Croc

Look...this is what I'm thinking about when I form my opinions:

The Camaro would undoubtably share the same platform as the next GTO. Both are RWD...the GTO would be built in America or Canada right next to a Camaro. GTO would not be limited at the paltry 18k units per year. Importing cars from Australia would not be feasible due to exchange rates. That was one of the problems of the original Zeta program. Since the Camaro and the GTO will be the same type of car on the same type of platform, the prices cannot differ all that much. GTO I expect will carry a slight premium in this case, since the car's heritage is somewhat different than that of the Camaro. So the Camaro will be cheaper, but not by too much. We know that GM has had issues with cost regarding future RWD programs. With that piece of knowledge, it is fairly safe to assume that GM hasn't found a way to dramatically reduce costs in the last 8 months. Therefore, if GM originally nixed Zeta because the vehicles would have to cost too much, such as a Pontiac G8 costing base 35k, then I think it is safe to assume that the new RWD architecture would reduce the costs to around 30k. Now I said "around" because it could differ 1-2 grand. But 30k is the ballpark figure here because it is a nice even number and seems pretty logical from what we know.

Something else we know: GM needs money. Financial situations at GM are kinda dicey and what with Delphi, the industry is on shaky ground. GM needs profits. One thing we know about profits is that cheap cars do not have as great of profit margins as more expensive cars. GM makes more off of a Cadillac DHS than it does from a Solstice. That's just economics. Therefore, GM is probably going to keep any new Camaro affordable but not a "value" or "deal." GM knows the demand is there, and most enthusiasts will pay whatever GM asks for it as long as it is not too unreasonable. I really honestly believe that 30k is a figure where GM will make a good amount of money, yet most people could still afford it. Maybe 27k.

As for the Mustang comparisons, you have to remember that the Mustang at Ford competes in several classes. It is a cheap convertible that looks good and is fun to drive. GM is taking a more segmented approach. The GTO/Camaro will compete with Mustang on performance like the GTO currently does. Convertible option as well. However, when it comes to a cheap, fun convertible, the Mustang also competes in a way with Solstice, SKY, and Miata. A LOT of teenagers get the Mustang because it is a convertible and cheap. Solstice and Miata fill the same market in that way: the value convertible.

Now, I firmly believe that GM's target market for a new Camaro is going to be primarily male, 25-40, who likes raw power and performance, but also values some handling finesse and basic practicality. The Camaro will not be the primary household vehicle. I think the Camaro will have both a V6 and a V8, but the pricing strategy would place the V6 around 27k and the V8 (and the bulk of the sales) would be closer to 30k and maybe slightly above.

I don't think the Camaro is meant to compete with the base Mustangs...that's really what the G6 convertible (if it ever gets released) will do IMO. The Camaro will be about satisfying the higher end Mustang customers.

This is what I've been thinking...what are your thoughts?

What story of what promise to which boy? I didn't hear about this...

Yea it was an awesome fake... God that game was so intense...I went through a quarter pack during it and a few more right afterwards!

Let's stay away from personal attacks, eh?

As for the logic, no one is speculating on base content, merely saying what they think "should be" in a Camaro. Who knows if GM will do this or not...who cares? That isn't the point.

So you have your faith in a different source. That's fine. But that doesn't make my opinions any less valid because we all know that AH-HA and evok have been the most reliable insiders on this board for the past 4 years. If I wanted to, I could turn things around and accuse you of acting like your opinions are the end all be all because you get your info from Fbodfather. But I really don't care.

Now, why don't you share with us what kind of features you would like in a Camaro, realistically, since that is where this topic has headed. I'm tired of arguing here, and when I brought up "dream Camaro features" that was my subtle hint that I wasn't interested in debating the price anymore.

Have a nice evening.

i grew up in late 80s/early 90s and all i was allowed to watch for the longest time were disney and nickelodeon

You are right, the back seats in the 4th gen were pretty much for emergency use only.  But, with or without those seats folded, the rear area still had plenty of cargo room.  Don't forget about the covered area in the rear of the trunk.  That alone takes care of the usual storage needs, unless the T-tops are off...

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Yes, but GM really needs homerun product after homerun product. Can you imagine if GM had a sport car that actually had a good deal of utility to it as well? My guess is that the flip-and-fold seats aren't too heavy or anything.

Yeah, ND's strategy was to hog the ball, and it ended up being their downfall. Reggie Bush is one hell of a player, and he better win the Heisman. Frankly, Leinert is a bit overrated, and I even noted last season that Bush was the better player IMO because whenever Lienert wasn't at his best, one could count on Bush to pick up the slack and win it. Bush is crazy. He comes out of nowhere and just hustles. The way he hurdles over players is insane and makes for great TV. He is the most exciting player to watch by far. What I wanna know is...was it luck or damn quick thinking on Lienert's part to hurl the ball out with 7 seconds remaining. That's the only reason we won. NBCs commentators were right: this was a chess game. As far as the dynasty ending this year? I'm not too sure about that. We have a lot of talent still, and you never know who we might get for next season. That said, I'm just thinking about this season and another gathering at BW3s to watch another title win ;) BTW Lance, were you there?

