gmcbob

After reading this, and seeing pictures of the Buick Park Avenue, which will only be sold in China, I have to agree with my Dad's assessment that GM management simply doesn't care about their car business anymore in the States. It's almost like they've thrown in the proverbial towel here in North America. It's insane. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they don't decide to kill the G8, that would totally blow. Now, I won't be too terribly depressed if they bring over that sweet looking Opel Coupe (GTC??), and perhaps the Opel Corsa too (as Saturns obviously) and keep the Caddy lineup all Sigma based, like it is now - and just add the Camaro and G8 from the Australian platform. But I was totally looking forward to seeing what the next Impala and Buick Lucerne would look like as rear drive cars. The upcoming Buick and Chevys would have so much more potential as rear drive models - styling wise and performance wise. Maybe the line of thought is this: with Pontiac having the G8, and Pontiac and Buick sharing showrooms, they didn't want one to steal sales away from the other?? Dumb thinking if that's the case, especially if they sold the Park Avenue here for $45 or $50k. Another thing that makes not having the rear drive lineup in the US so stupid is this: they could get top dollar for them if they were marketed correctly, pretty much covering whatever cost in penalties they'd have to pay for the gas mileage being off a little. And even if the CAFE rules became super stringent, don't they have a whole mess of small cars coming out to balance it all out?? I don't know, I'm pretty dumbfounded by the news - I was starting to get pretty psyched about GM again, and now I'm basically pretty disappointed.

I used to consistently get 28-30 mpg on the highway with old 1998 Camaro Z28 (4 spd auto). I don't understand why they couldn't get that with the new Zeta cars? I do think my city mileage was pretty bad though, maybe in the high teens?? I don't remember. Seriously though, this won't effect the new CTS, will it?

Okay, so the G8 is definitely safe? I"m only concerned because I think it would be absolutely pathetic if Hyundai offers a car I want, and Pontiac or Chevy doesn't.

Well, I guess I can always buy a Hyundai Genesis when it comes out if I want a $30,000 rear drive V8 sedan. :AH-HA_wink:

Okay, so does this mean that the upcoming G8 is on hold too? And certainly the new CTS (and STS for that matter) aren't being cancelled either, does it? If so, that would be the kiss of death for Cadillac.

If it wasn't for the trucks and SUVs that GM sells, they'd be in deep trouble in the Houston market. I see Impalas all over, but I don't know if that's because of fleet/rental or not?

Wow! Hooooray for the Park Avenue! Amazing. Up 68%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Overall, I think GM is doing okay too. It's interesting that I've noticed not only the STS declining in sales, but so is the Lexus GS model and the Acura RL. It seems that a lot of the $50k range sedans seem to be trending downward in sales. Cadillac will do well with the upcoming CTS. Hopefully they market and price it well - the styling and interior look totally top notch. Buick is in trouble I think - I'm sure the Enclave will sell however. I feel this is a direct result of a couple of key things that GM did wrong with Buick: 1) changing the names of their cars and 2) - not giving the cars the right engines/transmissions. The Lucerne should have the 3.6L DOHC engine from the Aura as standard equipment and so should the LaCrosse - with 6 spd transmissions. Lets face it, $30k + is a lot to pay for a Lucerne that isn't really all that modern (in the drive train dept.). I love the styling of the Lucerne, but the name is silly, and I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a car that I knew just wasn't competitive. It would bug me. I can't believe the Impala sells like it does. That's cool. I like the current SS model, but knowing about the upcoming rear drive cars, I wouldn't buy a current SS. I honestly think the best (mainstream) sedan offering from GM right now has to be the Aura. For the money, it clearly represents an incredible value. GM needs to really start pushing that car to the mainstream public a lot more. I'm not sure why the new full size trucks aren't selling as well. I'll bet it has to do with pricing. I have a feeling that you could probably buy the last generation trucks pretty cheap last year, starting about now. I'm still thinking that most dealers are getting close to full sticker on the new ones. Sales will pick up on the 900s once the discounts start coming. I think GM should have just come out priced $10k below Toyota with the Silverado/Sierra duo. Toyota would have been screwed. I seriously think GM needed to do that, to really clean Toyota's clock in that segment. They still probably will, but I would have come to this battle firing nukes, not RPGs. Oh, and they should have made the 403 hp 6.2L 6 spd. engine standard in the LTZ, but that's just wishful thinking I guess.

