Z-06

We traded a 2008 CTS Premium Sport model on a  a 2015 Cadillac ATS Coupe (Performance) with various discounts, a good trade in, and an ultra low interest rate we feel it was an okay deal. To be  frank the problem with the new CTS and ATS are that their pricing is at least $5- 6000 too high, and the V models to come are $10- 15,000 too high.  End of story.

This is the typical GM buyer mentality Cadillac has to meet or overcome.

I'm seriously considering a daily driver and one of the cars on my shortlist is the 2015 VW GTI, 4-door, with manual transmission and performance package. I'm yet to test drive it.

1. What I like, on paper, is that the car is a perfect blend of utility (hatch), performance, fun-to-drive, fuel economy, and features.
2. What I hesitate about is VW's reliability and dealer experience. Is this car now made in Mexico, unlike previous iterations that were made in Germany?
3. What  I dislike are the options packages. I do not have problems with with getting the S, but I hate the plaid seats. I dislike the panoramic sunroof for SE and Autobahn trims.

Tell me more about it. Your thoughts, your driving experience, your opinion, your dealership experience.

That GM Diesel engine is very good and possibly even better than the VW. Too bad GM wants to make it mainstream but doesn't want to support it through marketing. It's possibly going to be another GM wallflower.

SMK contradicting himself to prove the point he is thinking currently? No that has never happened!!

Distinguishing the more-driver-oriented GS is a tuning tweak that moves the torque peak of 295 lb-ft down the tach (from 3000 rpm in the regular Regal to 2500 rpm in the GS), supposedly at the cost of some NVH

The GS has a high-performance (Hi-Per, in GM speak), torque-steer-mitigating front-strut design, and the all-wheel-drive version replaces the rear multilink suspension with a control-arm setup, both doing a better job of keeping the tires firmly planted throughout the suspension travel. The Regal GS gets bigger brakes from Brembo, rides lower, and has standard 19-inch wheels or optional 20s (the latter clad in summer-only Pirelli P Zero tires). The driver can choose Sport and GS modes via dashboard buttons; they call for firmer suspension, tighter steering, and sharper shift behavior for the automatic.

That $6,000 discount is surreal.

 

 

A good name can't help a bad car, but a bad name can hurt a good car.

 

Concisely said to the point. GM of past had habit of changing the name to hide a bad product. The CTS and ATS have brand value and excellent product, why ruin them with the CT-# nomenclature? What is wrong to NOT be a conformist? F$ck Germans and their asinine nomenclature mockery.

That leaves 5.) as unconfirmed… for now. Talk it out amongst yourselves… on this one giving known years will likely pinpoint it.

Balth,

This is my source for clay modeling pioneers. At least knightfan and I are right on who started it. Era of start - 1920s to 1930s.

#1 - Ford Mustang

 

#4 - Chrysler used reflectors on the side markers, when Federal Law mandated lights for the side marker. 

Actually Camaro had more than Mustang at least four years ago. My only concern is his usage of word "automobile".

You are right on the lights for side markers. However, those were only for Dodge Models.

 

These consolidated appeals by public officials of the states of Vermont and New York arise from declaratory judgments and accompanying orders in favor of Chrysler Corporation and Chrysler Motors Corporation ("Chrysler") entered by the United States District Courts for the District of Vermont and the Northern District of New York. Both district courts held that state regulation of Super Lite, an extra headlamp offered as an optional accessory on some of Chrysler's 1969 Dodge automobiles, is preempted by the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966, 15 U.S.C. §§ 1381-1425 (Supp. III 1966) (the "Act"), and Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108, 49 C.F.R. § 371.21 (1969)¹  ("Standard No. 108"), issued pursuant to the federal statute.

#5. GM started at Cadillac in GM building in Detroit. Harley Earl first introduced the concept.

3. 93 minutes.

1. In 2014 - Chevroletdes Benz.

4. Chrysler vs. EPA?

All expensive sedans depreciate quickly.  Sports cars hold value, cars like a 911 or Corvette.  Which I never got why someone would pay $60,000 for a 6 year old 911 when a new one is $85,000.

 

Cadillac really needs the CTS-V to sell on merit so they can build the brand image.  You don't want to have the image of "we're the discount luxury brand, buy our car because it is cheaper."  You want people to buy to buy your car because it is better or the brand image creates some emotional connection.  That is how Porsche gets fools to pay $800 for a carbon fiber rear window wiper.

So SMK, in summary you are saying Cadillac cannot be standard of the world until it starts fooling the customers, even if it offers value, dynamics, performance, technology at par or superior than its competitors at a lower price. Got it!!

Priced about where you'd expect.  More than a Charger Hellcat, less than an M5.

All your favorite Europeans (which are this car's direct competitors) are more than Hellcat and a regular Charger combined, what is your point? Anything to belittle Cadillac? If you have no nice things to type, don't type anything.

 

 

Agreed... I just wish they had something in the GM stable that was more akin to the Grand Cherokee.  I like the Lambdas, but they are just too mini-van for me personally.  The GC is much more my cup of tea. 

