derrado

The latest issue of Wheels has an article amongst its Car of the Year feature detailing an accident that occurred during testing. They were testing the new Kluger (Highlander) along a gravel left-hand bend at 100km/h at the Lang Lang testing ground (a bend they use to test high-speed stability, and which they've used with countless other cars). They had two Klugers, both with ESP, one FWD and one AWD.

The FWD was regarded as having dodgy dynamics by all the testers, having "inconsistent steering and ESP all over the place, alternately over intervening, and at other times nowhere to be seen".

The AWD was taken out along this bend and it started drifting, but the ESP didn't intervene. At around 85-95km/h, the Kluger slid into a shallow drain, the driver's side tyres popped off and deflated and the wheel rims dug into the ground. The vehicle then flipped.

The driver was safe due to pre-tensioners and a strong cabin.

Toyota checked the wreck and chalked it up to driver's error, sending a letter (displayed in Wheels) saying as such and that the Wheels test was too subjective and they are welcome to observe a proper international standards lane change compliance test.

ALL the testers agreed the Kluger was more or less rubbish dynamically. Wheels has also noticed ESP difficulties in the Lexus LS, Toyota Aurion (Camry V6) and Lexus RX.

It was the first roll-over in 45 years of Wheels COTY.

Me? I'm innocent I tell you. Pure as fresh fallen snow. :AH-HA_wink:

Yeah, well, if GM Europe can supply a suitable platform/truck to ease the CAFE burden in GMC, I would LOVE to see it.

...oh wait. GM Europe doesn't make any trucks. It only makes vans (in a joint-venture with Renault-Nissan).

Point is, I don't think, even if they were all-powerful, that GM Europe would deny a useful vehicle such as a Crewman to GMNA. That is absurd. Unless they manufactured something similar, which they don't.

PCS, this is all just bizarre innuendo.

Means nothing where it's located, as a matter of fact it's incorporated in Delaware, also means nothing. What matters is, where is the power base? Now that's the question?

Well, the power base certainly isn't Brazil. And this is NA market stuff we're talking about. I don't think anyone other than NA GM management and GM Holden cares if a GMC Crewman is sold in NA.

Yes, GM Brasil probably wants to make sure it has a big market for its trucks but... it's crazy to infer from that some conspiracy to keep Zeta out of the US.

I've seen a few on various car lots, but still have not seen ONE 2008 Malibu on the road yet...

The antagonism, the multiple posts and the use of weak anecdotal evidence has all the markings of a troll. It's really quite irritating to read.

The upcoming Zeta Impala was rumoured to be taking styling cues from the ol' 66 Impala and looking as bold and badass as possible, correct? Well, nothing's stopping that. I will bet that if they take a stretched Epsilon FWD platform and wrap it in really dashing and bold packaging (eg, Chrysler 300 but FWD), they will sell them by the boatload. We have to remember that us enthusiasts are the minority. Why do you think so many people buy Camrys? Everybody will want the newest, biggest thing and if they really take it to the next level with the Impala styling, FWD or RWD, it will sell. It may not be as scintillating a drive with the power going through the front wheels, but it won't be terrible. GM's been making high-performance front-drivers for longer than anyone else.

Only things to worry about:

1) If they're gonna go the FWD route, they better have a few decent, gutsy but fuel-efficient engines. If they release a FWD Impala with a 5.3 V8 only, they'll kill that fuel efficiency cred they had going on.

2) The proportions. RWD does equal better proportions.

3) Handling. With FWD, handling isn't gonna be great, especially when this rumoured FWD Impala will be a big'un.

I think if they're gonna go ahead and make a FWD Impala, it's gonna look a helluva lot different to the Malibu. They will make it bold. And it will sell.

There was scuttlebutt about the Impala becoming somewhat of a niche vehicle, to go up against the Chrysler 300 and offer the same type of brash styling. Then, we heard how successful the Impala was becoming, seeing sales increases even in slow times in the market. We then heard about Chevy offering a stretched version of the Malibu to cater for those "lost" Impala buyers who wouldn't buy a higher-priced, lower-volume replacement Impala. That's what I imagine will happen. Chevrolet will channel the ol' 60's Impalas and use that type of brash American styling to make somewhat of a halo model for the passenger car range and kinda sock it to the bland Avalon, Taurus and such. The Impala drivers who like the current Impala's place in life will just leave to the Malibu (which is much bigger than it was) or go to this theoretical stretched version.