That was for the entire year. The only quarter they apparently made a profit in was Q4

I know the Tundra has a more powerful V8, but I think the reason it's so fast is the 4.03 gear. I wonder how well the Toyota would accelerate if it only used a 3.73 gear like the GM trucks? And vise versa, would the GM trucks be able to keep up a little better in an acceleration match if GM used a 4.03 or even 4.11 rear end?

I'm starting to see the Aura pop up around the roads here in Houston. I'm starting to see new Silverados here and there too. I saw a truckload of Silverados heading to a dealer this afternoon on my way home from work. A couple of "Texas Edition" models on the truck too (2wd but with the sweet 20" wheels). I actually really like those bigger wheels on both the Silverado and the Sierra. About 2 or 3 days ago I saw a truckload of new Toyota Tundras going down the road too. I haven't seen one yet out on the road with someone driving it, but I'm in Houston, and Toyota is insanely popular here, so it's only a matter of time.

Good pics - a G8 side profile pic now graces my background on my computer at home.

I love it. My only complaint ...why not 400 hp. like the 2007 GTO ?

It's funny that you say that - I've thought about that too - what would another owner, or more proactive management, have done by now with the Cadillac brand as far as taking their "art & science" theme a bit further? Well, I honestly think the 08 CTS is going to be really sweet, but I think they should have made this update in 2005 or 2006. The G35 Sedan and the Lexus IS have both been updated already, and as much as I hate to say it, they're both on my list of cars that I would actually consider buying. The STS is a fine car, but I've always thought it was a couple of steps short of being a truly competitive car to the 5 Series or the GS for the simple fact that GM overlooked some key styling and execution in the interior. I think had they gone the extra mile, and put an 08 CTS-esque interior in the current STS, it would a lot more competitive with the BMW and perhaps even stealing sales away from Lexus and Infiniti (it could be right now, I don't know, as far as "stealing" sales away). Honestly, I have a real soft spot in my heart for the Buick brand. My Dad worked there for a long time as a zone manager, and he brought home a different company car every other night when I was a kid. Park Avenues, LeSabres, Regals, and an occasional Riviera. They were all super sweet rides. I have a photo of me when I was 3 years old standing in front of a silver Century? Coupe with this crazy looking orange and black eagle painted on it. But anywho...I hate to say this , but I honestly think Buick is in so much "trouble" right now, that unless they do something very drastic with the product lineup (sorry, but the new Rainier isn't going to be enough I'm afraid), then the whole brand could just be abandoned completely in the next 5 or 6 years. That would be a tragedy for GM. But hey, like I've said, I'm speaking as a guy who lives in a town where the Buick is just not a popular car. I just don't see them in droves like I do other cars. Maybe there is some hope for Buick, but they need some super key "gotta have its" quick, like RIGHT NOW!

To add to what I was saying, I can't think of a single friend my age (I'm 32) that would even consider a Buick, or could even name a current Buick model. (other than me of course, because I know a ridiculous amount of information about all makes and models of cars, for some crazy reason).

I think you're somewhat right. I see a lot of "gray haired" people driving Asian nameplate cars these days, which actually is sort of surprising to me. As far as Buick getting younger people back into their showrooms, every now and then, I'll see a LaCrosse (not very many around here) with a younger guy in his 30s driving it, but I can't help but think that it's either a rental or a company car. Pretty sad, considering that back in the 60s and 70s, a Buick was actually a pretty "hip" car to own.