 

Yes, GM really needs to target GMC against Jeep duo of Wrangler and GC. Alpha would be a good donor platform for that and also for amortization of the platform.

I don't see the point of the GLC coupe either, but dopes will buy crossovers no matter what, so I guess we are getting it.

 

They should just let the S-class take care of the Panamera.  The S-class is so good, I don't think even Mercedes could build a car that competes with it.

But yet you have problem with FWD SRX, which is selling more than the fancied Germans and bringing dope to GM.

Decade and a half of persistence.

This is a real solid effort from GM. I like the sedan in real life photographs. On many of the online forums people who are complaining about gauge clusters haven't seen Audi or BMW - especially the BMW.

If I had to bitch it would be lack of beautiful 7 speed Tremec from the Vette. This car deserves it.

And what is S Class?

Unless "competitor" means another whale shaped 4 door from another German brand.

Yes, it is the weak engine for a high price car like the $68,000 200 hp 4-cylinder, 5,000 lb Chevroletdes Benz ML250 that doesn't exist.

SMK, get the idea that > Sales = Best. This car was never intended to sell in volumes. The price increase using Volt tech was gravy on making money out of the platform and using it as a test bed for future development. We have discussed both the issues before in previous threads where you were proven wrong. Please go back and read them.

Stop circling around just like you do for other subjects such as $28B for Audi R&D, that thing has been refuted so many times even with your own acceptance. You may have CRS (Can't Remember $hit) disease but others don't.

To forward your point, to me, where material science know-how is concerned, GM is a far superior company than Ford and dare say even superior than many Germans.

GM's truck weights have increased by approx. 200 lbs from GMT800 to the K2XX despite of increased size, adding contents, increased rigidity and greater capabilities. Credit goes to the unseen and less sexy sounding stuff such as hydroforming and high strength steel usage and strategic usage of alloys including Aluminum. Disclaimer - I compared the LT 4x4 Short Bed Extended Cab models, which to me are middle of road in size hence should be middle of road in weight increase.

Other than the Corvette, which made substantial gains in weight (still <10%), most of the GM models introduced post-bankruptcy have been losing weight. Although not "sexily" perceived as Ford or Germans. Even then when journalist write about GM's attention to details to lose weight there is a hint of sarcasm when the results show on the scales. Ford's fallacy of 700 lbs loss was quietly slipped beneath the rug.

While Ford made progress under Mullaly, the main progress Mullaly really made is to create an aura of grandiose and good-will perception in the eyes of everyone. He was a master of splash and flash while hiding the chinks in Ford's armor. He came with credibility and "winning" perception from Boeing. GM really needs someone like him and/or like Bob Lutz. Not the latest hired buffoons in Cadillac that are already lacking credibility and have no successes underneath their belts.

Pontiac Tempest?

The grille question really threw me off guard. The plastic grilles possibly will be just past WWII era.

[bragging on] I feel prophetic - Chevroletdes Benz: Luxury Pretensions, Generic Intentions. [bragging Off]

What is worse, GM badge engineering within its own brands, or a "highly esteemed", "best at any cost", "the torchbearer" luxury manufacturer badge engineering a lowly manufacturer?

2. i was skipped to not to confuse people with number 1.

3. Chrysler Atlantic had a 4.0L I8 made from two 2.0L Dodge Neon engines.

4. Ensure quality control, prior to ramp up of production.

5. Mack Bulldog.

 

 

 

Regardless, I do not think the N/A should be the engine of choice for non-hybrid applications when almost all competitors are force induced at that power level. There should be two tunes of the 3.0T to simplify the costs.

 

You channeling a bit of SMK there?   ...   3 of the competitors have Forced Induction... the rest are Naturally Aspirated.

 

"At these power levels"

Jaguar, BMW, and Audi have forced induction.

 

Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, M-B, Hyundai Genesis, Kia K900, 300C V6... and if you want to be nice and include Lincoln are all naturally aspirated.

 

The key is the "at these power levels".  If you want more power, you need to go either to a V8 or a Turbo-6... which Cadillac will be offering as well.  It should be noted that a number of these competitors offer  less powerful base engines...  So if Cadillac is offering this 3.6 as the base engine, it will instantly have a an advantage.

 

 

May be I should I have said it better, "are or will be force induced". Yes, number of them offer less powerful base engines, but so will Cadillac in the form of 2.0T or 2.5 depending on the application.

 

So let's get back to your list.

1. M-B does/will too with the 400 and 450 or whatever the heck they are going to name the 3.0L on one bright morning.
2. Infiniti has forced induction lying in the wings as you saw at the Detroit release.
3. Lincoln/Ford has the ecoboost 2.3, 2.7 and 3.5 engines. All the company has to do is plug one in a Lincoln.
4. New - And Volvo is F-I too.
5. So the only manufacturers remaining are Lexus and Acura, which to my understanding Lexus will have one soon.
6. I do not consider Kia and Hyundai in this league because they do not offer multiple sausage lengths of "luxury" vehicles.

