MisterMe

Not to be the skunk at the picnic, but bringing a Ute to North America is an incredibly dumb idea. American's like trucks. If the truck has a crew cab and all-wheel drive, the better. It is not like Americans don't know what a ute is. The Chevrolet El Camino and the Ford Ranchero drove the American highway system for decades. They were marketed to people who needed utility, but did not want a drive something with the stigma of a farm or work vehicle.

Today, the world is upside down. Trucks today are cool. The bigger, the badder, the better. The most popular vehicle in the USA is the F-150 pickup truck. The Chevrolet Silverado is one of Chevrolet's top sellers.

It is interesting that to date, Ford has not seen fit to revive the Ranchero. Chevrolet has not seen fit to revive the El Camino. No major Japanese manufacturer, not Toyota, not Nissan, not Honda, not Mitsubishi has seen fit to jump into the ute business. The Koreans, the Germans, and the Italians have all chosen to stay on the sidelines.

Do ute fans know something that all of these manufacturers don't know? Its possible, but I don't think so.

1. How many new Pontiacs have you purchased (or leased) in the last decade (since the '98 model year)?

2. Do you intend to purchase/lease another new Pontiac in the next two model years?

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1. Two--2002 Grand Prix 4DR Sedan, 2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp-G
2. Yes--Either G8 GT or G6 GT or GXP (Decision will be based on the price of fuel.)

... That Ute certainly looks promising, so does the wagon.

The wagon has the same wheels as the LWB Mid-Eastern Chevy.

I would surmise the black Commodore is a mule for the G8 GXP.

Sometimes a Commodore is just a Commodore.

... The orange KILLS whatever sophistication the design had in the first place and those wheels are atrocious. I kept thinking I'd seen them before and then I remembered. The Ion has a similar design with the lego block center cap.

The G8, so far, seems to be about as exciting as shredded wheat. I certainly hope I'm in the minority because I want the car and Pontiac to succeed. ...

I must say that I agree with you. I have bought only Pontiacs since 1978. It is about time to replace my 2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp-G. I want my next car to be a Pontiac. However, this rebadged Holden does not speak to me. Still, I may get one, but only as a transition to its Canadian-built successor.

But once again..what makes a Buick a Buick and a Pontiac a Pontiac? Plastic cladding? ....

What is your fixation with the past? The Pontiac Grand Am abandoned cladding in the early 21st Century. The Grand Prix abandoned it in 2003 with the 2004 model year. The G6 never had cladding. No current Buick passenger car has cladding. Doesn't it get tiring to constantly try to push the "cladding" rope?

So this is going to be another great car that is only sold in China? ...

The Holden Stateman reengineered as a Chinese Buick Avenue is not a great car just because it is not manufactured in North America.

Either I need to move to China or figure a way to get these imported.

No, you don't need to move to China. You probably wouldn't like it there anyway. Neither do you need to import the Park Avenue. Your local Buick dealer already has some wonderful models with more on the way.

I will not understand why GM has these dynamically excellent automobiles and wont sell them here. Granted there are some styling tweeks that must be made to sell in North America but still that shouldnt be a challange for a company with so many engineering resources.

Your local Buick dealer has the LaCrosse and Lucerne. These cars are among the most reliable on the road; they get great fuel mileage; and they are great to drive and ride. Buick in North America is on a roll with a product plan to develop some really wonderful cars that are distinctively North American Buick. Buick in China is taking similar care in giving its Buick design language a distinctive Chinese accent. There is no need for Buick to mix Chinese-market models with North American-market models in the same showroom. The discordant mixture of design themes would be counterproductive to the good work that Buick has done lately.

In today's Automotive News, there is a story that the new MPG laws [34MPG CAFE] have stopped the "all RWD line up" plans.

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What "all RWD lineup"? I don't recall reading that anywhere. I recall Lutz saying something quite contrary to this. To the best of my knowledge, the "all RWD lineup" was a fanboy's fantasy.

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P.s. I was very disappointed with the Yukon XL. I sat in the passenger seat of one during the show, and my head hit the roof! It had even less headroom than my Cobalt, even with the adjustable seat all the way down! I mean, this Yukon had a sunroof and my Cobalt doesn't, but still, what gives?!?!

When you are able to buy one, you get to sit in the Yukon XL's driver's seat and adjust it to fit. Second, sunroofs cut headroom, they don't increase it.

