Ford News: Tesla Has Nothing On Ford and their Next Generation Electric Truck-Project T3

[David]

Ford announced today March 24th, 2023, that their all-new Mega-Campus BlueOval City being built in West Tennessee, is taking shape and with it is the next-gen Ford electric truck, code named Project T3, which will go into production there in 2025 as a 2026 model. This R&D and assembly line campus will be capable of producing 500,000 electric pickups per year.

Here are  the basic numbers Ford released today on this project:

Since the start of this mega-campus park, Ford and partners have already invested $20 million plus dollars into the local communities. 

Bill Ford, executive chair had the following to say about this project: “BlueOval City is the blueprint for Ford’s electric future around the world. We will build revolutionary electric vehicles at an advanced manufacturing site that works in harmony with the planet, aligning business growth and innovation with environmental progress.”

BlueOval City is designed to be Ford’s first carbon neutral vehicle manufacturing and battery campus as Ford works to power all Ford plants globally with renewable and carbon-free electricity by 2035.

 Jim Farley, Ford preseident and CEO had the following to say about Project T3: “Project T3 is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to revolutionize America’s truck. We are melding 100 years of Ford truck know-how with world-class electric vehicle, software and aerodynamics talent. It will be a platform for endless innovation and capability.” 

“PJ O’Rourke once described American pickups as ‘a back porch with an engine attached.’ Well, this new truck is going to be like the Millennium Falcon – with a back porch attached,” he said. “The manufacturing process will be equally breakthrough, with radical simplicity, cost efficiency and quality technology that will make BlueOval City the modern-day equivalent of Henry Ford’s Rouge factory. A factory of the future that people from all over the world will want to tour.”  

BlueOval City is a key part in Ford's plan to scale to production of 2 million EVs a year by 2026.

For those interested in how big it is, check out the construction video of how much steel, cement, etc. they have done and what it is related to for size comparison.

 

With its F-150 Lightning, Ford already has shifted people’s expectations about the capability, driving enjoyment and productivity EV pickups can deliver. Ford’s Project T3 aims to further grow and reinvent the Ford truck franchise.

Ford is developing its second-generation EV truck in tandem with the all-new assembly plant, resulting in efficiencies never before possible – such as a 30 percent smaller general assembly footprint than traditional plants while delivering higher production capacity.

Meanwhile, Project T3 team members are ensuring they deliver the capability and innovation customers expect from Ford trucks with a fraction of the complexity from previous truck programs.

Project T3 is short for “Trust The Truck” – a code name that stuck after the development team made it their rallying cry. The team’s single guiding principle has been to create a truck people can trust in the digital age – one that’s fully updatable, constantly improving, and supports towing, hauling, exportable power and endless new innovations owners will want.

The assembly plant will use carbon-free electricity from the day it opens. For the first time in 120 years, Ford also is using recovered energy from the site’s utility infrastructure and geothermal system to provide carbon-free heat for the assembly plant – saving about 300 million cubic feet of natural gas typically needed each year to heat similarly sized vehicle assembly plants.

The 3,600-acre campus also has a fully integrated BlueOval SK battery manufacturing site. On-site, the team will build battery cells and arrays and assemble battery packs that will be delivered just across the site into the assembly plant, in less than 30 minutes.

In addition, BlueOval City is developing an on-site supplier park and will have an upfit center capable of adding in dozens of Ford trucks’ most popular features – including robotically installed spray-in bedliners and integrated tool boxes before the pickups are released to dealers and customers.

To help reduce traffic congestion and emissions, the campus also has an on-site Lowe’s store supplying building materials, two construction equipment rental companies and three concrete batch plants.

