axoid

Provided GM survives, I think that an Alpha Camaro will be tailor-made for your purposes.

That has been what I've been hoping for.

Just curious, how?

The wood trim, the busy aluminum center stack with that "I want to be a Bentley" clock. It is like it's trying too hard. I have simple taste, anything more is a distraction. It is the same reasoning that will keep me from having any BMW with iDrive.

Then again I would probably be happy with a car that had a striped interior and a roll cage. Wait a minute, I have one of those.

If the car is doing that to RWD cars of twice the price, what advantage does RWD bring to the table?

If you have to ask that, then I would bet you have never driven a RWD car in anger. I raced FWDs, RWDs and AWDs and I swore to myself that I would never own another FWD car. With a FWD all you can really do is throw it into a corner and hope it sticks and if your really good maybe play with the parking brake a little. With RWD and the better AWD setups you can literally dance the car on the edge of grip using the throttle and a light touch of the steering. It is had for me to explain, you have to experience it to know what I'm talking about.

I have a Saturn VUE Readline and at 181" it just fits in my garage. The 192" Camaro takes the long side of the garage. So I'm needing something that is 183" or shorter. That kills the CTS and the Camaro. And even if I went with the Camaro, it still a 3800+ lbs beast that I doubt will be able to match the 135 in performance and will be for the next year selling for more than 36 grand price of the BMW. I did look at the CTS. I love the exterior, but the interior is too pimp-my-ride for my taste.

I hadn't thought of the awd 9-3. It is still heavy at 3800 lbs. and significantly more money than the 135.

The 92 Camaro is staying on autocross duty.

On is a sedan, one is a hatch, and the other is a sedan or coupe. Need I remind you that the Lancer Evo is AWD based on a FWD platform and the R32 is FWD. How do they meet your requirements? What the hell are your requirements?

Want a RWD car? How about a CTS, CTS-V, the upcoming Camaro? Wants something small and fast? Cobalt SS, Sky Redline or Solstice GXP

The G37 isn't all the small, a little bigger and you have the CTS/CTS-V.

..if they had a car that meet my requirements, a performance car that is small, fast, seats four and is rear wheel or all wheel drive. There are at least 6 on the market that meet that spec.

The VW R32 is all wheel drive. I agree the G37 is a little on the big size, but it is still more than a full foot shorter than a CTS.

I'm scratching my head trying to come up with all of them:

1-series

Impreza

A3

Lancer Evo

RX-8

VW R32

G37

And this would be the Quote of the Day.

I would call this the definition of irony: here is a man who clearly doesn't understand the point to the posting in Edmunds. GM, Ford and Chrysler must (and I can't be bothered to count them) build at least 100 different models of vehicle, available right here for purchase at a local dealer. But, no, that is clearly not enough for some people.

Is there no end to this madness? Must we walk into a liquor store and spent 45 minutes trying to pick out a bottle of wine because there are, like, 300 brands? Do we have to stand in line at a coffee shop to pay $5 for a coffee while some ingrate tries to choose between the 50 flavors, 12 sizes and 18 cups? It's friggin' coffee!!!!!

Nothing personal, Axoid, but every time some a-hole in a BMW tries to run me off the road while yakking on his/her cell, I pray that his/her job is the first one gone as our society circles the drain.

I get the point just fine. Every car or truck that I have owned in the last 20+ years has been American. All but one was GM. I would by American again, if they had a car that meet my requirements, a performance car that is small, fast, seats four and is rear wheel or all wheel drive. There are at least 6 on the market that meet that spec. Most are Japanese, none are American, and since I still won’t by Japanese, that leaves the Germans.

I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not the average buyer looking for a consumer car. I had great hopes when Pontiac was supposed to become the rwd performance division, but that has come to nothing. I was also interested when Lutz was talking about the next Caddy BTS, but that is not here ether. If I was in the market for a mid-size family sedan, I would be the first in line at a Saturn dealer.

Cobalt SS is faster around Nurburgring than an E92 coupe. The Cobalt SS can be purchased with Stage II kits.

I haven’t seen a time for the 135 on the ring, but I would guess that it would be faster than a 335 since it is lighter, smaller, runs bigger brakes and has the same engine as the 3 series.

In all the other metrics that I have seen, the 135 matches or beats the Cobalt SS. Specially at 0-60, by a full second.

Your car looks a whole lot like a 92 Camro that runs at our local SCCA events. Your not a member of the OVR region of the SCCA, are you?

Either your car or one jsut dead identical to it lost the E street prepared chamionship to a grabber orange Mustang in the last event of our season.

Chris

That is me running at OVR. I missed 3 events and lost the championship by one point. The mustang only actually beat me once. Over all it was a good year.

