geozinger

Greetings all,

It's been a while since I've logged in, but I like the changes that have been made. But, with an Olds fan in charge, what else could happen?

Bonne Chance!

Looks too asian...

It really has become a sad day in the auto industry. Every sedan looks the same and because the asians are supposedly "the standard" the sedans all look like $h!. No originality or anything, it even has that ugly cropped rear that the new puke-tacular Altima has.... Maybe it'll have the horrible cut lines as well or the same 'fat arm' syndrome that the front of the Altima (front fenders) suffers from.

That is the funniest thing I have read in the last week! How true!

I don't post a lot here, I do mostly reading. This deserves a response.

This needs to be in the market. $1,000 (USD) is nothing compared to the hybrids markup. With its fuel economy it would pay it self quickly.

That's is an excellent observation about the hybrid premium.

Maybe if you get enough Saturn diesel owners, they can get their friends in government to allow them to clog up the car pool lanes and get mucho tax breaks too... (j/k)

Would a CTS diesel get you into a GM showroom to look at a car you would have otherwise not have considered?

My household fleet consists of a Civic and an Accord, so most of my time is spent over at vtec.net. The talk of the town over there is whether the 08 accord will have a diesel option in the us, which it almost certainly will not. But the level of interest is so great. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would make thier way to a GM dealership to test drive a CTS diesel.

Sooner or later someone (besides volkswagen) will start selling diesels here, maybe for a loss at first, but then for a tidy profit and marketshare gain as reputation and consumer knowledge builds... or maybe as gas prices rise.

GM was building diesels for Honda Europe as little as two years ago. There is no reason they don't have the expertise to do this. The perception of a lot of car buyers, probably not the reality, is that GM isn't even trying... while Honda and Toyota are working overtime to develop hybrid/hydrogen/clean diesel technology. I think the goodwill of GM being first to market with some clean diesel technology would be worth a small loss on a fraction of their cars.

My company partners with another company (that sounds so... lame!) and one of their salesmen drives a VW Golf TDI. He had been buying Buick Centurys and Regals before that (particularly the ones with the 3. but since he drives about 60K miles a year, he would wear them out in 3-4 years. He specifically wanted a diesel car, but didn't like the Mercedes being offered at the time. It wasn't like he couldn't afford it, he just didn't like them.

Plus, it helps when the salesguy shows up in a less expensive car... I know the way I feel when the printing equipment guy shows up in a Chevy or a Mercedes... I'm more inclined to work with the guy with the less expensive car, whether or not it's rational.

Back to the VW. I was not initially impressed as I remember even the VW diesels from 20+ years ago as noisy and stinky (along with all of the other hardware at the time). But he let me drive the little bugger, and I have to say, in normal driving you would not have known the difference. I guess I should point out that it was a TDI and 6-speed, and at first I thought he was pulling my leg, I really thought there was a VR6 under the hood. Until we stopped in a parking lot and he raised the hood...

Ever since then, I've been a closet diesel fan. I would have like to have had one in our current Malibu Maxx, as my wife drives it abouth 40 miles a day. As it is we only use about a gallon and half of gasoline, but with a TDI type of car, it would be (slightly) less than a gallon...

Not much in a day, but after a week, a month, a year - it adds up.

I would like a CTS diesel as described in the article so that I could have a great looking, great performing car that could run completely on BioDiesel.

Advantages:

1. greater range; I assume they wouldn't change the fuel tank, they almost never do. I can get 360miles out of a tank on the CTS now. 700-800 miles to a tank would be awesome!

2. Not burning fossil fuels; biodiesel doesn't release any new carbon into the atmosphere. My vehicle becomes as close to carbon neutral as one can get.

3. Not burning foreign oil; My partner and 2 of this brothers already served in the middle east. I don't want them to have to return.

4. Longevity of the engine; diesels require a fuel filter change every 50k miles or so and are known to last hundreds of thousands of miles. Fuel filter change costs about as much as an oil change. Hybrids require a battery change every 100k miles or so. Costs = about $2,000. How many 300k mile Pruises are there out there? $6000 in battery changes to do 300k miles? No thanks.

Hey Oldsmoboi,

I'm with you 1000% on the diesel thing, (just make mine a Malibu)(or a Volt). I would say that the jury is out on the actual reliability of the existing hybrid fleet (Toyota and others), only time will TRULY tell. But I hate giving the Prius Anti-Defamation League trolls any kind of ammunition.

Not that they would change my mind, but now we'll have to endure ALL of the "I've got 600,000 miles on my Prius and I didn't need to change my battery" kinds of posts. Outside of the "gee-whiz' factor, the current hybrids leave me a little unimpressed. It seems like a lot of extra components to get a highly disputed mileage result that could be fairly easily obtained with: Clean diesel, or a BAS system or even doing incredibly easy things like keeping your tires inflated and no jack-rabbit starts from traffic signals and all of the other normal conservation methods.

I get sooo tired of that kind of thing... especially on a GM board... I mean really, do the folks on GM board spend THAT much time on Toyota Nation and the like?

People on this thread have had some good comments about diesel, and I'd like to add mine.

FWIW, if GM were to bring that diesel here, I would hope it would land in the Epsilon chassis. I would REALLY hope that there would be a relatively inexpensive Chevy version (cough Malibu cough), but I could see it in a Pontiac as an alternative high performance car, or in a Caddy as a true luxury car.

If it does come to pass, GM would have the most extensive and potentially green mid-size car lineup ever. Think about it, you will be able to get: Ecotec/6spd, 3.6HF/6spd, BAS Ecotec mild-Hybrid, and then the 2.9 diesel... Add a 3.5 or 3.9 OHC with E85 capability (+6 speed) and it WOULD be the most green/best performing GM line up ever...

