fbodfather

Members of the Camaro Summit:

Dan Porcaro -- New Jersey

Cara Ferguson - Texas

Selena Muhoberic -- Louisiana

Jeremy Donovan -- Virginia

Jason Debler -- Michigan

Sherrie Slocum - Ohio

Maggie Finn -- Oregon

Cetera Heino -- Oregon

Chris Livote -- New York

Kevin Kolvenbach -- New York

Elie Garfinkel -- Ontario, Canada

Janet Curran -- California

Tim DeYoung -- Illinois

Art Schroeder -- Manitoba, Canada

Millicent Odell -- Texas

Do you know any of them? Go ahead and contact them via email and let them know your thoughts on Camaro!

Let me address some concerns:

We've talked to competitive make owners-- and competitive make intenders.......and just about everyone you could imagine.

However -- we felt that it was important to talk to Camaro/Firebird/Corvette owners on a variety of subjects that we think they can add value. (evidently there are a few out there that must think we should ignore our enthusiasts - and to them, I say -- WRONG!)

So.......we went to a 'private' enthusiast site. (Had we gone out to all enthusiast sites, we would have been buried in essays-- Frankly, we don't have time to read a couple of thousand essays -- I wish we did, but we don't! -- further, we would have upset some website owners if we didn't post on their sites.........see where I'm going with this???) We asked all members on that site -- who were interested in serving in a focus group -- to submit an essay of 200 words or less on WHY they'd be ideal for this "Camaro summit' --

Interesting results:

8 men / 7 women (15 total)

Youngest is 20

Oldest is 66

All have owned Camaros

Most still own Camaros -- all generations represented

Some own Firebirds

Some own Corvettes

They come from all over the United States -- and two come from Canada.

HH Income runs from $45K a year to WELL over 6 figures

All are very intelligent and can communicate very well. (as evidenced by their essays)

All are involved in Camaro clubs/websites and are active in these clubs/on the sites

All will be expected to sign a confidentiality agreement --

They will be allowed to discuss some items with you -- our enthusiasts

They will be prohibited from talking about other items

They will drive the Coupe and Convertible at the Milford Proving Grounds

This is the right thing to do.

And we very much look forward to working with them.......

I'd cut Buickman.

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I'll second that!

It's true that Rendezvous has sold well, but only because of cheap leases. It is a Mexican made motor vehicle with a fancy French name, looks like an import, and was promoted as "The Spirit of American Style". This is far from a classic example of effective marketing. The vehicle did however bring a new class of customer to Buick. Trouble is they will now be left behind, as were previous Buick loyalists (see 4/01 when Park Avenue lease supports were pulled as the spring market began) when GM abandons this category for the more upscale and expensive Enclave. Tens of thousands of Rendezvous lessees will be left to scramble for a replacement within their budget.

Buick once sold 800,000 units in a year, now we are diminishing rapidly toward 100,000. Olds was similarly taken apart from 1,000,000 to ZERO. No one is that sequentially stupid. Wagoner and Company know exactly what they are doing, which is why he continues to have the support of the Board of Bystanders. Most Directors are also members of investment banks, including Morgan, Deutsche, Goldman Sachs, and of course the infamous Merrill Lynch. Ask yourself why these large insititutions have kept their stock as it lost $50 Billion in value, and backed "Red Ink Rick"? They have, and are, bleeding the Corporation of untold Billions in investment banking fees and shenanigans like Fiat. Meanwhile management has continued down their chosen path toward eventually owning distribution of offshore production.

Now suppose this Grand Plan of "Rickin' Little" (Blue Sky HAS fallen) had been conceived from the womb like Dell. It wouldn't be so bad having not had to lie to shareholders, dealers, customers, employees, and retirees. If communities across the land hadn't become so intimately intertwined with the prosperity of GM's American operations perhaps Wagoner's desired business model would be of benefit. Since that is not the case, and since he has LIED about his direction, goals, and purpose, it's well past time he be removed from his position and placed before a Grand Jury.

Buickman

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OK.....now I'm more convinced than ever that you've completely lost it and need professional help. And no, I'm not being facetious.

There is soooooo much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.

(and you are reduced to further name-calling? 'Ricken Little???')