So you can spend more to drive a BMW that loses to Chevys?

What Chevys? The only ones on the market now that can beat the 135 are the Vettes and they cost more.

I love GM. I race a Chevy. But there is nothing in the 135's size that is RWD and can touch it in performance for under 50 grand.

If only the Cobalt SS Turbo was RWD, but it isn’t so I’m buying a BMW 135i.

I was pushing the lower weight number because that is one of the things I think there going to have to do to get the mpg the feds are mandating. Building cars the way we do today they can't hit that number, but that is something else that has to change. They are going to have to use more aluminum, carbon and other ways to loose weight.

I also think that the days of V8s with cam(s) are numbered. Electro-magnetic actuated cylinder valves would allow engines to run at max efficiently at part throttle, but still give max power at full throttle.

Lets face it, the eco freaks and the morons in Washington are making cars more expensive.

I'm not sure how well this will go over, but I have recently fallen in love with the new BMW 135i. I think something in the size of the 1 series or 3 series would be perfect for the 6th gen Camaro. A 3000 lb coupe with a 4 cylinder hybrid for the base car, DOD V6 turbo for the Z28 and a electro actuated valve DOD V8 for the SS.

I want to see a 1LE version with the option of having AC.

GM officials said they won't pull or change the ad. It's "a story of GM's commitment to quality It is not intended to offend anyone," spokeswoman Ryndee Carney said.

It's about time some one stood up to these pansy goody-goody groups. GM should have done that with the "kids drive vettes" commercial.

I think I'll keep my '04 VUE Redline, even with the crap seats and the cheap interior. I just don't care for the new VUE, specially not the Redline.

I'll just keep my 04 VUE Redline.

Looser!

Hybrids may make good daily drivers or commuter cars, but they'll make for poor sports cars. It puts down good performance once, but how long will the batteries last when you take it to a track or to a twisty back road. Once you've used all of the battery it'll fall on it's face.

No one buys a sports car to environmentally friendly or to same money on gas. If you want that, buy a Prius and park it in the garage next to a Z06.

It gets 250 miles per charge cursing, what kind of mileage will it get when it's driven like a sports car in the twisties. And it'll be a waist for a track car. I bet it's charge wouldn't last half a day and you'll still need a trailer and a gas guzzling tow vehicle to haul it to the track and back.

I'll keep my big V8.

This could be a good thing, forcing them to advertise smarter, not just more.

lol it looks like it's out of star trek

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Or out of an anime title like Ghost in the Shell. I like it. :)

Imagine having that as a tow vehicle to the race track.

At least they didn't put the truck grill on it. I would have preferred a 'Cuda, it's a way better name with a better reputation. I hope some smart company out there makes a new nose and tail kit to create a "new" 'Cuda.

I don't know German law, but in the US he wouldn't stand a change. In the 90's a Blues artist tried to sue ZZ-Top for the song "La Grange" because it 'sounded like' the songs that he wrote. He lost.

That's a beautiful Camaro in that sig.

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Thanks. :)

Oh I have been around. And totally for the Solstice (and the coupe) and the Nomad.

I just pointed out some very true drawbacks to AWD. Whats the postives?

Okay good traction in poor weather.

I have driven RWD Camaros in very nasty winter weather. No accidents. If its super bad and I could not get out----better to stay at home anyhow

Good 60ft times for drag racing....yes but murder on your car. Learn how to launch a rwd or fwd car----takes some skill.

It will be slower from a roll at any speed. More mass to over come and more driveline loss of hp.

I just don't get how people take to the latest craze.
Lamborghinis are all AWD now and it makes me sick. They are heavy. And I cannot tell you how many magazines road test one and the clutch is shot.

Thats just my $0.02

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Having ridden in and driven several WRX's, Evo's and various pony cars, I can say that in the dry the AWD cars have a major advantage in accelerating off the line and out of corners. In stock form they do have more problem with under-steer in corners, but this can be overcome with some tuning adjustments and driving style. For the past year in SCCA Solo2, the rally cars have been beating to snot out of the pony cars. So much so that the rally cars are likely to be reclassed at the end of the year.

Whether GM puts AWD in the Cobalt or not, the need to develop a good AWD system, because the system they put in my AWD VUE may be OK in the snow, but sucks any other time with front wheel spin for 1-2 seconds before the rear kicks in.

Come 09 when my VUE is paid off I'll definitely buy one if GM doesn't completely screw it up. I looking for 3200 lbs., V8 power, manual transmission, good handling and the ability to fit very fat tires. I already have a heavily modified 92 Camaro that I've been autocrossing for five years.