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Corvette to Spin Off as a New Brand With an SUV


NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

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This was never a case of "if" they were going to do this, but "when" they were going to do this. I also would not be surprised if GM explores a non-dealership option for the Vette brand, similar to Tesla and Rivian. It's a bit of a long shot, I will admit, but the writing has been on the wall for this kind of move for a while IMO and why not start with the Vette.

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No surprise, I've long thought they should position Corvette like VWAG does Porsche, where they have multiple models incl. a performance SUV and sports sedan.   Seems like it could be quite profitable for GM.

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I think this is an awful idea for multiple reasons.

1.  Corvette is a model, like a 911, it isn't a brand like Porsche.  There is no 911 SUV, 911 Sedan, 911 Coupe, etc.  

2.  This dilutes the brand image as Ford is doing with Mustang and Land Rover has killed the Range Rover name by calling everything a Range Rover.

3.  Corvette not being a brand, doesn't have it's own dealer network like Porsche, Audi, etc have, and they can't sell like Tesla because of dealer laws, so now you just have more high dollar products in a Chevrolet dealership.

4.  What is the point of Cadillac?  If Chevrolet sells higher performance sedans, coupes and SUVs than Cadillac, why is Cadillac here unless they are going to morph into Lexus ES/RX land where they just make cushy seat, soft riders that are comfortable but offer no real performance and cater to old people (been there done that in the 90s)

5.  It paves the way to kill the Corvette coupe.  A sedan is going to sell better than a coupe, an SUV will sell better than a sedan.  So when the Corvette coupe is the worst selling of the 3, the bean counters and product planners will say kill the coupe/convertible, because this crossover over here is the "new" Corvette.

If they are going to do this, then Corvette should be spun off into its own brand and have it's own dealer network, but that would piss off Chevy dealers and stand alone Corvette dealers probably couldn't survive.  Then you get into a situation where Hyundai was trying to sell the Genesis and Equus sedans at Hyundai dealers which made no sense.

Edited by smk4565
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5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Ohhhh the boomers are going to be upset about this one... 

And apparently SMK too...

But yeah...   First the Mustang and now the Corvette.  

Oh the humanity!!!

 Where is THIS world coming to???!!!

5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I have zero issues with this.

Me too!!!

But I am afraid with this.  

Its a very thin line to accomplish and succeed. One false move in either product, marketing campaign... one miscalculation of some sort in anything that is to become  a new Corvette brand product, image, logo, colour selection of a key fob, speedometer number font and Corvette brand acceptance is kaput...

 

But...I do question the validity of this article as the way its written, the timeline of this revelation seems to be in 2019 when C8 Corvette trims where first introduced to us.  A couple of days ago, Mark Reuss told us the new updated C8 Corvettes to come.  And it seems like the Z06 will be the LAST gasoline ONLY powered variant.  There will be a hybrid and a fully electric C8 based on Ultium with 800V.  The Car and Driver article claims that a TT 800 plus horsepower gasoline only variant is to come.  And Reuss did NOT mention that 2 days ago.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42096801/corvette-brand-2025/

 

We have already seen the new Z06, and there are several more versions of the C8 still to come, including a possible E-Ray hybrid, the revived ZR1 and the even more extreme Zora hybrid named after Zora Arkus-Duntov, father of the original C1. There's also a Corvette EV on the horizon slated to use GM's Ultium architecture

 

At this point, a possible E-Ray hybrid is not so much as a possible trim, but a fait accompli.  There was no talk about a revived ZR1 2 days ago, and the way its written, like I said, the ZR1 is to be ICE, and Reuss made it clear that two electric C8s and two ICE C8s will be available.   

Maybe GM is ready to spin off Corvette into its own brand. But at this point for me, its like all these decades when Chevy promised a mid-engine Corvette only for it to NOT be.  Yes, we have one now. It only took 60 years for it to come true since the first time it was rumoured... 

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21 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think this is an awful idea for multiple reasons.

1.  Corvette is a model, like a 911, it isn't a brand like Porsche.  There is no 911 SUV, 911 Sedan, 911 Coupe, etc.  

2.  This dilutes the brand image as Ford is doing with Mustang and Land Rover has killed the Range Rover name by calling everything a Range Rover.

3.  Corvette not being a brand, doesn't have it's own dealer network like Porsche, Audi, etc have, and they can't sell like Tesla because of dealer laws, so now you just have more high dollar products in a Chevrolet dealership.