Ford is introducing BlueOval Learning to empower future workers to build an EV future in America. This talent development program will strengthen skills, provide teacher support and increase work-based learning experiences. Key elements include:

• Building STEM curricula: Ford will support K-12 schools and universities to expand  existing STEM-related curricula and infrastructure
• Bringing advanced manufacturing to local schools: Ford will provide mechatronics training equipment and program development  in Haywood, Tipton and Lauderdale counties
• Kick-starting careers in high school: Ford will help to expand certifications and dual-enrollment opportunities for students
• Experiential learning: Ford will partner with colleges and universities to develop work-based learning such as co-ops and internships
• Premier training in advanced technologies: Ford will collaborate with higher education institutions to provide training on advanced manufacturing, EVs and battery manufacturing
• BlueOval City TCAT: This state-of-the-art training center, a $40 million investment by the State of Tennessee and created with the Tennessee Colleges of Applied Technology, will be a hub for education resources and best-in-class training programs

For more about employment at BlueOval City, visit https://corporate.ford.com/operations/blue-oval-city/tennessee.html.

Here is Fords 1hr long announcement about BlueOral City.

 

View full article

[David]

This pretty much continues to show how fast Tesla is slipping behind the auto industry and not leading it. They still do not have one pickup out yet and the Legacy will have multiple.

[smk4565]

This is good stuff, I am glad Ford is expanding and helping the push to eV, the faster we go all EV and EV costs come down the better.  Also it is good they are investing the education side, because this country as a whole needs more people in Manufacturing, auto repair, auto body repair and trades in general.  We kind of got away from making things here and a lot of the people doing trade jobs are older, once they retire we are screwed if there aren't young people doing it too.

2 million EV's by 2026, Tesla is already there.  GM and Ford will probably have a good battle for #2 EV maker, what I don't see from Ford is the volume vehicles outside of F150, which the Lightning as it now is far outsold by the ICE version.  Mach-E isn't a volume product, Ford needs the $30k Escape EV that can sell huge numbers.  Lincoln is a dead brand, you aren't getting volume there.  Ford could do well with pickups and vans for the commercial market.

[David]

@smk4565 Tesla is NOT a 2 million run rate auto maker here in the U.S. 

Ford Mach-E will continue to grow in sales. Like all new things, it takes time to grow sales volume. Toyota Prius was slow for years before the green movement took over.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Sales Numbers, Figures, Results (fordauthority.com)

Tesla Data

Tesla Revenue and Production Statistics for 2022 (backlinko.com)

As is proof, Tesla did not just turn on manufacturing and become a million plus global auto sales company, it took decades to get where they are.

Ford with just the Mach-E went from start to almost 40,000 in 2 years. Took Tesla 13 years to get to 35,000 global sales.

You say Lincoln is Dead and yet that is the biggest lie one can make as Ford believes in Lincoln and as such, has required all Lincoln dealerships to have stand alone locations by 2024 when they are going to move to pure EV products.

The Ford dealership by me that was a combined Lincoln/Ford dealership has taken their used lot which was huge and is building a full on Lincoln Dealership with it's own sales floor and delivery center. 

I will take a photo to post as it is coming along well.

Ford, Like GM and Stellentas knows the future for them is to transition to EVs and is making that happen including as in this case, RAM gets ready to roll out their first EV pickup at the start of 2024, they have shown their dealership a mid size EV pickup truck to also come out.

Ram shows off its second electric pickup to dealers (electrek.co)

This is two trucks from Ram, 2 coming from GM and 1 from Ford that is already out ahead of Tesla even getting close to Cybertruck production.

Tesla is the focus by all other auto companies and they are going to feel the pain.

Kia has also stated they are moving forward with an Electric pickup truck.

GM Pondering a Two-Door Compact Truck EV to Rival the Maverick (caranddriver.com)

If I was Tesla stockholders, I would be worried about the future for Tesla.

[smk4565]

@David

They can pave the Lincoln dealer lots with gold make them nicer than the Taj Mahal, their Lincoln cars are still no good.  They have 4 SUVs, all of which are segment average or below average and the Lincoln brand image is one of the worst of all luxury brand, probably only better than Infiniti.