.... I heard the GP production stops in Dec, '07.

Bob Lutz said otherwise. Go back and watch his interview at the Chicago Auto Show. He said that the G8 will eventually replace the Grand Prix, but that Pontiac will sell the two cars side-by-side for the foreseeable future.

I hope the G8 sells like hot-cakes and they need to make 50,000 of them a year, ...

30,000 hotcakes or even 50,000 hotcakes are not a lot of hotcakes.

Sorry I get Lexus and Infinity crossed up once in a while. I try to remember Lexus is the one with a 4 seat 350 Z based car. ...

Sorry, but you missed again. The Nissan 350 Z-based four-seater is an Infiniti, not a Lexus.

Contrary to earlier speculation, the Grand Prix is going nowhere for quite awhile yet. This according to Bob Lutz. It appears that Pontiac will continue to rely on the Grand Prix and G6 for its bread and butter. The G8 appears to be an experiment, the purpose of which Lutz is not sharing with us.

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I dunno why, but I find Pontiac's interiors almost sado-masochistic. It's like the passenger has to ASK the driver to turn down their vent's temperature; and as punishment, the driver will instead turn it up full blast and the passenger gets blistering heat from like 20 vents facing them.

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I love driver-oriented instrument panels. I hate it when some dweeb changes the settings in my car without my permission while I am driving. Perhaps when you are old enough to drive a car of your own, you appreciate driver-oriented controls as well.

Is there any possibility of producing a Police Package for the new G8?? anyone care to do a chop of what a police package G8 would look like?? this would make a sweet police cruiser..

This is a very bad idea. General Motors has a serious effort to reduce its fleet sales. Police cars are sold to fleets. Worse than that, they are sold by the lowest bidder. It is not at all uncommon for police cars to sell in the $12K price range, which often means that they sell at a loss. Bad, bad, bad.

As i was driving past my local BPGMC dealership, i glanced in the showroom and saw a car covered in a white sheet. I was excited, and pulled in to take a closer look, the dealership was closed, but here are the pics i took...

It is sort of obvious that the covered car is a high-content G8.

American automotive manufacturers did not use FI prior to 1957, when Pontiac & Chevrolet introduced their systems (Chrysler/ Dodge/ DeSoto/ Plymouth intro'd FI in '58). That would not be "decades" before the '60s by my calculator.

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You are correct about the date when GM introduced fuel injection in passenger cars. However, 1957 is just two years after 1955 when Mercedez-Benz introduced the first commercial FI system on the 300SL. Two years is hardly long enough for FI to be considered a signature feature of European cars.

You had better take a better look at your Pontiac history before you get to cocky.

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You are mixing eras. The original Grand Am was a (two-door or four-door) LeMans on a performance chassis with a Grand Prix interior. It was introduced in 1973, IIRC. The first STE was the Pontiac 6000 STE which was introduced in the 1980's some twenty years after the era you claim. By the time that I could afford a 6000, the STE was no longer available. However, I did buy and own a 1992 Grand Prix STE as soon as it became available. I owned my GP STE until 1997.

At any rate, you are throwing in things like fuel injection to support your assertion that GM had a fascination with European cars. Well, fuel injection is just a fuel delivery system. Theoretically, it has always had the potential to deliver fuel more efficiently and extract more power from an engine than a carburetor. However, fuel injection systems had reliability issues until the advent of digital systems. American manufacturers have used fuel injection for decades prior to the 1960's.

I suppose that you will next claim that the handbrake is "European."

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GM has tried to sell Pontiac as the Euro sedan clean back to the late 60's. The 73-74 Grand Am was compared to Euro models and it is funny today to read those articals. They now have a true Euro like affordable sedan that can compete in its own price range and best the cars like a Charger that is anything but Euro like.

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That would be a big fat "What are you talking about, Willis?" During the 1960's, the only European cars that most Americans knew anything about were Volkswagens. This was the heyday of big American iron. Americans did not discover the European sports sedan until 1975 when Ford introduced the Ford Granada and its Mercury twin, which looked like a Mercedez-Benz design exercise and Chevrolet reskinned the Nova to make it look more like a BMW. GM also spread the Nova across its divisions with Omega (Oldsmobile), Ventura (from Pontiac already), and the Apollo (Buick). Based a stretched Nova chassis, the Cadillac Seville was part of GM's response to America's newfound fascination with European cars.

