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SingleStylish

Which would you rather have?

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Like I said, I do this for a living! I spent an entire afternoon with the Corolla, Civic and Cobalt. If you compare the mid-ranged vehicles (not the leather seats and all the gadgets) the Cobalt and Corolla come out about the same, but the '05 Civic just sucks. Put your biases aside. The '05 was an engine with a 10 year old design around it. I have no doubt the '06 will be "better" than the Cobalt, just like the upcoming Ion will be better than the Civic - and so on and so on. Besides, the sum total of a car is more than just the feel of its knobs. What about automatic headlights, oil life monitor, side projector beam lights, etc., etc.? Timing belt versus chain. This argument is getting tired.

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LORD I wish I could be in person with some of you guys next to a Cobalt, Corolla, Civic, and Mazda3 so I could SHOW you how easily Cobalt fails to make the grade. AARRRGGGHHH


It is still just your opinion... Mr. Carbiz and Mr. SingleStylish said they've been in some of these vehicles and what they say isn't the same as what you say. So who's right?

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It is still just your opinion... Mr. Carbiz and Mr. SingleStylish said they've been in some of these vehicles and what they say isn't the same as what you say. So who's right?

[post="14435"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I'm certain there's a scientific aspect to interior design, what makes shapes pleasing or distracting, what evokes the unity and order of nature... kinda like Piet Mondrian's compositions. The new Civic ventures into new, daring forms, but it doesn't go outside the boundries of what's acceptable. The same can't be said for the Cobalt, which leaves me feeling... well, distressed.

I've discovered that generally most people who grew up with GM interiors are immune to it.

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New Civis is gross. Cobalt rules

[post="14444"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



Absolutely one of the most thoughtful posts I've seen in the years of being here... congratulations you have added so much to this conversation.

How about expanding on why you think the the new "Civis is gross?" Why does the "Cobalt rules?"

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Absolutely one of the most thoughtful posts I've seen in the years of being here... congratulations you have added so much to this conversation.

How about expanding on why you think the the new "Civis is gross?"  Why does the "Cobalt rules?"

[post="14604"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



Oh I posted before on this thread already. I will expalin it for you.

Its my opinion and is true for me and some others on here. You have your "opinions" and I have mine. No one is right.

As for the Civic being gross---the steering wheels and stacked guages do the trick to get that accomplished.

I get tired of so called experts bashing-----its not fact, sorry.

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Who cares if it maxes out at 200 hp, especially with the terribly thin rpm range one would have to deal with to get the power.  With most GM products, including the Cobalt, the HP & Torque are achieved via a broad power band. Another words it holds the upper horsepower / torque for a 3000 to 4000 rpm range, instead of a short 500 rpm range.

[post="13557"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


So many irritating Honda fans fail to understand this.

BTW: One of my favorite tricks is to go asking around at the dragway how many MPG racer's Civic's get. A Civic running high 13s with all engine or turbo is usually averaging 15mpg.

My 1968 Camaro runs 13s and get's 15mpg. Most Honda fans are so clueless. :rolleyes:

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It is still just your opinion... Mr. Carbiz and Mr. SingleStylish said they've been in some of these vehicles and what they say isn't the same as what you say. So who's right?

[post="14435"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Because obviously my point/opinion is not coming across in words......let's sit inside the cars and let me point out physical problems with the Cobalt design....and point out in person where Honda and Toyota do it much better....

And by the way.....my response here comparing Corolla, Civic, and Cobalt has been about fit-and-finish and material quality...I'm not talking about features, etc.....

AND, I'm not at all biased. Everyone thinks that because one of us on here slams a GM product or compares it less-than-favorably to it's Japanese competition, that we are "biased." Just because I CAN point out deficiencies in GM products doesn't mean I'm not a fan of that product.....it just means I'm not BLINDLY LOYAL.

I've said many times how much I like the Cobalt....overall....and would buy one over a Corolla. That doesn't mean I think the fit-and-finish or interior is as good as a Corolla....it's NOT. BUT, I'd buy the Cobalt because I think it is much more attractive and has alot more character than a Corolla.

BUT compared to buying it or a new Civic, now that's a tougher choice....

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Well, just FYI, I wasn't agreeing nor disagreeing with you. I was just saying that it's obviously your opinion as others had differing comments. And that's their opinion. That's all. :) As for Empowah, I don't understand what you see in the old Civic's interior. The shapes of the dash and seats make it seem more substantial? What? "I'm certain there's a scientific aspect to interior design, what makes shapes pleasing or distracting, what evokes the unity and order of nature... kinda like Piet Mondrian's compositions. The new Civic ventures into new, daring forms, but it doesn't go outside the boundries of what's acceptable. The same can't be said for the Cobalt, which leaves me feeling... well, distressed." And this... confuses me. What are the boundaries of what's acceptable?

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Sorry... I'm going to have to go with the Civic. It looks less ricey and ungainly outside. The interior sucks... but I have a GA, so I can't really complain much. I'm sure the build quality is better too... Not sure about driving dynamics as I haven't driven either, obviously.

[post="11602"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


:withstupid: :cheers:

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Oh I posted before on this thread already. I will expalin it for you.

Its my opinion and is true for me and some others on here. You have your "opinions" and I have mine. No one is right.

As for the Civic being gross---the steering wheels and stacked guages do the trick to get that accomplished.

I get tired of so called experts bashing-----its not fact, sorry.

