steve333

 

 

Oh yeah, we get what we allow.  It's our own fault if we let it happen freely, blithely, ignorantly...

Yup, it is our fault. Not faulting the Chinese Government for taking advantage of it, I'm more angry with GM for doing this as I don't think it's needed and it makes them look bad especially when people are still angry over the bailout.

 

 

You want them to be bad at business?   If anything, from a strictly business standpoint, more Buicks should be built in China because that's where most of them are sold. 

 

GM cannot and should not be spinning up a whole new production line just to build 60,000 cars for the U.S.  They've already had to move the Terrain and Equinox around a bit just to accommodate those two. 

 

If they build Buick's in China and sell them there I have no problem with that. 

I think you all are downplaying the way this will play out in the media and in the mind of consumers. We may be rooting for GM, those that aren't will come down on them harder than I am.

As for not being able to produce the Envision in the U.S. that's just another sign of GM's shortsightedness.

I think GM needs a new CEO, have thought it for a long time. Barra is not up to the job, IMO

Dude it is clear China is not our best friend. Just by the way they steal from our unwitting government military secrets are enough to show that.

The bottom line is you are not going to starve China out and you are not going to our produce them. They are too large and their labor is to cheap to do so no matter how you figure it.

You can compare Apples to Oranges or Mac or what ever all day and it is only a single drop in the bucket. To defend against China and its economic might we need to do so also economically in areas we still can compete. Chinas weakness is they can only copy and reproduce. They are learning to create but they are still behind. If our government would wake up and fund more projects with the Military and NASA the technology race would be in our favor and we could if we protect it use it to our advantage.

Then we could play games with currency values as they do and hold some leverage.

As of now American companies can not afford not to be a part of their economy as those who do not participate will be at a major disadvantage. Any automaker not involved in China runs the risk of failure in the long run as development cost continue to rise they need to find more market share while other markets remain stagnate.

As they say keep my friends close and mine enemies closer.

But to harp about poor quality and harp about patriotism is not going to work. They make things as well as we do in many areas anymore. Also to convince the American public to either work for less money or pay more for average everyday goods is not going to wash either. America has been dealt a hand and we have to play it at this point. We still hold enough cards to remain relevant but harping over a hand full of Buicks is not going to so a damn thing.

The fact is you have to use all the facts not just the emotional ones.

And again why do you not complain about all the pharmaceutical companies importing the prescription drugs we take. Most come from there anymore and I find that more disturbing since much of it could not be made here in short term if they cut it off.

Buick you can choose not to buy but a valuable drug keeping mom or dad alive is not an option.

I do harp about those things just not in car forums.

Maybe it's time to change the hand we were dealt. There's a reason Trump and Bernie are doing so well in the primaries. People are finally fed up. 

Oh yeah, we get what we allow.  It's our own fault if we let it happen freely, blithely, ignorantly...

Yup, it is our fault. Not faulting the Chinese Government for taking advantage of it, I'm more angry with GM for doing this as I don't think it's needed and it makes them look bad especially when people are still angry over the bailout.

 

 

 

China uses State owned companies, including the one GM is involved with in China, the Chinese Government is not an ally, they pay their workers way less than S. Korea, the Chinese Government doesn't allow imported cars to be sold there without a tariff.

Some things we are forced to buy made in China because there are no options, there are plenty of options when it comes to vehicles.

And the same goes for the electronic device you are typing on here. There are options but that's not the bigger point here. Again, it's a world economy when it comes to vehicles. I am really not sure how to make this any clearer. 

 

I want a Mac I don't have a choice. I want a vehicle I have many choices.

As for the world economy, when a country doesn't trade fairly with my country I don't like it. I don't know how to make that any clearer. 

 

Actually, you are misinformed because the Mac Pro is made here, so there is a choice with Apple. BTW, most countries have what would be considered unfair trade practices, including us. Facts are your friend here, thus making your supposed argument a bit hallow.

 

You're comparing a Mac Mini to a Mac Pro? That's like saying I should buy a Cadillac when I can only afford a Sonic. 

.... and the argument Steve is using against China, the US does the exact same thing but with trucks and SUVs.   Or did you think Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Kia, Nissan, Volvo, and Mitsubishi built manufacturing plants here out of the goodness of their hearts to the American worker?

I have no problem with that. If a Chinese company wanted to build a Plant here to sell cars more power to them.

 

China uses State owned companies, including the one GM is involved with in China, the Chinese Government is not an ally, they pay their workers way less than S. Korea, the Chinese Government doesn't allow imported cars to be sold there without a tariff.

Some things we are forced to buy made in China because there are no options, there are plenty of options when it comes to vehicles.

And the same goes for the electronic device you are typing on here. There are options but that's not the bigger point here. Again, it's a world economy when it comes to vehicles. I am really not sure how to make this any clearer. 

 

I want a Mac I don't have a choice. I want a vehicle I have many choices.

As for the world economy, when a country doesn't trade fairly with my country I don't like it. I don't know how to make that any clearer. 

China uses State owned companies, including the one GM is involved with in China, the Chinese Government is not an ally, they pay their workers way less than S. Korea, the Chinese Government doesn't allow imported cars to be sold there without a tariff.

Some things we are forced to buy made in China because there are no options, there are plenty of options when it comes to vehicles.

 

 

 

Terrible PR and a stupid move, IMO.