Consider that perhaps the greatest automobile buying demographic (baby boomers) were allowed to move through the Buick segment as it was starved of product and exemplified by assinine marketing. Ponder the thought of a successful division retaining and even winning these potential customer dollars, then you'll likely realize the utter, complete, and unaccounted for failure by GM management. Still, their legions of lawyers, accountants, and spin artists create and provide more illusion than most even partially comprehend.

Buickman

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This tells me you don't understand what's happened within the auto industry ...and how the playing field is NOT level.

Plymouth is gone.

Ford is struggling.......

........GM has more Divisions than any manufacturer........

.................any idea of what a new entry costs????

Don't mean to bash -- but being that you're bashing.................

Cameras are allowed both at Tech Center and at Heritage Center -- and we encourage them for this activity!

Beer is DEFINiTELY out of the question.

Smoking is allowed at the Tech Center outside. (boy am I lucky on that one!)

Smoking is only allowed outside at the Heritage Center.

Trust me - show up -- you will NOT be disappointed!

Please use Gate #9 == on Van Dyke...follow the Camaro signs...and yes, ALL Camaros are invited!

BE THERE!!!

GM Tech Center - Camaro Rally -- Aug 10th.......

Many of you have talked about gathering your Camaros (and Firebirds) in front of the GM Tech Center to send a message to GM that you want to see the Camaro Concept make it to production.

Classic Chevy International and World Wide Camaro are having a show at the GM Tech Center in Warren, Michigan from Thursday, August 10th to Saturday, the 12th. This is the perfect time to gather and let GM know your feelings.

Plan to be at the GM Tech Center on Thursday morning, the 10th at 10:30. You will enter thru the Van Dyke entrance -- and proceed to the “Amphitheater” -- we’ll have signs leading you there. (see directions below)

YOU MUST HAVE THIS INVITATION TO GAIN ENTRANCE TO THE TECH CENTER---AND.......(here’s a bonus) ---

>>We’ll be giving tours of the GM Heritage Center<<<

-- again, you MUST have this invitation with you........we’ll have a desk set up at the Amphitheater where you will sign up for the Heritage Center tour-- we’ll give you directions -- and this invitation will be your entry into the Heritage Center. Tours will be from 2 to 5 that afternoon.

I realize this is a last-minute plan and I apologize for this. However, I know many of you feel very strongly about showing GM your passion for the Camaro -- and the bonus is that if you do attend, we’ll allow you to view a nice representation of GM’s Heritage Collection -- cars from 1902 to the future -- including many concept cars from the 40s, 50s, --right up to the present.

I hope to see you there! (please post if you intend to be there - I'd like a rough estimate of people-cars)

Directions to the General Motors Technical Center:

Interstate 75 to Interstate 696 East. Exit at Van Dyke Avenue. Turn left onto Van Dyke Avenue. You will be traveling north. Cross over 12 mile road and get into left hand turn lane at traffic light directly across from Campbell/Ewald Building.

Signs will guide you to the Amphitheater. We’ll have ample parking for Camaros and Firebirds.

Good Lord!

This news could just KILL BM!!!

I think Hezzbollah must be behind these numbers!!!!!!

Tint coat is extra because of the paint process -- it goes thru the paint process a second time.

Regular colors get a color coat, then a clear coat.

On a tint coat, the car gets a color coat -- a 'tint' coat -- and then a clear coat.

Trivia -- the Millenium Yellow on Corvette - -the tint coat was actually green.

The proof is in the pudding....TWENTY TWO PERCENT SHARE. I don't see Toyota crying about the economy, the weather, fuel prices, or last years efforts. Fact is GM is on a downer caused by the lack of leadership and complete ineptitude at VSSM.

Buickman

this in and of itself tells me you don't have an understanding of the automobile manufacturing business -- nor do you evidently understand that there is NOT a level playing field.

Oh.......and by the way....you may have advised dealers -- but you aren't a dealer...............hmmmmm..............

welll I didn't get past the first three or four posts.

See........the beauty of being a pundit is that no matter what the company decides, the pundit will spin it to make it look like he knows what he's talking about.

I wonder if a certain someone has paid licensing rights??????

--- well, I'm pretty happy with the poll...........

........but this is why we don't like spy shots -- no control over what you see. That's not a good picture -- the hood's open (and yes, there are actually people out on the net raging about the fact that the fit and finish of the hood is deplorable......) -- and it's just not a good angle for you to be able to see the truck.