4.  What is the point of Cadillac?  If Chevrolet sells higher performance sedans, coupes and SUVs than Cadillac, why is Cadillac here unless they are going to morph into Lexus ES/RX land where they just make cushy seat, soft riders that are comfortable but offer no real performance and cater to old people (been there done that in the 90s)

5.  It paves the way to kill the Corvette coupe.  A sedan is going to sell better than a coupe, an SUV will sell better than a sedan.  So when the Corvette coupe is the worst selling of the 3, the bean counters and product planners will say kill the coupe/convertible, because this crossover over here is the "new" Corvette.

If they are going to do this, then Corvette should be spun off into its own brand and have it's own dealer network, but that would piss off Chevy dealers and stand alone Corvette dealers probably couldn't survive.  Then you get into a situation where Hyundai was trying to sell the Genesis and Equus sedans at Hyundai dealers which made no sense.

You fear this due to Mercedes being a Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota, VW competitor and no longer just a luxury brand. As such, Corvette will clean up Mercedes as a brand focused just on Performance.

GM is smart to make Corvette a Online brand that is direct to consumers that you can pick up at any GM dealership.

Profitable, makes sense, smart business.

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Good Read, profitable GM.

GM Raises 2022 Guidance and Expects North American EV Portfolio to be Profitable in 2025 as Annual Capacity Tops 1 Million

GM is being selective on specific brands to go back to being global. Cadillac is the first.

 

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11 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Corvette has been its own sub-brand for a long time. Chevrolet as a brand is mainstream trucks, CUVs, and SUVs.  Corvette is a strong enough brand that it can grow.  

Can it support its own dealer network?  I say no, therefore not a brand.  And it's not a trim level like Denali or Maybach.

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3 hours ago, David said:

You fear this due to Mercedes being a Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota, VW competitor and no longer just a luxury brand. As such, Corvette will clean up Mercedes as a brand focused just on Performance.

GM is smart to make Corvette a Online brand that is direct to consumers that you can pick up at any GM dealership.

Profitable, makes sense, smart business.

Corvette is not going to clean up on Mercedes, or Porsche or Audi or anyone else.  Cadillac has failed at that for like 40 years, a Chevrolet isn't going to pull it off.  Probably they will just suck out whatever life is left at Cadillac, since Chevy will get what really are Model S and Model X interiors since the Corvette interior will line up more with Tesla than Audi or Porsche. 

Can't make Corvette an online brand, GM can't sell factory direct because or dealership laws, they'd be sued and not allowed to sell cars.  Only way to do that is to spin Corvette off into a stand alone business, like what was done with Ferrari, but I doubt a Corvette brand could survive on it's own using no GM parts and having no GM dealer network.  And the Corvette dealer network would have to get all the service rights and software, computer programming etc, and Chevrolet dealers wouldn't have access to any of that.

While on topic, why isn't the Escalade being branched out?  Why isn't there an Escalade 2 door sports car, and Escalade Sedan, and Escalade Sport crossover?  Leverage that brand name to make more models if they think that's a good business strategy.

And Escalade 2 seat convertible EV sports car makes exactly as much sense as a Corvette SUV.

 

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@smk4565 Now your grasping at straws with your Escalade comment as you know a luxury brand has cars and SUVs. Performance too or one can always break out and expand a performance model into a brand.

If Mercedese is this all-encompassing superior luxury auto company than why is their quality so bad?

193 problems per 100 autos compared to Cadillac at 173 per 100 or Chevrolet at 151 per 100 or Kia, Hyundai and Genesis all having less problems per 100 autos and the best is RAM at only 128 problems per 100 autos.

image.png

I have to work so maybe later I can pull up the yearly sales of Mercedes versus Cadillac, I think it was the end of 1990's that Cadillac gave up their sales crown to Mercedes

 

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35 minutes ago, David said:

@smk4565 Now your grasping at straws with your Escalade comment as you know a luxury brand has cars and SUVs. Performance too or one can always break out and expand a performance model into a brand.

If Mercedese is this all-encompassing superior luxury auto company than why is their quality so bad?

193 problems per 100 autos compared to Cadillac at 173 per 100 or Chevrolet at 151 per 100 or Kia, Hyundai and Genesis all having less problems per 100 autos and the best is RAM at only 128 problems per 100 autos.

image.png

I have to work so maybe later I can pull up the yearly sales of Mercedes versus Cadillac, I think it was the end of 1990's that Cadillac gave up their sales crown to Mercedes

 

Cadillac was the #1 selling luxury brand I the USA from 1950 something when they passed Packard I think it was until 1997.  Lincoln was the #1 selling luxury brand in 1998 for one year thanks to the Navigator.  Then Lexus passed Lincoln in 1999 and it was game over for Cadillac and Lincoln, neither ever got back to #1 and they aren't top 5 anymore.  I don't think Mercedes hit #1 volume in the USA until probably when the GLK and GL went on sale and they had all those SUVs before others did.