Not to mention the VOLT!

It gives this current GM customer much hope, really.

Funny thing- I hated this car when it first came out-but now I've grown to like them-as now I've driven one.

Handles quite well.

I can understand why Az owners love em......

If only about 25,000 more people per year (when it was in production) would have made the same discovery...

Oh well.

Build it GM!

Oops, now that I said that out loud, I may have to actually buy one.

If it's big enough (like the size of my Maxx), then it should be a no brainer...

There was, in concept form. It was powered by a 175hp version of the Ecotec and looked similar to the Intrigue 442...


Of course, there was the OSV Alero with the 3.5l Shortstar generating 245hp...

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Yeah, if after looking at that OSV Alero you don't feel a pang of desire...

... you are NOT a motorhead!

:P

thanks for reminding me of those.

Between my wife and I we have owned several Oldsmobiles, most notably my '72 442 which is one of my favorites of all of the cars I've owned. Several years ago we went to a car show to check out the then-current Intrigues when my wife fell in love with a Pontiac Aztek. We haven't had an Olds grace our driveway since then, and now, no new ones. Bummer. (Although the little Sunfire GT I have now has a Quad 4 in it. Olds power lives on!) I've often thought there should have been a '442' type of package applied to the Alero, as it has the best looking coupe styling applied to the N body. It would have been just a great package. If anyone else remembers, the Alero had (for a short time in MY 2000) the 5 speed manual tranny as an option behind the 3.4 V6. That's when I started dreaming about a new 442 based on the Alero, but alas, I'm in the wrong business to dream those dreams. Farewell Oldsmobile, it was great to know you... :thumbsup:

this seems to be the general perception of owners. thanks for the review. there really is no car in the GM lineup, or in the rest of US brands' lineups that I can think of right now, short of a cheap minivan, that could come close to the Tek's combination of utility, efficiency, and value. Of course the value part was never intended to get as outrageous as it did, no one wants a vehicle to be as heavily discounted and universally disliked as the Aztek. Theta doesn't come close because of size [though the XL-7 comes the closest, I don't think it's as wide as the Aztek], Lambdas are too long, and too expensive. GMT 360's are trucks....so there really is no tall station wagon thingy that is inexpensive and as spacious as the Aztek was.

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Hi Turbo200 & regfootball,

I guess I could add that we chose the Malibu Maxx since there was no direct replacement for the Az. Yes, we looked at a 'nox/Torrent, too big for the same interior space. Our in-laws ended up getting a Rendezvous after having driven our Aztek, too.

You are correct in saying there is nothing in the NA lineup that directly replaces the Az, which I think is a shame. It was sort of an underground cult car, and having one put you in little subversive club, that really didn't care what other people thought of your ride. It sounds weird, but I miss the bugger...

We had a 2001 Aztek 1SA 2WD with everything but the HUD. Our next car after that was a 2004 Aztek Rally 1SB 2WD with the towing pkg and the sunroof (the only way we could get it in August 2003, better equipped ones came later in the year).

Initially, we had gone to the local car show to find a viable replacement for our POS Mercury Topaz. We had two kids in elementary school and made trips home (to NE Ohio) to see grandparents, etc. pretty frequently. I wanted an Intrigue as we had driven my in-laws and found it to be an excellent Interstate hauler. My other choice was a Pontiac Grand Prix (GT with 3800) when my wife saw the Aztek.

I have to say, I was not impressed. I had seen the concept car and thought it was pretty far out, but not ugly. We're not 'truck/SUV' people, and that was the reason why the Az appealed to my wife. She didn't want a minivan, but didn't like the Grand Prix, either. This was not a minivan, not a truck and not a Grand Prix.

Two weeks later, we're in the local Pontiac dealership, driving a demo Az in a steady frozen rain storm. That's when it hit me, this was one of the best packaged sedans I have ever been in. The Az was steady in traffic and for a car so tall, I thought it handled well. There was plenty of room for us and our kids, but it was not so big that you couldn't drive/park in downtown areas. Later that day we took home the 01.

Another impression from that time that stands out, was in February of 2001 *no one* had hardly seen an Aztek, even in a big GM town like this one. We couldn't have gotten more looks, leers and stares if we had been naked, driving a hot pink Ferrari convertible sideways down the main drag of the town. I like to drive above the speed limit (slightly) on the Interstates, and this thing was drawing attention from all over. After several conversations with the constabulatory, I learned to back off a little in the blue Az.

In 2003, we saw that Pontiac was going to release a Rally version of the Aztek. My wife wanted one (in Fusion Orange no less) in the worst way, so I agreed (again) and traded in a perfectly good Aztek for a new one. Long story short, I came to find out how good a dealer I had and how incredibly valuable the GM extended warranty really is...

Earlier this year we gave the Aztek back to GM and plopped down money on a 2006 Malibu Maxx which is a better driver than the Azteks were, and roughly the same size and packaging. However, it is NOT as good a hauler as the Aztek was. Plus, it IS invisible in a parking lot, although after having a Fusion Orange Aztek, most anything would be.

To sum up, both of the Azteks we had were loaded-up vehicles which potentially could have been (and the Orange one was) troublesome. But the size, the performance (as someone else pointed out, it's no BMW), the packaging, the fuel economy and the overall feel of the car was great.

Now that some time has passed, I'm thinking there may be a used Aztek gracing my driveway again someday... The prices are cheap(!) and if you get one that is not optioned-out, it should be fairly reliable.

Thanks for reading this incredibly long post. I'll be quiet now.

Wow, I thought my current 'Bu was going to be my last...

I have changed my mind.

Too bad there's no Maxx version, but my kids are almost out of school anyway...