I've seen them -- and yes, I'm prejudiced -- but I think they're much better looking than the last gen truck (esp. the first two years) -- and, for that matter (and I'm showing my age here......) -- the 1973 and the 1988 when they first came out.

As I've said many times before -- OK to have an opinion, but you'd be wise to wait and see it in person before making a final judgement.

........and while I'm on the subject of Friedman --

..........ever notice he's an expert at everything -- but unless I'm mistaken, he's never run a business?

I don't think there's a person within GM -- or any of our dealers for that matter, that want to see GM become number two.

But there are a few problems that we (as America) don't seem to address:

The Japanese are very good at predatory trade practices. Try exporting something to Japan -- Unless it's raw materials, it's not gonna happen. There are volumes upon volumes of cases where people and companies in other countries try to get into the Japanese market -- and they are stymied at every turn. They continually change the rules and regulations -- making impossible.

The Japanese understand that in order to grow their economy, they must exportexportexport -- and further -- they see the value in doing everything they can to ensure that happens -- including buying Japanese.

That doesn't happen in most countries -- esp. this one!

(and -- by the way -- I didn't see one good point in Friedman's response....it's malarky.)

SEE!!!!!!!

ANOTHER THING Wagoner has done wrong! HE PERSONALLY DID IT!!!!!

--------as well as cause the Tsunami ----

.........................and Hurricane Rita................................

......................and -- uh..............hmmmmmmmmmmm.............

..............Temporary Water Weight gain.............yeah, that's it!

How? I correctly predicted the sale of GMAC, the absurdity of GMS and the $10 Billion loss. I called for Wagoner to resign before it was fashionable and introduced a comrehensive plan to increase market share with lowered expense.

Yet, some of you would crucify me at every turn. It's tough being a visionary.

Buickman

nooooooooo............no increased market share with lowered expenses -- if that were the case, we'd have done it long before you walked into the RenCen.

Here's what I can't understand: you get upset when people 'crucify' you -- hmmmm....but it's OK to crucify Wagner? I've been on these boards for a long time.......and I gotta tell you in the nicest way possible: I've never seen so many people agree on one thing: You don't get it!

The rules for the meeting were established and each shareholder was given 2 mintues per topic, total of 15 minutes for the entire meeting. I spoke briefly on four topics but was not allowed to speak about the final area, new business. Wagoner promptly cut off the meetiing before giving me a chance to make a number of points gregarding GMAC, marketing, and more. I was the first to register for the topic, yet he shut off the microphones while looking right at me waiting. He's a weak kneed chief executive who is afraid to face constructive criticism.

Buickman

No, actually, he's a wise man. Perhaps it's because nearly everyone sees thru you!

I believe he also killed Jimmy Hoffa and burried him under the high-banked turn on the straight-away at Milford.

actually, he killed him and buried him in my office under the mountain of papers and such that are stacked up...................................

Here's a thought -- why don't you go after ALL CEOs of most legacy companies?

Half of what you're claiming is wrong or distorted.

How many other websites are putting up with you.

(to the rest of you out there -- my apologies -- I should sit and ignore this, but I'm really fed up with someone whose sole purpose in life these days is to hound one person............

...................isn't this called 'stalking?')

As for Jim, your plan won't work everwhere and most parts should not be directed at GM management but instead should be directed at regional dealer bodies because they are dealer centric (as is your level of experience).  You do not bear enough corprate or engineering or design experience to field a job such as CEO or COB of GM.  Also it would take you at least 12-24 months to understand exactly all of the realms of power than you have to manage over, design and cost decisions, or to understand the complex approval structure, which it took Bob Freakin' Lutz 18 months to understand (who by the way has worked at GM prior to this as well as Chrysler, BMW, and I believe Ford.)  If it takes someone who has more experience than 80% of Auto company executives and corprate personel that long to undestand just the approval process then how long would it take someone with NO corprate experience to understand all the aspects of CEO?

91Z4Me--- you pretty much summed up most issues in one paragraph! Kudos to you!

Jim -- how many people within the auto industry (not dealers) have to tell you that the plan (with exception of say two or three items) are not doable and WILL cost a substantial amount of money.

Go re-read "91's" paragraph a few times and learn.

I agree with "91" and have told you on several occasions that your efforts would be much better directed at the retail level. Have you ever approached NADA about some of your ideas?