The interior has got some SRT touches, I suppose, but one thing that really irks me is that empty cavity in the dash. That just irritates me, it's pointless and oh-so cheap looking. My mom's Daewoo has got a similar cavity, and that doesn't really speak volumes about quality.

However, on a different note... who cares about the interior?! Holy crap, that Caliber probably goes like stink. And I love the exterior, they've really amped up the aggression. I'd love to take one for a spin.

There is at least 1 error in the above chart (prolly more):

CAMRY 41,514 41,892 3.2

378 less units vs. '06 is a -0.009% change, not a +3.2% change. I guess rounding up as above the percent change would be 0.0%

scion is really imploding! And in the face of heightened economy focus- what's happening, and how can I personally contribute to hastening it? :wink:

Wouldn't that be because the 2007 xA and xB are being discontinued to make way for the '08 xB and xD? Or weren't they not doing '07 models of them?

So one guy that wants a bigger V6 with a manual transmission.....and might buy one used down the road? No offense, but I think that's why Chrysler didn't target you as a potential customer.

Pretty sure I didn't say anything at all about targeted consumers. Don't be so curt.

Maybe because of traditional Chrysler Corp woes? Also, the mid-size segment is a lot more competitive and dominated (eg Camry, Accord, Altima) than in Australia, where it's a tumultous segment with no clear winner in sales.

Over here, the Sebring offers something different than over there. If they just sold it with a manual and the bigger V6 here, I would be looking at getting one used down the track. The individual styling, huge features list (they have really loaded it up over here!) and such would help overcome the traditional CC woes.

They both represent two entirely different groups of cars. The Regency represents the big, bechromed, floaty American luxobarge, but it isn't the best example. Honestly, I think you would have a lot more fun driving an Intrigue daily than a Regency. Besides, that Intrigue looks nice and tidy, and it was one of the better GM mid-sizers in recent history so it isn't a crappy car. Love the colour, too. Very contemporary.

The Regency.... meh. If we were talking, say, a big DeVille, I would be less unanimous in my decision. But it's a Regency and, nice as it is, it's a bit dull and that is not what you want in that type of car.

Carpoint is Australia's best motoring website (Drive is pandering rubbish), and their reviews are always very, very fair and balanced. They're never as pretentious and arrogant as British reviews, biased and poorly-written as Motor Trend reviews, or dull and boring like all other American reviews (don't believe me? Pick up an issue of Top Gear mag and CAR and read them back-to-back with MT and C&D)

They just reviewed the '07 Sebring Convertible, which goes on sale here in a few months. Although things are looking bad for Chrysler and their products have appeared to fail terribly, perhaps we have been wrong? The ultra-touchy Brits haven't moaned too much about the new Chrysler/Dodge/Jeeps, and I've read good or at least average assessments on the new Compass (good at everything except interior quality and low-end grunt), Sebring (needs some softer plastics, more powerful engine). The Avenger allegedly has terrible, floaty handling but I read that in a British mag and the Nitro doesnt' receive much critiquing because it offers a very unique package. The Caliber is seen as mediocre, and it is amplified by the great competition it has.

I'm not sure what to think of the newest Chrysler Group offerings. I intend to check out the big Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge dealer in town in the next few weeks, just to get some first impressions. At the very, very least, these new cars are mediocre.

Carpoint's 2007 Sebring Convertible review:

http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/2720950.aspx

I don't understand you guys. The Grand Vitara is about the only mini-ute I would seriously consider for myself - it's the only one with a real body-on-frame structure, which means you could potentially take it somewhere that actually counts as off-road. That, and you can get it with a stick, which is always a plus. (Also, I'm partial to the engine - it's a 2.7-liter derivative of the same fine KL-series V6 that powers my current Mazda 626.)

My dad just bought a Honda Element, which is an absolutely perfect update of the Volkswagen Bus concept (roomy, easy-to-drive and supremely economical) - haven't taken it off-road, though, so we'll see about that yet.