Pay attention now. A V6 Grand Prix is $22430 (including D+H)? Fine, that's only $530 less than a V6 G6. Want more power? A supercharged Grand Prix will set you back $25,350, but a 3.6 L G6 will cost you $25,230. Pretty close huh?. I imagine that if they stuck a V8 in the G6 it would cost—at least as much as the Grand Prix GXP. Looks like the G6 replaces the Grand Prix to me.

I gave you the source of my prices. What is the source of yours?

Unless pricing is very different in the US, the Grand Prix has already been replaced by the G6. ... the Grand Prix price-wise. The G8 will replace the Bonneville.

If price is your only consideration, then the G6 with a base MSRP of $17,825 comes in a more than $4000 lower in the pecking order than the Grand Prix whose base MSRP is $21,990. There are, however, multiple axes of class in the US. Price is only one axis. Size is another. The G6 is supposed to be Generation 6 of the Pontiac Grand Am. The G6 replaced the Grand Am and nothing else. The G8 is larger than the Grand Prix. It will replace the Grand Prix and simultaneously fill the slot vacated by the Bonneville.

... Lucerne comes in at mid-20s and that's a Buick.

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The bottom-of-the-line Lucerne CX comes in at $26,410 base MSRP. The fact that it is a Buick should not have that much of an impact on the price. Admittedly, you cannot estimate the price of the G8 based on the glimpse shown in that ABC News video. However, I will do it anyway. It seems that some fans here expect GM to sell the car at a loss. I don't. Based on the quality of paint and the design of the wheels, this car has to be more expensive than my 2004 Grand Prix Comp-G. This will put it well above $30 K. I see few prospective buyers for this car downmarket of the current Grand Prix GXP, which comes in at $29,430 base MSRP. The sweet spot probably comes in at $35 K or so. GM can hold down costs by offering a few relatively well-equipped content levels. This might knock a few hundred off the price. But, the G8 priced under $30 K is not likely.

Selling the Escalade and the Hummer in Europe is downright stupid, even if they did have diesels. Selling the SRX there is only marginally less so.

It's not stupid, it is a marketing choice. Clearly if Cadillac wanted to sell diesels, it could have. GM would be foolish to go onto Mercedes-Benz/BMW ground with the intention of beating those guys at their own game. Instead, GM has chosen to concentrate its efforts on providing Europeans with the American luxury experience. The mass market does not want this, but many Europeans do. Time will tell if there are enough Europeans who want America's version of luxury to make the venture successful.

I scanned through this thread and didn't see this point mentioned, but I thought originally the proposed G8 was to replace the Bonneville, not the Gran Prix. ...

You are right and wrong. The G8 is supposed to replace both the Grand Prix and the Bonneville in somewhat the same way that the Buick Lucerne replaced both the LeSabre and the Park Avenue.

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I think that any 'controversy' stems from that a lot of people on here are so used to Pontiac building overstyled FWD sedans and the idea of a modern, RWD V8 sports sedan with understated styling branded as a Pontiac is something they can't grasp...

One of the reasons that the Commodore will be shipped to NA is because its production lines will be shut down otherwise. It seems that the Aussies are not buying Holdens as they did in the past. They are buying Japanese brands Down Under just like we are in North America. Do you have an equally insulting explanation for our Australian friends' buying preferences?

The Commodore is a prettty sharp looking car and the interior puts any current Pontiac to shame. Although it is not as aggressive looking as I would like, I could definatley see myself in this car down the road. It is lightyears ahead of the current gaudy and outdated Grand Prix.

You understand that the picture embedded in your post is of a model that went out of production in early 2003, don't you?

Interesting that the quote says Commodore SS = G8, which means V8 only.

EDIT (food for thought): Would it make sense to send a cheaper V6 version to the US as the NG G6?

The G started with the Pontiac G6, which was Generation 6 of the Grand Am. It then morphed into a size designation with the G5 as a new Pontiac-version of the Cobalt, a smaller car than the G6. The G3 is a Pontiac version of the Chevy Aveo and smaller than the G5. The Matiz G2 is smaller still. The G8 will be larger than the G6. Could it also be Generation 8 of the Grand Prix? Long story short: The number following the G has nothing to do with the number of cylinders in the engine.