I haven't really had the opportunity to do anything yet, but I've had no problem with the few things I have endeavored...I think it's important to do some things yourself because it just makes it YOUR house.

Honestly? I don't hold its interior against it because at least Ford didn't get anyone's hopes up with it. Here's a concept with a very functional, useful, 100% production-ready interior. Doesn't the front remind you of the ovoid Escort's rear?

Excellent idea...

I would actually dig a very basic, utilitarian interior.  Just the necessary gauges, minimal controls for radio and HVAC.  Maybe use an aluminum chassis for the dash with a nice synthetic cover on the upper part (just to cut the glare)?  I don't mind a dash that is hard to the touch, unless it's shiny plastic. 

But when it comes to ABS... that's one option that I would not delete.  Rear window defrost? deleted it on the SS.  Side curtain airbags?  I'll pass.  Traction control?  No thanks.  But ABS is a totally different story.

What else would I like?  A short throw shifter that feels like one (not just shorter throws, but ditch the rubber isolation between the stick and base).  Resolve the issue with the stick shaking while I drive.  Have an option for something similar to the ZL1 suspension package. True dual exhaust.

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I agree with most of what you said. Hell, the corporate radio/HVAC would suffice as long as it is well-integrated.

Here's what GM needs to decide for the Camaro interior: useful rear seats, or no rear seats in lieu of an interior storage area. I think most people would agree the rear was useless in the 4th gen. Frankly, I'd say make it useful for two occupants and have something like the flip and fold Impala has so people COULD carry stuff back there if they wanted.

The airbags are a must, as if they aren't regulation required by its introduction they will be sometime throughout its run. Plus, it would make it safe against SUVs.

I think I speak for everyone when I say that the interior should be BETTER than the current GTO.  Its interior was designed back around 1995.  This car won't be in showrooms till 2008 at the earliest so I hope it is lightyears ahead of that, nothing against the GTO but times change.

I wasn't talking about the design so much as the interior quality. GTO has a very quality interior though I agree the design is a little dated at this point. Still, it's one of the better NA GM interiors.

How about just putting a switch in the car to disable ABS like say putting inside the glove box and have the car warn you when you start it if ABS is off.

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That would work too, but I just think something should be there for the Sixty8 crowd since that IS a market.

As for the V6 and pricing arguments, whatever. We'll see if and when it comes to market. Again, GM will be going for profits and not volume. There's more profits at a 30k performance machine than at a 25k V6 version of a 30k performance machine.

Trojans are the best, whether we're talking about the SoCal variety or the Warm Sensations kind...there's just nothing that comes close to touching...no nothing ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

USC WINS OVER NOTRE DAME ALL IN THE LAST 7 SECONDS!!!!!!!!! ITS A DAMN GOOD DAY TO BE A TROJAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm with Fly. Kappa needs more variants within the current lines, not across divisions.

Get over yourself. My entire point was that a 20k base price was way unrealistic for the reasons I stated, including too much internal competition.

Look at a base price of around 30k. That's what you should be saving up for, if it materializes.

AH-HA also corroborated my point that GM is looking for profits. Given the state of the economy and the industry, any other focus would be foolish.

Another thing to consider...any Camaro produced can't be priced too differently from a GTO.

Now let's talk about something productive...like how it will be equipped realistically.

Frankly, I'd say give it a nice ass interior like the GTO and keep the standard equipment low to keep cost down.

Here's something...I know a lot of you Camaro fans hate ABS...how about this: keep ABS standard for the safety nazis and have an ABS delete option (for a cost)? BOOM there's more Camaro performance while GM gets to make money off of it while still appeasing the safety nazis by having it standard. Not too expensive, but still a price on it, say $150.

someone on here has a really fucked up concept of self worth :blink:

Told ya a 20k base was unrealistic...

I quit WinMX last year. I am aware of this "twist" but so is the RIAA as it has been well publicized. Right now I'm trying out Shareaza. It seems dece so far...

there's this website, www.dictionary.com that has definitions of words and stuff. Or you could always look it up in a Webster's dictionary yourself.

The RIAA appears to have infiltrated the Ares network, and apparently the source code was released to them around the end of September. Stop using ARES if you currently are. Good luck. BTW if anyone knows a good P2P network, lemme know...

Stunning.

What Camaro? RWD is still years away at GM, and I think engine speculation is silly until we actually know a car is going to exist.

Anti-rust treatment? I'm pretty sure that most of that stuff is galvanized steel or aluminum. What would rust?

Wow ocn, that's a bummer!

Damnit Fly! Beat me to it!