The point is this: In my humble opinion, you at one time had some ideas -- and that's good. But it's painfully obvious that very few are listening to you (people within the manufacturing industry) -- and you've become a cariacuture of sorts.

Further -- you lost ANY credibilitywith me when you started the juvenile 'songs and ditties".............

Oh -- and Satty? You forgot one: He kidnapped the Lindberg baby..........

I am more appalled that a member of GM decision making, whom is actually corporate would say what Dollinger is saying is wrong.

He is bringing up issues that need to be addressed.

Mr. Settlemire, I have the utmost respect for you, the Chevrolet brand and the Camaro team, but why ignore his issues?

By the way Scott.....I will send you information about a new "venture" soon.........it's something along the lines of a GM place or SOURCE to go to in the future instead of the "norm" places.

Josh -- many people have addressed 'the plan' -- and trust me, if it was doable, we'd do it. BM and I have emailed each other......in fact, many people, I daresay..have written to him both privately and publicly telling him why the 'plan' for the most part is either 1. not doable 2. not practical, 3. illegal or 4. cost a ton of money.

The problem is that he doesn't want to listen. I'd be the first in line to support the plan if I felt in my heart that he was correct. I don't. Meanwhile, he's on a tear to bash Wagoner any way he can including juvenile 'songs' that he's written.

I'm not saying that you can't criticize GM -- or Mr. Wagoner for that matter. On the other hand, to constantly slam him -- in any way possible -- is ridiculous and I find it offensive.

I think it's time for personal attacks to end, and pointless posts to end. Fly, stop

Josh...you say "I think it's time for personal attacks to end........"

What exactly is it that BM does in nearly every (if not every) post he's ever put on here?

When anyone questions him or challenges him, he attacks.

Are you that blind? Surely you can't be.

Josh....I know of the Causley Family. I went to college with two of them.

I know several other fine dealers in southeast Michigan. The point is this: Southeast Michigan is 'neverneverland' in the overall scope of the American Market. So if that particular family didn't sign that they're in support of Wagoner, I'm not real concerned.

Don't believe me about the S.E. Mich. market? Lemme take you on a tour of Greater New York.......or Los Angeles .......or San Francisco.......or South Florida.

Those dealers know what the market is really like.....'cause they don't have manufacturer employees all around them. Those are the dealers I'm most apt to listen to and pay attention to and give credence to. I'm not belittling dealers in South East Michigan........just pointing out that the business is completely different in so many different respects.

I've yet to see one attack he's made on people, yet others consistantly drag his name through mud. It's not just about him, it's the fact that people can't say what they want here about how to fix the company without being chastised?

oh man............

*shaking head*

Josh........are you KIDDING ME?

You've not seen one attack he's made on people?

What do you call his daily rants on the people of General Motors?

This thread is so far off base, it's ridiculous.

While I'm here, let me set a few things straight........ (and this is personal...it has nothing to do with the company I work for.....)

Wagoner did not hire Zarella -- he was brought in at the urging of the Board of Directors......the former Proctor & Gamble CEO who served on the GM board -- whose name escapes me -- brought Zarella in.

The Number One GM salesperson in History would be Joe Girard.......sorry Buickman, but you're not even close. Not sure what your sales numbers are, but methinks there are many old-line Chevrolet salespeople that outsell you as well.

Josh -- GM did not sit around and do nothing for 20 years. To say such a thing is simply ludicrous. (note the spelling)

It would be highly unlikely for GM/Ford/DCX to gain meaningful market share (meaning above 30% ....when you consider the american consumer has over 280 nameplates to choose from......and that will grow to well over 300 by the end of the decade. The 'pie' (meaning the american market) is relatively stable at 16 to 17 million units a year. Every time another manufacturer comes into the market, someone's piece of the pie is gonna shrink. Do I like that fact? No. Will I die trying to change that for GM? You betcha!

Wagoner is not a crook and I think it's slanderous to say such a thing.

I find it offensive that someone puts his name in the same paragraph -- or the same footing (at least it sure appeared that way to me) with names like Durant/Nash/W.P. Chrysler/Mott/Curtice........ This reminds me of Dan Quayle making a similar claim and Lloyd Bentsen saying "I knew Jack Kennedy -- you are no Jack Kennedy!"

The bottom line: If you attack people, get used to them attacking back.