Tesla can hit 2 million globally this year, 3 million next year and that jumps to 5 million in 2025 when Giga-Mexico is at full production.  They will be more than fine.

Question is how does Ford get 2 million EV by 2026?  Even if F150 is 50% EV by then which I think is a bit strong that is 300,000.  If the Mach-E is the best selling Ford SUV that is 250,000 of those.  E-Transit maybe 50,000 a year.  That’s 600k in the US maybe Mach-E in China and E-transit in Europe add another 250k, they sell 150k Explorer and Mach E in Europe.  That’s 1 million.  Need another million somewhere.

[smk4565]

I think people confuse number of EV models with good EV’s.  GM has a lot of EV models coming, but they are basically more expensive replacements for mediocre SUVs that don’t sell well now like the Blazer and XT5.  

[surreal1272]

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They have 4 SUVs, all of which are segment average or below average

Again, you have been shown this before yet you keep recycling the same nonsense months later, each time. 
 

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/luxury-large-suvs

 

https://www.kbb.com/suv/best-luxury-full-size-suvs/

 

 

[David]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

@David

They can pave the Lincoln dealer lots with gold make them nicer than the Taj Mahal, their Lincoln cars are still no good.  They have 4 SUVs, all of which are segment average or below average and the Lincoln brand image is one of the worst of all luxury brand, probably only better than Infiniti.

Tesla can hit 2 million globally this year, 3 million next year and that jumps to 5 million in 2025 when Giga-Mexico is at full production.  They will be more than fine.

Question is how does Ford get 2 million EV by 2026?  Even if F150 is 50% EV by then which I think is a bit strong that is 300,000.  If the Mach-E is the best selling Ford SUV that is 250,000 of those.  E-Transit maybe 50,000 a year.  That’s 600k in the US maybe Mach-E in China and E-transit in Europe add another 250k, they sell 150k Explorer and Mach E in Europe.  That’s 1 million.  Need another million somewhere.

So, you must be a Consumer Reports Follower as they have been the only place that has rated Lincoln dead last for the last two years for reliability.

When you look at a larger field of reviews, the average rating is a 7.7 out of 10 for reviews of all their auto's and this is for a complete portfolio that has earned a perfect 5 stars for every model they currently sell on the market by NHTSA. The Navigator last year and this year's model has earned a 8.4 out of 10 rating.

Are Lincolns Good Cars? | GetJerry.com

I would say you would be making a big mistake to use your response to me about Tesla, if you think Lincolns cannot compete, especially in the EV race.

Right now, there is no clear winner nor will there be as the whole industry changes over. Anything is possible.

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, David said:

So, you must be a Consumer Reports Follower as they have been the only place that has rated Lincoln dead last for the last two years for reliability.

When you look at a larger field of reviews, the average rating is a 7.7 out of 10 for reviews of all their auto's and this is for a complete portfolio that has earned a perfect 5 stars for every model they currently sell on the market by NHTSA. The Navigator last year and this year's model has earned a 8.4 out of 10 rating.

Are Lincolns Good Cars? | GetJerry.com

I would say you would be making a big mistake to use your response to me about Tesla, if you think Lincolns cannot compete, especially in the EV race.

Right now, there is no clear winner nor will there be as the whole industry changes over. Anything is possible.

Lincoln hasn't been competitive in the luxury market for about 35 years with the exception of fleet sale Town Cars which cornered the livery market for a while and the 1998 Navigator that got a jump on everyone for big luxury SUVs, but as soon as Cadillac, the Japanese, and Mercedes came out with big SUVs, that was over.  I am not expecting a Lincoln come back.  Them, Infiniti, Jaguar are all too damaged, Alfa Romeo too small and with too much baggage to make it big.   