Hence, non forced induced vehicles are or soon to be in minority. Back to my premise, GM has no F-I motor in 300 - 375 hp range like its competitors and to me that is a drawback especially since these engines started with clean slate. And no matter how much you look at the torque curve of a N/A motor producing 80% of torque of F-I motor, it will not match the F-I jolt.

 

So no your perception of me being SMK is incorrect. I seldom make comments without looking at things comprehensively.

 

 

Again, I go back to "at these power levels".  The M-B 3.0TT will likely be more in line with the new Cadillac 3.0TT terms of power.. basically around 400 hp rather than 335 horsepower.   The Infiniti turbo with be a Turbo-4 not a Turbo V6.  Lincoln has Ecoboost, but is still offering the N/A V6.   Lexus's turbo will be a Turbo-4.   All of these will be either optional step up engines with the Turbo V6 or base engines with a Turbo-4.  As nice as turbos are, a 335Hp N/A V6 is still > 240~280hp Turbo-4

 

Drew, MW C350 has 329 hp, C400 has 360 hp. While Germans underrate their engines, they are not closer to 400hp. Also, Infiniti will have turbo 6.

 

Like that German triad, the Q60 will offer a choice of turbocharged four- and six-cylinder engines. The four will be nearly identical to the 241-hp 2.0-liter found in the C-class, as this product of the partnership between Daimler and Nissan-Renault will be built on Nissan’s engine line in Decherd, Tennessee, which is already shipping engines to the Mercedes plant near Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

Again, Lincoln has a Turbo 6, all it needs is to start putting into a vehicle. Don't talk about optional or step up. GM has a turbo 4 competing with the ~240hp turbo 4s of the competitors. There is no F-I engine from GM to compete with the competitors' offerings in the 300 to 375 hp range, period. 3.6 is not a Cadillac but GM's parts and bins engine that was released as a Cadillac first, which is just cheeky on GM's part.

 

Another article on Johan and Uwe bong with some statements stretched and facts needed to be checked.

 

Put up or shut up. If you have proof then present it vs. sniping.  

 

Post storied and or links that tell a different story that would account for the failings at Cadillac. Also be fair nothing based on Opinion.

 

What they have to say her is legitimate and logical enough to let them do what they have to do. How long have we see Cadillac go with so little focus, little true identity of their own,  funding and even when  they get it right no marketing.  The problems they found here are similar to what Lutz found all over GM. His book points out case after case of a culture that just did not work internally. And some of the things they eliminated were shocking in the 90's let alone since those who were not the problems have taken charge.

 

My, my we are taking the things personally aren't we? I am asking that question to Johan and Uwe and the author of the article, not its messenger here. I have read Lutz book also and so of Car Czar to determine as an outsider what GM is. And GM's culture has been rehashed here million times so what these two highly intelligent people say about it is not genius. And while I am fan of Lutz because he did put up and earned the right to shut up, these two jokers are yet to do that.

For starters:

 

In 2000, GM poured $4.3 billion into the brand and got momentum with the hulking Escalade SUV and the first CTS sedan. But soaring gasoline prices in 2005 and the financial crisis a few years later halted Cadillac’s progress, and GM spent little on new cars.

Escalade came in 1998, and CTS in 2002 so $4.3B was not exclusively on those two vehicles. And gasoline prices didn't soar till late 2007.

 

But soaring gasoline prices in 2005 and the financial crisis a few years later halted Cadillac’s progress, and GM spent little on new cars. The result: Cadillac sales tumbled 6.5 percent in the U.S. last year, making it one of only three luxury brands to lose ground. Only the Escalade sold more vehicles. Cadillac still appeals to older folks, with the average buyer clocking in 64, 15 years older than the average BMW owner, according to San Diego consulting firm Strategic Visions Inc.

Didn't you and Micasa pooh pooh about how the loss of sales last year was due to lack of body styles? Not the economy? You cannot have it both ways. I agree with your assessments.

 

“Cadillac is surprisingly relevant,” he said. “It enjoys a cultural connection that few other brands have.”

Yet changing names into a alphanumeric garbage makes sense.

Most of development has happened before those two clowns joined Cadillac. What have they done yet? They better put up or shut up. Like I said before, I only comment when I know facts. Now you my friend on the other hand go back and put up or shut up and not snipe about oil and SS being production limited by GM rather than people not buying it.

It seems like Chevy is differentiating between the Malibu and Impala at least power train wise. Keeping a gap of ~40 hp. While power may not be the main differentiator in this segment, the low power of the base engine compared to its competitors is perplexing.

Design wise, I like it. It is not overtly trying and yet simple. It does mimic Impala from the rear panels.

To GM's typical hypocrisy: the car is made "Sporty" yet no manual transmission! In a world where Mazda6 and Honda Accord Sport are getting high teens to low twenties manual transmission take rate, something from GM would be refreshing. Other than Mercedes Benz, GM is the worst when it comes aversion to offer stick cars.