an EV that outsells the equivalent ICE version/competitor?

I expect the F-150 Lighting to be that Leader if Ford is being honest about all the sales reservations they have.

I have to say that compared to the I7, the Lincoln Star dash is way better. Better Looking too for a Station Wagon

 

[Robert Hall]

8 minutes ago, David said:

I expect the F-150 Lighting to be that Leader if Ford is being honest about all the sales reservations they have.

 

 

Doubt it..the regular F150 sold 726k last year, down from over 900k in 2018..  Lightning projected production figures are a fraction of that. (supposedly can build 15,000 in 2022, 55,000 in 2023, and 80,000 in 2024)

Edited April 22, 2022 by Robert Hall

[David]

2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Doubt it..the regular F150 sold 726k last year, down from over 900k in 2018..

True, it will not be right away, but I can see over the next coming 5 years it could be possible.

[Robert Hall]

58 minutes ago, David said:

True, it will not be right away, but I can see over the next coming 5 years it could be possible.

Maybe 15 years...I can't see the hundreds of thousands of rural consumers that buy F-series pickups every year rushing out to buy the Lightning..

Edited April 22, 2022 by Robert Hall

[ccap41]

I agree with Robert, it's definitely going to be longer than 5 years before the EV Lightning will surpass the ICE Lightning. 

There's only ~200,000 reservations and they sell in the range of 700,000-900,000 units a year. I just cannot imagine the demand could be that high to have the majority become EVs in the next five years. 

In MY2026, there will not be 400,000 Lightnings sold.

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

I don't think so..at least not in NA..there are very few examples of automakers building both ICE and BE versions of the same model (or two different models in the same market niche)...maybe in a few years we will see that..

Not an exact copy like the i7/7 Series (although there is a Niro and Niro EV) but you can look at vehicles like the Bolt/Bolt EUV and Trax or Equinox. 

I'm just thinking nearly the same size vehicle from the same manufacturer. 

[Robert Hall]

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Not an exact copy like the i7/7 Series (although there is a Niro and Niro EV) but you can look at vehicles like the Bolt/Bolt EUV and Trax or Equinox. 

I'm just thinking nearly the same size vehicle from the same manufacturer. 

Yeah, I don't see it happening anytime soon..with an ICE Equinox at $30k and the BEV Equinox at $40k maybe?

[ccap41]

6 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Yeah, I don't see it happening anytime soon..with an ICE Equinox at $30k and the BEV Equinox at $40k maybe?

They claim "around $30,000". The Equinox starts at $25,800, FYI (I had to look it up out of curiosity). 

"Equinox EV LT starting MSRP * around $30,000. LT availability will be announced at a later date. RS available Fall 2023; pricing to be announced at a later date. More info coming soon."

[David]

56 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I agree with Robert, it's definitely going to be longer than 5 years before the EV Lightning will surpass the ICE Lightning. 

There's only ~200,000 reservations and they sell in the range of 700,000-900,000 units a year. I just cannot imagine the demand could be that high to have the majority become EVs in the next five years. 

In MY2026, there will not be 400,000 Lightnings sold.

Ford is very serious about ramping up battery production to reduce overall battery cost to ensure that their $39K starting price is a valid price point to allow all incomes buy a BEV Pickup. If Ford delivers, same with GM, then yes, I can see BEV replacing ICE sales sooner than later as the overall maintenance cost and cheaper recharge cost compared to cost of Fuel and maintenance will push the buyers in that direction.

44 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Yeah, I don't see it happening anytime soon. With an ICE Equinox at $30k and the BEV Equinox at $40k maybe?

Equinox BEV per GM is aimed to start at $30K, with lower maintenance and fueling costs compared to ICE, I can easily see the changeover in sales to BEV.

37 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

They claim "around $30,000". The Equinox starts at $25,800, FYI (I had to look it up out of curiosity). 

"Equinox EV LT starting MSRP * around $30,000. LT availability will be announced at a later date. RS available Fall 2023; pricing to be announced at a later date. More info coming soon."

That is good to know that we are looking at a $4,200 difference between ICE and BEV. Now when you add in fuel costs, maintenance cost of ICE compared to BEV, I think many more people will consider moving to bev. 

If other OEMs also deliver on getting BEV by 2025 to 2028 to replace the entry level ICE autos, then yes, BEV will replace ICE new auto sales fast IMHO.

[ccap41]

20 minutes ago, David said:

Ford is very serious about ramping up battery production to reduce overall battery cost to ensure that their $39K starting price is a valid price point to allow all incomes buy a BEV Pickup. If Ford delivers, same with GM, then yes, I can see BEV replacing ICE sales sooner than later as the overall maintenance cost and cheaper recharge cost compared to cost of Fuel and maintenance will push the buyers in that direction.

Yes, I agree that they're serious about the transition to EVs but, I don't see that large of a chunk being EVs in that short of a timeframe. I could see them getting to 100,000/yr at that point, and I think that's a very large accomplishment, but I don't see 400,000 for MY2026. 