And to go a step farther, I think Nissan and Stellantis are in some trouble, Mitsubishi and Mazda are in serious trouble, Subaru is in moderate trouble, but they could get bought out by Toyota to save them.   If you don't have that $7500 tax credit you are pretty much screwed, and if you have a $40,000 EV with no tax credit, but Tesla has a $30,000 EV plus a tax credit, then it is game over for you, at least in the USA, maybe they can go to China, but that is EV price war on steroids there.

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

1998 Navigator that got a jump on everyone for big luxury SUVs, but as soon as Cadillac, the Japanese, and Mercedes came out with big SUVs, that was over.

Yet that same Navigator routinely gets rated at or near the top of full size luxury SUV out there. I even provided you two examples above that you clearly wanted to ignore because yeah, Lincoln is just dead dog $h! to you. Full stop.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

If you don't have that $7500 tax credit you are pretty much screwed, and if you have a $40,000 EV with no tax credit, but Tesla has a $30,000 EV plus a tax credit, then it is game over for you, at least in the USA

Again with Tesla and their non-existent $30K price point. Seriously. Where do you come up with this? 

[smk4565]

58 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Yet that same Navigator routinely gets rated at or near the top of full size luxury SUV out there. I even provided you two examples above that you clearly wanted to ignore because yeah, Lincoln is just dead dog $h! to you. Full stop.

Again with Tesla and their non-existent $30K price point. Seriously. Where do you come up with this? 

4 consecutive years of sales decline with 112,000 being the high mark in the past 10 years.

 

Tesla, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, Cadillac, Acura, Volvo all outsold Lincoln last year.   Lincoln did beat Genesis, but Genesis is also growing and on the rise as Lincoln falls, so Lincoln might not even be top 10 in another year or two in their home market.  And globally it is worse, because they are probably getting beat by Genesis and JLR.

----------------

Tesla is building a factory in Mexico that will build the next gen car that is half the cost to produce as a Model 3.  Costs $34k to make a Model 3, so $17k production cost on the next-gen car, they can sell that at profit for $25k, but I am sure you'll have to pay for paint, wheels, interior, auto-pilot, etc so it becomes a $30k+ car before the tax credits that may be available.  Tesla's goal is 20 million units per year by 2030, I think that is overly ambitious, but they will hit 10 million easily, and to do that they penetrate the mass market at $30k, or with a $400 a month lease that is all in with free supercharging, free maintenance, Tesla insurance, no money down, FSD included.  Then it is a value play that no one else can match.

[surreal1272]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

4 consecutive years of sales decline with 112,000 being the high mark in the past 10 years.

 

Tesla, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, Cadillac, Acura, Volvo all outsold Lincoln last year.   Lincoln did beat Genesis, but Genesis is also growing and on the rise as Lincoln falls, so Lincoln might not even be top 10 in another year or two in their home market.  And globally it is worse, because they are probably getting beat by Genesis and JLR.

----------------

Tesla is building a factory in Mexico that will build the next gen car that is half the cost to produce as a Model 3.  Costs $34k to make a Model 3, so $17k production cost on the next-gen car, they can sell that at profit for $25k, but I am sure you'll have to pay for paint, wheels, interior, auto-pilot, etc so it becomes a $30k+ car before the tax credits that may be available.  Tesla's goal is 20 million units per year by 2030, I think that is overly ambitious, but they will hit 10 million easily, and to do that they penetrate the mass market at $30k, or with a $400 a month lease that is all in with free supercharging, free maintenance, Tesla insurance, no money down, FSD included.  Then it is a value play that no one else can match.

Wrong answer bar mover. You started with this.

"They can pave the Lincoln dealer lots with gold make them nicer than the Taj Mahal, their Lincoln cars are still no good.  They have 4 SUVs, all of which are segment average or below average and the Lincoln brand image is one of the worst of all luxury brand, probably only better than Infiniti."