I will admit, I actually did see a new Lucerne in the parking garage at The Galleria the other day. It was the V8 (4 portholes). I actually really like the car, I think it would sell even better if it was advertised more. Honestly, I'd consider trading in my old 98 Jimmy on it if it had the 3.6 L engine and the 6 spd. tranny, but it doesn't. I do see a LOT of the new Impalas though. I saw a black SS a few weeks ago, that thing is actually pretty sweet for the price. When I get ready to buy, I'm going to probably look at the new CTS. I may just go totally not practical though and just get a Camaro.

I was surprised to see the Impala and Lucerne retail sales are up. Here in Houston, I hardly see any Lucernes - I mean, basically none. (Impalas I see a lot of though). I actually had a coworker ask me about 3 or 4 months ago: "do they still even make Buicks anymore?". (she's in her early 50s, drives an Expedition). I was almost in complete shock. Then, my sister, who lives in Atlanta, asked me the same exact question about 2 weeks later! Unreal. I was especially shocked that my sister asked me that, because our Dad worked as a Zone Mgr. for Buick in Buffalo back in the 70s and 80s. GM needs to start marketing their products better. It's pretty sad when people don't even realize that still make Buicks. (That should give you an idea of simply how few they sell outside of the Midwest).

I have seen reviews of the 6.2L Denali in C&D (with the new 6 spd. trans) and I think the 0-60 time was 6.2 seconds or something. It was faster than hell, I do remember that. On that note though, I have absolutely NO idea why GM launched these trucks with that old 4 spd. automatic as standard equipment, especially knowing full well that Toyota was going to come to this fight swinging hard and fast. Very stupid move I think. I guess GM is just banking on the loyalists not jumping ship - which most of them probably won't. But still...they should have made the truck awesome right out of the box in the drive train dept., and they dropped the ball on that, plain and simple. Oh well. I owned a 2001 and a 2004 GMC Sierra (the 04 was a Z71) - both had the 4.8L engines, and they were fine. I'm still undecided what my next vehicle will be - I'd love to have a new Camaro when it comes out, or maybe even a 300 hp. CTS, but I really miss my full size trucks. Perhaps a "Texas Edition" GMC Sierra (2wd) with the 5.3L V8 and the 20" wheels would be sweet? Currently I'm driving a 1998 Jimmy (I sold the trucks, long story, I basically became poor from trying to start a small business) and I'm getting awfully sick of it. The interior is falling apart and the old 4.3L V6 is really starting to show it's age. It's paid for though, and I can't bitch too much about that. sorry = sort of went off on a tangent.

Well, what are everybody's thoughts on this? The Tundra won, but it sounds like they really liked the Silverado a lot. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...photopanel..1.*

This car rocks! I can't wait to see it at the Houston Auto Show! Oh wait, it won't be at the Houston show. Huh???? Houston is only the 4th largest city in the country - and I'm not going to see the new CTS (at least according to the Caddy website). I'm officially pissed.

When I read Regal Grand National (twin-turbo 3800) Turbo I was seriously going to violently masturbate. But I guess that's a joke.

This is seriously the first word that came to my head when I saw pictures of this car: monstrosity noun 1. a person or animal that is markedly unusual or deformed [syn: freak] 2. something hideous or frightful; "they regarded the atom bomb as a monstrosity" WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University

It sounds to me like it's all speculation based on the article. But I think if I were heading up the product plan at Cadillac I'd drop the DTS and keep the STS (if I had to make a choice between the two). I'd bring over the Chinese model (long wheel based SLS) as well.

I think this is a great car for Buick and GM. This product may change my mind about driving a vehicle like this (especially if my wife and I pump out some brats in the next couple of years). Couple of big questions (which I'm sure GM is asking themselves too) 1) How do you let the Acura, Lexus and BMW driving populace, especially in places outside of the Midwest, know that this car actually exists and should be taken seriously? 2) What will it cost and will it turn a huge profit or not? These are 2 very serious issues that hopefully GM will be able to tackle and overcome.