I think the price points will still keep it out of reach for the vast majority of those 700,000-900,000 sales. I just don't see people spending nearly 80k for the cheapest 320 mile range truck (XLT) and I thoroughly believe it will be a tough sell for truck buyers to only have a range of only 230 miles. Yes, I understand you leave your house with a full charge every morning and it's extremely rare for MOST people to drive 200 miles a day, but this is the truck industry we're talking about and they're not the same buyer as a Civic or RAV4. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by ccap41

[oldshurst442]

We are truly at the eve of affordable EVs.  Not quite there yet as the cheapest offerings in North America are in the entry level luxury pricing.  But...the interiors and the fit and finish and the gadget gimmickry offered in these EVs are equivalent to entry level luxury cars. Cars like the Ford Mach E, the KIA EV6 and the Hyundai Ioniq 5 are perfect examples of what Im talking about.  

EVs like the Cadillac Lyriq, Mercedes EQS, EQC are not only priced EXACTLY where the luxury market is at, but also dont compromise on any luxury either.  

Niche products like the Rivian, Lucid Air and Hummer EV are priced accordingly AS niche products.  No different than with ICE niche products like a Ford Raptor/RAM TRX, BMW 7 Series/Mercedes S Class and Mercedes G Wagon respectively. 

On these fronts, we could see that EVs are on EQUAL footing, if not superior (in some cases), to their ICE equivalents. 

As the Chevrolet Bolts and the Nissan Leafs cease to exist and better, more up to date tech replaces them such as the up coming EV Equinox, and if GM promises to keep that MSRP, then we will witness the final stage of where EVs will no longer be a compromise of some sort and will be on equal footing with their equivalent affordable ICE counterparts.

In the case of the Ford Lightning and Chevrolet EV Silverado, from the get go, they are at a disadvantage in selling way less than their ICE counterparts.  Due to the mental dependency of oil and gasoline in THIS market, Ford and Chevy will NOT be offering a gazillion versions of their BE pick-ups like they do with their ICE versions. It will take slightly more time to get folk out of their gasoline dependency. 

It didnt harm the F150 sales when Ford went ecoboost 6 on it, but GM didnt try the same thing and stuck with the 5.3 liter V8.  And it didnt hurt GM one iota for offering an old engine like that on their new Silverados.  Electric offerings are a slightly different animal though.  EVs have been politically weaponized and demonized to such an extent as to some RedNeck idiots roll coal on Priuses every time they pass one on the road.  Now, I would roll coal on Priuses myself, but I wouldnt do it simply because these are EVs, Id just do it because they hog the left lane going 10 UNDER the speed limit...   These same people will probably find the Hummer EV cool, but NOT because its an EV, BUT because the Hummer EV somehow STILL says phoque you to the  EV world... 

A TALL order to get die hard pick up drivers off of their gas hog addicted ways...  

Im sure painting and insinuating all kinds of stereotypes here, it is what it is... 

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by oldshurst442

[David]

@ccap41 @oldshurst442 This story cracked me up as they say the Rivian was built for the RedNeck Crowd.

Ferrous Magazine News - The redneck's EV - The Rivian R1T

Yet they missed one important part, income level as most Redneck people based on their description would not have the income to purchase a Rivian. Again, this is where if GM and Ford deliver on their $39K EV Pickup, they will wine hearts and minds especially over Tesla.

This story is all about the coming EV Pickups and if Canoo, Lordstown, etc. can actually make it to production and sell in the $30K range, they will expand peoples ability to afford an EV.

Every Electric Pickup Truck Currently on the Horizon (caranddriver.com)

Excellent Read on what is a Redneck and why are they iceing out the EV Chargers?

QUOTE: 

According to Google dictionary, the definition of a redneck is:

“a working-class white person, especially a politically reactionary one from a rural area.”

What Motivated North Carolina Rednecks To Block Tesla Superchargers? - CleanTechnica

[ccap41]

17 minutes ago, David said:

Excellent Read on what is a Redneck and why are they iceing out the EV Chargers?

QUOTE: 

According to Google dictionary, the definition of a redneck is:

“a working-class white person, especially a politically reactionary one from a rural area.”

What Motivated North Carolina Rednecks To Block Tesla Superchargers? - CleanTechnica

That was one of the most garbage-@ss articles I've ever read. So much speculation just to drag some idiots through the mud with stereotypes, assuming political affiliations, assuming their income based on their vehicles, and almost any other thing about the people in an oh-so-slightly biased piece. 

"These boys are probably the children of mothers and fathers who worked in furniture factories and grew up expecting to work in the factories themselves, able to afford their pickup trucks, NASCAR races, and the like. But now they can’t. Furniture factory jobs have dried up. The new jobs require educations that they and their parents probably had no clue about.

And then Tesla sets up a Supercharger in town, probably to service well off, modern-economy people driving from Atlanta to Washington (based on the placement). That’s gotta sting too. No more gas station jobs for them and their friends."

I'm not here to defend the actions of those truck drivers, but that was a trash article. 

Also, that was 2018. 

https://www.hickorync.gov/demographics

Edited April 22, 2022 by ccap41

[Robert Hall]

I'd imagine the Rivian's core market are well-educated upscale urban/suburban professionals that enjoy the outdoors...hiking, camping, going to the beach with dogs... definitely not 'rednecks'... 

I can't imagine real rednecks (poor rural whites) with their worn out 20-30yr old Murican pickups will ever be shopping for an EV pickup, let alone from a non-mainstream brand like Rivian.    Or the bros w/ their lifted shiny brodozer diesel pickups...  the 'redneck' label just seems very tone-deaf and misapplied to a Rivian.