 

And I answered it. You don't get to make up some other statement that ridicules Lincoln while ignoring the BS you spewed above. Besides you act like no other company has had its ups and downs, including your precious brand. How about we reevaluate this three years from now. That way, we will see what EVs have and have not done for all these brands you think will go down the tube because they are either A.) American companies and B.) They are not German. Otherwise, it is more trolling nonsense. Remember. You stated this with the 4 SUV comment that was easily debunked so either stick to that or come up with a better argument because your bar moving, when you get busted, is getting old.

 

Since you want to go there though, how about the Mercedes ledger? I see a lot of down years for them but I bet NOT once, was there talk from you about them not surviving or whatever excuse you would provide for them.

Edited March 27 by surreal1272

[David]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

4 consecutive years of sales decline with 112,000 being the high mark in the past 10 years.

 

Tesla, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, Cadillac, Acura, Volvo all outsold Lincoln last year.   Lincoln did beat Genesis, but Genesis is also growing and on the rise as Lincoln falls, so Lincoln might not even be top 10 in another year or two in their home market.  And globally it is worse, because they are probably getting beat by Genesis and JLR.

----------------

Tesla is building a factory in Mexico that will build the next gen car that is half the cost to produce as a Model 3.  Costs $34k to make a Model 3, so $17k production cost on the next-gen car, they can sell that at profit for $25k, but I am sure you'll have to pay for paint, wheels, interior, auto-pilot, etc so it becomes a $30k+ car before the tax credits that may be available.  Tesla's goal is 20 million units per year by 2030, I think that is overly ambitious, but they will hit 10 million easily, and to do that they penetrate the mass market at $30k, or with a $400 a month lease that is all in with free supercharging, free maintenance, Tesla insurance, no money down, FSD included.  Then it is a value play that no one else can match.

First off, Lincoln does have sales decline as they killed off their cars and then the Pandemic hit and the 3,000 roughly decline between 2021 to 2022 is on par with the whole auto industry decline due to the global pandemic. They have their stable of luxury SUVs and this year will truly show if their 5 star rated auto's along with all the reviews show an increase or not.

Genesis is growing and paying attention but then they are more car centric than SUV and their SUVs are fairly new. People are realizing that Genesis gives so much more value than many other luxury brands.

Lets STOP THE BS on Tesla. They have announced that they are looking to build a Mexico factory, they have not done anything and the government has not approved anything. The biggest reason for this is the water shortage the area that Tesla wants to build in and while as the latest news below states that Musk has verbally agreed to use recycled water and be non water user based company. They have not submitted any documentation yet, plans, etc. as such this is as Musk has said so many times, VAPORWARE. 

Tesla to build plant in Mexico | CTV News

Same with your comment, Tesla HAS NO $30,000 auto. Nothing has been shown, just words that they are working on such a car. Said the same thing about Tesla 3 that is VAPORWARE.

In regards to your value play, GM, Ford have been offering leases with insurance, etc. for years before Tesla started offering this. They are late to the party. GM and Ford both have offered this on their EV models from the start.

[surreal1272]

12 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla is building a factory in Mexico that will build the next gen car that is half the cost to produce as a Model 3.  Costs $34k to make a Model 3, so $17k production cost on the next-gen car, they can sell that at profit for $25k,

Nope, nope, and more nope. You can scream that price until the cows come home but Tesla has yet to meet any original price point brought up by them. Hell, VW has ready beat them to the punch in the sub-$30K game so where is their advantage two years from now when said factory will actually be done (hypothetically)? Answer, there isn't one. Only fanboy talk.

 

Tesla is building this. Tesla is building that. It is baffling how you post this like they are the ONLY ones doing any of this. They aren't but I'm sure you will be there to believe whatever price point promise nonsense that Elon tweets. 

Edited March 27 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

On 3/24/2023 at 9:28 PM, smk4565 said:

2 million EV's by 2026, Tesla is already there.

1.31M in 2022. That's about 33% off of 2 million. 

Do we know if they have the capacity to add 33% more in 2023? That's a pretty massive amount. 