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10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

While on topic, why isn't the Escalade being branched out?  Why isn't there an Escalade 2 door sports car, and Escalade Sedan, and Escalade Sport crossover?  Leverage that brand name to make more models if they think that's a good business strategy.

Not even close to the same thing, as far as history and a great number of things go here. For starters, one has 60+ years of brand history while the other has less than 25 years of it. Your Escalade comment is pure "whataboutism' and beyond trolling quite frankly. You are also foolish if you think they won't try a direct sale approach with it either because the writing has been on the wall for years. Laws change and so has the dealership approach and if you think that those things you have mentioned are somehow barriers to achieving this business model then you have been clearly ignoring said writing on the wall.

 

The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response as it is just more Mercedes fanboy "No way the Vette can do..." nonsense.

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11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Can it support its own dealer network?  I say no, therefore not a brand.  And it's not a trim level like Denali or Maybach.

Your favorite had no problem with setting up 26 steerage dealerships for Maybach before they shut it all down and bought the dealerships back due to years of poor sales. Afterwards, Mercedes rebranded Maybach as an upper trim to the S-Class that was sold under existing dealerships this go around. I point this out because clearly it was NOT a problem for Benz to set up separate dealerships for their now failed Maybach brand. 

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34 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Your favorite had no problem with setting up 26 steerage dealerships for Maybach before they shut it all down and bought the dealerships back due to years of poor sales. Afterwards, Mercedes rebranded Maybach as an upper trim to the S-Class that was sold under existing dealerships this go around. I point this out because clearly it was NOT a problem for Benz to set up separate dealerships for their now failed Maybach brand. 

Just saw a screw up in my post. It should read, "Your favorite had no problem with setting up 26 separate dealerships for Maybach..."

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2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Just saw a screw up in my post. It should read, "Your favorite had no problem with setting up 26 separate dealerships for Maybach..."

So GM should repeat the same mistake with the Corvette and make it a stand alone brand with 50 or so  dealerships?   I think it was good that they tried with the first Maybach, it was a great car with no market.  But they also learned from the mistake and the Maybach trim level does quite well for them now.

And the Escalade is the top Cadillac and the product with the best brand image just like the Corvette is the top Chevy and has the best image of any Chevy.  Each are the halo product of their brand.  Thus making an Escalade SCC (sport coupe convertible) 2 seater makes just as much sense as making a "brawny" SUV Corvette.  Either way you dilute the brand into something it isn't.

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55 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

So GM should repeat the same mistake with the Corvette and make it a stand alone brand with 50 or so  dealerships?   I think it was good that they tried with the first Maybach, it was a great car with no market.  But they also learned from the mistake and the Maybach trim level does quite well for them now.

And the Escalade is the top Cadillac and the product with the best brand image just like the Corvette is the top Chevy and has the best image of any Chevy.  Each are the halo product of their brand.  Thus making an Escalade SCC (sport coupe convertible) 2 seater makes just as much sense as making a "brawny" SUV Corvette.  Either way you dilute the brand into something it isn't.

And, yet again, missing the bigger point there by a country mile. The Escalade has ZERO to do with the overall point here. You are so hung up on 'Cadillac, Cadillac, Cadillac", that you fail to see that the Vette would actually make a better case as a stand alone brand than anything form Cadillac. It doesn't tarnish Cadillac by doing this much less change their future plans for the worse. Remove Cadillac from the conversation.

 

The bigger point in my post was that if Mercedes can negotiate with dealerships and build separate stand alone brand dealerships, then GM certainly can. Any failure by Benz in their venture is 100% unrelated to what GM is proposing for the Vette brand (assuming any of these rumors are true, mind you). If you want to get into a debate over the failure of the Maybach brand and how Daimler handled that debacle, then you might to start a dedicated thread about it. I will not talk about it any further here.

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5 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

And, yet again, missing the bigger point there by a country mile. The Escalade has ZERO to do with the overall point here. You are so hung up on 'Cadillac, Cadillac, Cadillac", that you fail to see that the Vette would actually make a better case as a stand alone brand than anything form Cadillac. It doesn't tarnish Cadillac by doing this much less change their future plans for the worse. Remove Cadillac from the conversation.

 

The bigger point in my post was that if Mercedes can negotiate with dealerships and build separate stand alone brand dealerships, then GM certainly can. Any failure by Benz in their venture is 100% unrelated to what GM is proposing for the Vette brand (assuming any of these rumors are true, mind you). If you want to get into a debate over the failure of the Maybach brand and how Daimler handled that debacle, then you might to start a dedicated thread about it. I will not talk about it any further here.