[post="14605"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]




My response to your comment wasn't out of defense as much as it was about calling attention to useless posts. No matter you may think... I own a GM truck and now, as of 4 months ago, a Honda car. I am not a rabid Honda FANATIC. At one point, I was however a RABID GM fan. There are some things GM still doesn't accel at... they're working at it... in the mean time the Honda made sense personally as it does for so many others and have found the new Civic to fit that mold also.

The Cobalt, like it or love it, is light years ahead of anything GM has produced in the way cars for the common man. If they make the same amount of improvements within the next 4 years to the current Cobalt, I expect that I will like the Cobalt better than the Civic. But, until then... it stands to reason that a well built reputation, forward thinking design, better resale, and prices that deliver twice the "feeling" for half the price will always prevail. The Civic is just that.

The Cobalt is the "value" champion. Pure and simple and it delivers exactly what you pay for. Which is just right for some. Apparently you're one of those people. Which is fine...

I've written GM on many occasions to start selling vehicles that aren't "value" champions and instead the clearly better car. I would pay a premium if the car delivered a better "feeling."


PS For what it is worth, I have backed up my comments with intents to purchase... that sometimes is overlooked in these topics. To me that goes further than idle chit-chat.

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Based on exterior styling, I would choose the Civic Si. However, due to its awful interior, I wouldn't want it. So, my American bias (and along with its more attractive interior) I would choose the Cobalt SS over the new Civic any day.

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Does he have to? If he thinks the Civic is ugly, that could be enough justification to not get it over the Cobalt... regardless of how much better the Civic may drive, or etc. And if he is happy with his Cobalt SS, it shouldn't matter.

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Have you driven both to back that up??

[post="16794"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



not but I simply cannot get past the interior. On the other hand---I don't like the rear of the coupe at all----the 4 door looks better to me.

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I think the Civic looks much better than the previous model and have seen both of these on the road, but the Cobalt looks better, imo. The front of the Cobalt looks better, imo(in real life the Civic's fascia looks kinda weird), and the back looks 100X's better on the Cobalt.... The interior looks much nicer on the Cobalt aswell! I don't know what Honda was thinking when they designed this interior!!

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The Civic is making very nice HP from 6100rpm to 8100rpm.

[post="13803"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Tell me: how often would you keep your car revving at that RPM?

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Tell me: how often would you keep your car revving at that RPM?

[post="17968"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Or, an even more relavant question is how quickly can you get the car into that RPM range...

The most annoying thing about the S2000 is that you have to FedEx a request for WOT to the butterfly a week in advance in ordcer to get the power when you want it. Okay I'm grossly exagerating for effect but the truth is it annoys me to have to wait like 3.75 seconds in order ofr the car to reach it's powerband at WOT.

If I'm sitting in my Camaro at idle at a red light and it turns green, from the moment I push that gas pedal down to the floor to the car tearing up the rear tires mercilesly is only about 0.25 seconds. Basicaly it's INSTANT. And FYI my Camaro's 350 is setup & cammed to reach peak horsepower at relatively high rpms. The engine only really starts turning at about 4500 and redlines at 7000rpm. I've run the car at 7100 for a sec. or two before. In a life or death situation I'm sure 8000 would not kill it.

These new cars (Hondas in particular) seem to have a serious delay. It's like there's a blockage in the fel line or something. Even BMWs (I'm a BMW fan myself) have a serious delay in throttle response. <_<

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...FEDEX - well, no wonder. Fedex is AMerican. If you used a Japanese courier company, well, they are better you know.

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I thought the Cobalt SS was a proven and approved compact for performance ? It would look better if I had of made the final styling decisions but its pretty sharp and different from the pack. I have noticed that it seems all or rather most Japanese cars (I dont research them) now have the drooping lower lip grills ? I dont think they are that sharp, at all. I hope GM doesnt start doing this.

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I like Hondas or Acuras more Buickish tailights, GM needs to get back on the ball with this for our Buick division. I made posts on this in the older forum.

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How shallow!

[post="22791"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Can you write more then 8 words? I have expalined my stance already.

The 4 door is not bad looking, I saw one yesterday. But its the interior----from the gross steering wheel to stacked guages. Imagine if Chevy did that----the media would be all over them. But its Honda---they can do no wrong.

My Cobalt has a great interior. Nice textures and great fit. Its normal too! NOt freakishy werid

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Or, an even more relavant question is how quickly can you get the car into that RPM range...

The most annoying thing about the S2000 is that you have to FedEx a request for WOT to the butterfly a week in advance in ordcer to get the power when you want it. Okay I'm grossly exagerating for effect but the truth is it annoys me to have to wait like 3.75 seconds in order ofr the car to reach it's powerband at WOT.

If I'm sitting in my Camaro at idle at a red light and it turns green, from the moment I push that gas pedal down to the floor to the car tearing up the rear tires mercilesly is only about 0.25 seconds. Basicaly it's INSTANT. And FYI my Camaro's 350 is setup & cammed to reach peak horsepower at relatively high rpms. The engine only really starts turning at about 4500 and redlines at 7000rpm. I've run the car at 7100 for a sec. or two before. In a life or death situation I'm sure 8000 would not kill it.

These new cars (Hondas in particular) seem to have a serious delay. It's like there's a blockage in the fel line or something. Even BMWs (I'm a BMW fan myself) have a serious delay in throttle response.  <_<

[post="17974"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I am sorry, but you just cannot compare a small 4/6 cyl sport econo car to a big V8 muscle car! Sure the torque is going to be way down low on your camaro, you have the displacement to make power down low. Smaller car engines just cannot do that, short of Force Induction, so they need to make power by reving, hence the delay in power. You are comparing completly different cars from completly different categories.


John

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