[David]

Further proof that Tesla is going to have problems is that very large drop in Used EV prices now on par with ICE auto's. The Pandemic is over and prices are no longer going up.

Tesla Model 3 leads a nosedive in used EV prices (greencarreports.com)

21.5% drop in prices since September 2022 and still dropping. This is the same problem many other auto companies have had where new car price is hit with a large drop in value in only months.

Currently the average price of a new Tesla 3 is $44, 990 and with a 21.5% price drop in 6 months means your new auto is worth $35,317.15 or a drop of $9,672.85 value drop in 6 months.

Tesla Model 3 Costs Much Less Than Average New Car, Sans Incentives (insideevs.com)

Economy of scale does not always mean value price is kept and as we are seeing, Tesla is now dropping just as fast as other brands.

[David]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

1.31M in 2022. That's about 33% off of 2 million. 

Do we know if they have the capacity to add 33% more in 2023? That's a pretty massive amount. 

Per this latest story:

Tesla Production Sites By Model Assignment, Capacity: October 2022 (insideevs.com)

Based on the above numbers before any expansion that would need to be done at the plants per the story, Tesla at maximum capacity now would only be able to produce 1,900,000 or about 100,000 shy of @smk4565 statement of producing 2 million autos in 2023. The bigger issue is that Tesla Fit n Finish has gotten more attention and many Tesla fans are leaving Tesla due to the CEO and going with other companies EVs. Tesla will grow, but not as fast as I think some here believe. Especially without expanding existing plants which is not something they can do overnight.

Perfect example is their German plant where each time they want to increase production and hours of operation they have to file a request with the local Government and that take 90 to 180 days. They cannot just flip a switch for increase production and they still have their other projects to deal with.

[David]

Additional not good news for Tesla, but should benefit if Ford and GM are paying attention to long life of the battery packs.

Tesla Roadster Batteries Are Failing, Revealing End Of Life Symptoms (insideevs.com)

[David]

Ford Confirms ramping up of EV production limited till new battery plants come online. 

Ford CEO says battery supply is EV production constraint (electrek.co)

This gives GM a chance to surpass Ford as they will have much more battery production coming online this year with two truck launches and two SUV launches. GM could take #2 and next year even challenge Tesla for the sales crown of EVs.

Interesting times we live in.

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

1.31M in 2022. That's about 33% off of 2 million. 

Do we know if they have the capacity to add 33% more in 2023? That's a pretty massive amount. 

1.8 million this year, could hit 2 million if all goes well, but let’s say 1.8, so that is close.  Austin and Berlin expand next year, Cybertruck next year, gets them above 2 million in 2024.  If Mexico plant is running full speed in 2026 that is a 1-2 million units add and we are nearing 4 million.  The growth rate is the thing, Tesla is 40% a year increases while the market overall has shrunk the past 3 years.  
 

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, David said:

Further proof that Tesla is going to have problems is that very large drop in Used EV prices now on par with ICE auto's. The Pandemic is over and prices are no longer going up.

Tesla Model 3 leads a nosedive in used EV prices (greencarreports.com)

21.5% drop in prices since September 2022 and still dropping. This is the same problem many other auto companies have had where new car price is hit with a large drop in value in only months.

Currently the average price of a new Tesla 3 is $44, 990 and with a 21.5% price drop in 6 months means your new auto is worth $35,317.15 or a drop of $9,672.85 value drop in 6 months.

Tesla Model 3 Costs Much Less Than Average New Car, Sans Incentives (insideevs.com)

Economy of scale does not always mean value price is kept and as we are seeing, Tesla is now dropping just as fast as other brands.

Used Tesla prices are down because they cut prices and have a $7500 tax credit now.  Before that used Teslas were selling near sticker or maybe over it.  The long term resale value of a Tesla, say 5-10 years is still quite good compared to other brands.