As for the rest: The Torrent/Equinox still strike me as cheap, the RAV4 is now way overblown from its original concept (remember the first one in '96?), the Tucson/Sportage are boring as hell, the CR-V is even uglier than before (if that's possible), the Escape/Mariner/Tribute are incredibly old, the Nitro is a badly-designed piece of crap, I'll wait for the new Liberty, the Outlander is at least quick but has the unfortunate problem of being a Mitsubishi, and the Forester is barely more than a car.

And no, I'm not a big sport-ute fan. Why do you ask?

Trouble is, if you're not the off-roading type, the Grand Vitara falls flat. Sure, it's reasonably attractive and affordable, but it's also more unrefined than most, lacks brand equity, has a so-so interior and a big ugly tyre on the back (which I can somewhat tolerate on the RAV4 as it is vastly better in other areas). Besides, how many Suzuki dealers are around?

The Equinox strikes me as just a metal-for-your-money deal and a bit too 90's GM for my taste. The only reason the Torrent graces my good books is because I am a bit of a Pontiac fan and it is the most attractive cute ute out there.

The RAV4 may be much larger and different in concept to its predecessors but it looks great inside and out, has all the usual Toyota perks, a powerful V6 and is well-suited to either a family or a single person. The Outlander, I agree, is unfortunate in that it is a Mitsubishi, but alas it is quite a good car. Resale values and a cheapish interior are the only downsides I can see, and it is almost attractive as a Torrent.

The CR-V is a lot more... friendly than its predecessors and I am warming to its styling but it is terrible value. And the Escape/Mariner/Tribute triplets are pretty damn uncompetitive and I wouldn't recommend any of them bar the Hybrid variants. The Mariner, though, is pretty stylish and I suppose my vanity says I wouldn't mind it.

Damn. I feel like revising my choices. Push the Equinox and Compass up and drop the Tribute down. Done.

[2007]

1. Aura

2. Altima

3. Legacy

4. Fusion

5. Mazda6

6. Camry

7. Accord

8. G6

9. Optima

10. Milan

11. Avenger

12. Galant

13. Sebring

14. Sonata

15. Grand Prix

16. LaCrosse

17. Malibu

[2007]

1. Mazda3

2. Civic

3. Rabbit

4. Lancer

5. HHR

6. Impreza

7. Focus

8. Cobalt

9. Sentra

10. Elantra

11. Vibe

12. Matrix

13. Caliber

14. PT Cruiser

15. SX4

16. Forenza/Reno

17. Corolla

18. Spectra

19= Aerio

19= Ion

[excluding tweeners like the CX-7, plus luxury compact SUVs and hybrids]

1. RAV4 (as much as it pains me to admit it)

2. Outlander

3. Vue

4. CR-V

5. Torrent (best looking compact SUV out there, pushes it into the top 5)

6. Mariner (even though it is a "Woman's Escape")

7. Tribute

8. Compass (would get a bit of a boost if it had a decent interior)

9. Tucson

10. Sportage

11. Equinox

12. Escape

13. Grand Vitara

Okay, before you read this hold your breath. Then, relax and breath easily. This is a radical yet possible idea to rebuild Pontiac and Buick. Remember that these are just ideas and reflect little in fact.

Pontiac and Buick will both see major reform but, Pontiac will be altered significantly. Pontiac will be a youth niche brand in the mold of Scion. Buick will be the second broadest brand behind Chevrolet in the model of Toyota. GMC would target Toyota trucks. Here's how it could go down if this were to happen.

2007 will be the last year for the Buick Rainier, Rendevous, and Terraza and the Pontiac Vibe.

2008 will be the last year for the G6, Grand Prix, and LaCrosse and will be the final year for the front drive Lucerne until it goes on Zeta for 2009. The Torrent prepares to be renewed with an all-new model for 2009.

Now onto new or updated models.

2007 is the first year of production for the Pontiac G5. This car appears to be a good albeit less flashy alternative to the Scion tC. Despite its simple badge-job status, it is a great car and it will do well.