My point is that the Corvette is not an SUV.  Just like the 911 isn’t an SUV and the Escalade or Jeep Wrangler aren’t sedans.  
 

Also the plan here seems to be that all the Corvettes will be sold at Chevy dealers, there is no separate brand.  So the Corvette Stingray, Corvette Sedan, Corvette SUV, Corvette pickup truck etc are just more Chevrolets.  So they don’t need to do anything with dealers or create anything new.

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32 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

My point is that the Corvette is not an SUV.  Just like the 911 isn’t an SUV and the Escalade or Jeep Wrangler aren’t sedans.  
 

Also the plan here seems to be that all the Corvettes will be sold at Chevy dealers, there is no separate brand.  So the Corvette Stingray, Corvette Sedan, Corvette SUV, Corvette pickup truck etc are just more Chevrolets.  So they don’t need to do anything with dealers or create anything new.

No that was not your point.

 

You said,

While on topic, why isn't the Escalade being branched out?  Why isn't there an Escalade 2 door sports car, and Escalade Sedan, and Escalade Sport crossover?  Leverage that brand name to make more models if they think that's a good business strategy.

 

 

Which has squat to do with your last post so stop moving the goalposts  for the millionth time.

 

 

 

Edited by surreal1272
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It should be noted that I brought up the direct sale model as being a long shot and stand alone dealerships as yet another (and not quite as long a shot as) option. Basically, don't be surprised by either option at this stage. As long as they don't peddle a crap product line (looking at the first failure of Maybach product here, no matter what the Benz fan says), a stand alone dealership model can most certainly work here.

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Which goes to my point, it is okay to make the Corvette and SUV, but not okay to make the Tahoe/Escalade a sports car.   Double standard.

Also not sure why people want GM to sell Corvettes factory direct, when their dealership agreements prohibit them from selling any car factory direct.  

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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Which goes to my point, it is okay to make the Corvette and SUV, but not okay to make the Tahoe/Escalade a sports car.   Double standard.

Also not sure why people want GM to sell Corvettes factory direct, when their dealership agreements prohibit them from selling any car factory direct.  

The only double standards being shown here are by you. You are the one who insists that the Escalade should get the same treatment without any basis of history or facts to back it up. The Vette has over sixty years of it and it has transcended the Chevy brand for decades now, hence it finally getting a shot at more variations. The Escalade has literally none of the above mentioned. Those are the actual facts, not based on some phantom request of yours to involve the Escalade in this. 

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14 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

The only double standards being shown here are by you. You are the one who insists that the Escalade should get the same treatment without any basis of history or facts to back it up. The Vette has over sixty years of it and it has transcended the Chevy brand for decades now, hence it finally getting a shot at more variations. The Escalade has literally none of the above mentioned. Those are the actual facts, not based on some phantom request of yours to involve the Escalade in this. 

I used the Escalade having a family of sedans and coupe variants as an example of how stupid a Corvette SUV is.  I don't like how there is Range Rover Velar, Range Rover Sport, Range Rover Evoque.   I don't like the Mustang Mach-E name, because it isn't a Mustang.  As you pointed out, 60 years of the Corvette being a 2 seat sports car, now it will be an SUV.  That's throwing 60 years of brand equity in the trash.

The Corvette should be a Corvette.  If Chevy wants to make a 1,000 HP SUV like the Model X Plaid, call it something else, make up a new name, resurrect a dead name form the past, I don't care, but an SUV isn't a Corvette.  I think it's dumb, but if they want to trash the Corvette name it doesn't really matter to me, I don't own GM stock and I am not buying a Corvette.

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20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I used the Escalade having a family of sedans and coupe variants as an example of how stupid a Corvette SUV is.

And I showed you, using actual history here, that your Escalade reference was dumb in comparison. You remark about the Mach-E but clearly it has not hurt the Mustang brand at all, which is NOW your main issue with the Vette name. The Mustang is still a top seller in its class and they keep upgrading it with every passing year. Clearly adding the Mach-E Mustang to its stable has done ZERO to hurt it. Thank you for providing a real world example, although I don't think you meant for it to be used against you lol. All you have shown here is that it is your "opinion" that they are not right and that you don't like them. None of that suggests failure of the brands in question whatsoever. 

 

And I am sorry but you, of ALL people, don't get to talk about names and brand equity. If GM doesn't use a name for a car, it is wrong to you. If they over use a name, it is wrong to you. Sorry, but you do not get to have it both ways here. Just skip the fact that these types of "stipulations" of yours have NEVER been extended to your favorite brand. Again, you really want to bring up double standards here?

Edited by surreal1272
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