The 6 month drop is because in September 2022 the average price for a used Model 3 was $52,000, now it is $41,000 because of the price cut and tax credit.  If you bought one now it isn’t going to drop 20%, it will sit where it is.

Iseecars

This is the market correcting from wacky prices.  But look at the top 10 biggest gainers, Mercedes, Porsche and BMW are 7 of the top 8 with the Escalade being the other.  So I guess there are some rich people that still think price is no object and buy anything, but the auto loan finance crowd is obviously changing their buying habits.

[smk4565]

4 hours ago, David said:

Ford Confirms ramping up of EV production limited till new battery plants come online. 

Ford CEO says battery supply is EV production constraint (electrek.co)

This gives GM a chance to surpass Ford as they will have much more battery production coming online this year with two truck launches and two SUV launches. GM could take #2 and next year even challenge Tesla for the sales crown of EVs.

Interesting times we live in.

As I have said all along, this is a battle of scale (production volume) and price.  The first to solve that has a huge lead.

When you look at a Hyundai Ionic 5 or 6 they are sized like a Tucson or Sonata but cost $15-20,000 more.  Mustang Mach-E is more expensive than an Escape, Bronco Sport, Bronco, Edge or Explorer.  None of these mainstream OEMs can do their current volume at those prices and most of these EV’s are being sold at a loss.  So how do they cut prices dramatically and then make profit?

[David]

40 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

As I have said all along, this is a battle of scale (production volume) and price.  The first to solve that has a huge lead.

When you look at a Hyundai Ionic 5 or 6 they are sized like a Tucson or Sonata but cost $15-20,000 more.  Mustang Mach-E is more expensive than an Escape, Bronco Sport, Bronco, Edge or Explorer.  None of these mainstream OEMs can do their current volume at those prices and most of these EV’s are being sold at a loss.  So how do they cut prices dramatically and then make profit?

You CONTINUE to Ignore production capacity. Tesla never cut prices as they could not bringing on Battery production capacity and auto capacity. Now with production plants up, they are able to scale and bring their costs down. GM and Ford will do the same. 

I have posted this over and over again and you IGNORE it as GM and Ford both have said as they scale up production, costs will drop.

55 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Used Tesla prices are down because they cut prices and have a $7500 tax credit now.  Before that used Teslas were selling near sticker or maybe over it.  The long term resale value of a Tesla, say 5-10 years is still quite good compared to other brands.

The 6 month drop is because in September 2022 the average price for a used Model 3 was $52,000, now it is $41,000 because of the price cut and tax credit.  If you bought one now it isn’t going to drop 20%, it will sit where it is.

Iseecars

This is the market correcting from wacky prices.  But look at the top 10 biggest gainers, Mercedes, Porsche and BMW are 7 of the top 8 with the Escalade being the other.  So I guess there are some rich people that still think price is no object and buy anything, but the auto loan finance crowd is obviously changing their buying habits.

OK, stop trying to fictionalize Tesla as a never slowing company when it is already slowing down big time. Even the financial forecasts by the industry show they will slow down.

Tesla-US-EV-Sales-Share-Forecast-By-Year-2020-2030 | EVAdoption

Globally Tesla Might hit 2 million EVs, but in the U.S. they are going to have their hands full just getting over 1 million this year. 

Tesla Quality and the CEO Politicalization is turning people off of Tesla Vehicles. I have posted links to many stories previously in various threads on how people are leaving Tesla due to the CEO.

Again, here is just one of the many examples of how Tesla is turning off customers due to the narcissistic arrogant Musk.

Drivers Ditch Tesla: I Don't Want It to Be 'the New MAGA Hat' (businessinsider.com)

Tesla Owners Ditch Brand Over Elon Musk's Twitter Antics (businessinsider.com)

Tesla owners lash out at Elon Musk after he slashes car prices by thousands of dollars: 'I feel like I got duped' | Fortune

He is losing the trust of the investors and his faithful followers.