2008 will be a year of change for these brands. Buick will get an all-new compact based on the all-new Toyota Corolla and will be called the Buick Excelle. Buick will get the all-new Enclave crossover the price will start around $31k.

2009 will be a banner year with tremdous changes in this channel.

-Pontiac will get a new Torrent that is based on the Saturn Vue SWB Theta.

-Pontiac will get an all-new updated version of the G5 via a Cobalt update, expect a better differentiation between the Cobalt and the G5.

-The Opel Corsa is imported as the Pontiac G2 3-door & 5-door and will target the Scion xA & the Toyota Yaris hatchback.

Buick will be dramatically different for 2009.

-First, the Lucerne will go on the RWD Zeta platform. The 3.6L V-6 models will take on the Toyota Avalon while the V-8 GS model will take on the Chrysler 300 SRT8.

-The Buick Allure will be based on the same updated Epsilon platform as the Malibu & Aura. The Allure will have be modeled after the Camry and Solara similar to how the 2008 Malibu followed the Sonata.

-The Buick Siginia is a Buick version of the LWB Theta platform and is modeled after the Toyota Highlander.

This is Pontiac in 2009.

G2 3dr/5dr hatchback

1.4L 108hp I-4

SE $12k GT $13k SLE $14k

G5 coupe

2.4L 180hp I-4

SE $16k GT $17k SLE $18k

Vibe wagon

1.8L 146hp I-4

SE $16k GT $17k SLE $18k

Torrent compact crossover

2.4L 180hp I-4

3.6L 275hp V-6

SE $20k GT $22k SLE $24k

SE V-6 $24k GT V-6 $26k SLE $28k

This is Buick in 2009.

Excelle sedan

1.8L 146hp I-4

CX $16k CXS $17k CXL $18k

Allure sedan/coupe/convert.

2.4L 180hp I-4

3.6L 275hp V-6

CX $20k CXS $22k CXL $24k

CX V-6 $24k CXS V-6 $26k CXL V-6 $28k

Lucerne sedan

3.6L 275hp V-6

6.0L 430hp V-8

CX $28k CXS $32k CXL $36k GS $40k

Signia midsize crossover

2.4L 180hp I-4

3.6L 275hp V-6

CX $24k CXS $26k CXL $28kk

CX V-6$28k CXS V-6$30k CXL V-6 $32k

Enclave full-size crossover

3.6L 275hp V-6

CX $32k CXS $35k CXL $38k

So, if you can get past the death of the G6,Vibe, Grand Prix, and GTO and these brands could be transformed into a serious challege to Toyota. Chevrolet will still retain its traditional role as GM's volume brand and it will easily outsell PBG. However, the more sophisticated buyers that default to Toyota will only be dragged away by sophisticated Buicks not Chevys.

I see Gen-Xers being attracted to Saturn. I see Pontiac attracting Gen-Yers. I see Buick/GMC attract back boomers to GM. Finally, Chevy and Cadillac/Hummer will both attract a broad spectrum of buyers.

Well, then again I could be totally wrong.

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No offence intended, but I hate the idea. You're suggesting moving both brands downmarket, and making them less like the niche players GM is making them. Buick is near-luxury, as evidenced by the new Enclave and to a lesser extent, LaCrosse and Lucerne. Pontiac is sporty, as evidenced by GTO, forthcoming G8, and GM's plans to make it RWD-only.

It's much easier to convert them into near-luxury and cut-price Beemer, respectively, than to make them into some kind of Scion-beater and Honda (?) rival.

That Falcon does nothing... but reinforce my belief that Australians love "beige" cars... the spanking new, mechanically sparkling Holdens have the same problem.  Please don't let them bring them here unless they are reskinned with a pulse.

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Uh huh, and what are the two best-selling cars in the USA? The Camry and Accord.

Who loves 'beige' cars now? At least we have some more sporting variants, V8 and RWD. Oh, and show me one exciting car in your Top 10 Best-Sellers, besides the Mustang (is it even in the Top 10?)

I think the Ion has picked up some sales because of all the attention suddenly on the Saturn brand. The Sky is acting as somewhat of a halo-car and is probably helping shift some Ions.

And regarding the Impala, it's amazing what a nice interior and a smoothed-out look can do..