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, David said:

You CONTINUE to Ignore production capacity. Tesla never cut prices as they could not bringing on Battery production capacity and auto capacity. Now with production plants up, they are able to scale and bring their costs down. GM and Ford will do the same. 

I have posted this over and over again and you IGNORE it as GM and Ford both have said as they scale up production, costs will drop.

OK, stop trying to fictionalize Tesla as a never slowing company when it is already slowing down big time. Even the financial forecasts by the industry show they will slow down.

Tesla-US-EV-Sales-Share-Forecast-By-Year-2020-2030 | EVAdoption

Globally Tesla Might hit 2 million EVs, but in the U.S. they are going to have their hands full just getting over 1 million this year. 

Tesla Quality and the CEO Politicalization is turning people off of Tesla Vehicles. I have posted links to many stories previously in various threads on how people are leaving Tesla due to the CEO.

Again, here is just one of the many examples of how Tesla is turning off customers due to the narcissistic arrogant Musk.

Drivers Ditch Tesla: I Don't Want It to Be 'the New MAGA Hat' (businessinsider.com)

Tesla Owners Ditch Brand Over Elon Musk's Twitter Antics (businessinsider.com)

Tesla owners lash out at Elon Musk after he slashes car prices by thousands of dollars: 'I feel like I got duped' | Fortune

He is losing the trust of the investors and his faithful followers.

I get that GM, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai etc will all scale up, and have costs drop.  I am saying it depends on how fast they do that.  Let's say GM can build 400,000 Equinox EV priced $30-40k starting in 2024.  If Toyota and Ford don't come out with a Rav4 EV and Escape EV that is scaled until 2027, in 3 years it is over, they are done in the small crossover segment.  They lose a ton of customers, lose a ton of money.  

That chart is also well behind, since Tesla hit 491,000 sales in the USA in 2022 is the estimated number, they will easily be over 600,000 this year, that chart's 2026 number happens in 2023. 

You keep saying Tesla is losing all these customers but sales were up 40% last year the Q1 forecast this year is up 40%.  By far the fastest growing car company.  Stellantis, Nissan, Honda, Toyota were all down last year and this year, double digit drops among most of their brands.  

And really Tesla is pretty unstoppable.  They are already the most profitable car maker, they are committed to EV expansion.  Ford, GM, Toyota, or anyone else can't really commit to it full force because they need to build ICE vehicles to make money.  

 

[David]

Every Dog has their day, or year. Tesla has been on a streak, but that does not promise to continue.

Tesla Revenue and Production Statistics for 2022 (backlinko.com)

Tesla was up 37.88% last year, 2022. That is not 40% and that 2.12% makes a difference.

Year before that in 2021, Tesla was up 121%. So they have actually dropped big time on growth if you want to go by percentages. If they are doing so well, then it should have been easy for them to do another triple digit percentage growth in 2022.

Tesla (TSLA) Growth Charts - Current & Historical Data (financecharts.com)

This speaks volumes.

Compared to GM

Compared to Ford

Here is the bible on statistic.

Tesla - statistics & facts | Statista

End result is now that Investor Day has happened, Tesla Economist are taking a far more conservative approach to Tesla.

Tesla Deliveries Expected To Set Record But Analysts Predict 2023 EPS Shrinking | Investor's Business Daily (investors.com)

Tesla for 2022 had projected a 50% improvement in sales/delivery's and only ended up 2022 with a 37.88% increase.

For 2023, Tesla has again stated 50% growth for the year, but even the analyst are saying at best 39% growth due to increased competition and a softening global market.

This year we have many EVs coming out and as such, this is going to take an affect on Tesla. They are already moving to old Legacy Auto OEM ways of price manipulation and production build up to move the books something they once blasted the legacy Detroit companies for as they touted their JIT Build to order system.

Clearly this year will be one of change and missed opportunity to some of these auto companies.