I hope Barra gets canned and GM goes out and finds a real CEO

Jesus Christ Steve... We had this argument over at GMI damn near to death. Your argument for laid down their and if U keep it up here it will happen again.

MiatsoCi

 

You lost the argument over there if you want to lose it over here be my guest

 

 

 

People I have to let U kno that this is the same guy that said 

 

 

 

 I eat Chinese Food 3-4 times a week, believe me I have nothing against the Chinese.

steve333 @ GMI post #73

 

 

So I'll just do my thing.. as re-writing it would get tiring

 

Tell U what.. U start a campaign.. an effective one that gets behind it 250 money able Americans to STOP buying all Chinese manufactured goods, no matter how small or large, and I'll stop defending GM's reason for doing it as OK.. and American-Justified. 

 

I'm no fan of importing and selling the Envision here either.. but then again.. I'm no fan of importing and selling BMW, Toyotas/Lex, Hyundais/Kias, Benzes, VW/Audis, Jag-LRs, Honda/Acuras, Nissan/Infin, Volvos, Subies, or Mazdas either. The idea of allowing the Chinese to send all their cheap **** over here and we sop it up like biscuit wheels on a road of gravy.. but suddenly find "Uncle Sam" when GM pulls a car from one of its global factories and brings it here is just weird hypocrisy..

 

I gave up on the American worker a while ago.. went my own path. Saw that American would rather feed Japanese, German, and Korean workers while they themselves stood in line waiting to cash unemployment checks so they could make payments on their Prius, Jetta or Sonata.. rinse repeat.. 

 

Where I'm confused is .. How does it make sense that the Japanese worker building a Prius.. making a weekly $133,254 JPY is less of a problem than the Chinese worker making $6,483 YUAN, when the American.. who bought the Prius.. is making $392 a week in unemployment wages (used Michigan)???

 

Basically what this entire silly thread is saying (and I used this example before) is as an American.. we are "OK with Adolf, Goh, and Hiro sleeping with our significant other, but that Chung??? He better go find another tramp to sleep with and keep his hands off my cheating tramp so Adolf, Goh, and Hiro don't get their feelings hurt"

 

What I still don't get... Is why this, and only this import...seems to ruffle everyone's feathers when so much more from China is imported equaling higher overall dollar amounts and utilizing far more jobs. 

 

Also... I find it exceptionally interesting that no one has brought up (except me of course) that the UAW was complicit in this decision. I haven't even heard a word of them protesting hard or threatening to strike. Could it have been part of their deal? 

 

Lastly.. I am still blown away with the American job argument Vs China... but no issue with the Mexicans, Canadians, Koreans, Germans, or Japanese taking jobs. A lost job is a lost job, whether it be to Pablo in Mexico City , Anne-Marie in Ontario, Adolf in Germany, Goh in Korea, Hiro in Japan, or... And I kno y'all hate him the most.. Chung in China. Explain these to me.. with out prejudice or fear mongering and I'll exit from this thread

 

Interesting how you don't use the same nickname here as you do there, you're such a popular guy.

If you didn't get it from the long discussion over at GMI then you won't get it here either.

You have a hard on for GM and whatever they do, but not all of us are fanboys who accept every decision GM makes.

 

Terrible PR and a stupid move, IMO.

I hope Barra gets canned and GM goes out and finds a real CEO

Jesus Christ Steve... We had this argument over at GMI damn near to death. Your argument for laid down their and if U keep it up here it will happen again.

MiatsoCi

 

You lost the argument over there if you want to lose it over here be my guest

 

Terrible PR and a stupid move, IMO.

I hope Barra gets canned and GM goes out and finds a real CEO

 

It's just a temp move most likely.  But it makes a lot of business sense to do it this way when there isn't currently a line in the US to build them on.  GM sells 4 times as many Buicks in China as they do in the US.... including a good bunch of Enclaves that are built here in the states. 

 

They should have waited if they weren't smart enough to plan down the road. This is just what those opposed to the bailout were waiting for and it's pretty sad that they can't find another factory to build it. It's not like they don't have options

Terrible PR and a stupid move, IMO.

I hope Barra gets canned and GM goes out and finds a real CEO

The CT6 doesn't have any design appeal. The front end is ugly, the rest of the car is boring and that tumor logo looks ridiculous on anything but a black mesh grill like the Elmiraj.

I don't see how the CT6 will sell while the ATS and CTS are not selling.

GM should have fixed those cars first, IMO. Better grills and front ends, re-designed CUE with buttons and knobs and a nicer dash.

 

What We Know The 2016 CT6 is not Cadillac’s flagship, General Motors product chief Mark Reuss says. That role will be given to an even larger rear-wheel-drive sedan coming within four years. While the Cadillac CT6 is a bit bigger than a short-wheelbase BMW 7 Series, we expect the so-called CT8 to be slightly larger than the long-wheelbase Mercedes-Benz S-Class. The CT8, like the CT6, will ride on the new Omega platform, which employs GM’s patented process for welding aluminum. If the CT6 is any guide, the CT8 will be hundreds of pounds lighter than the S-Class. But the CT8 will be more than a long-wheelbase version of the CT6. Its styling should be more stately and upright, and it should put greater emphasis on ride comfort than handling dynamics. Engine choices will likely include the CT6’s new twin-turbo, 3.0-liter V-6 and a naturally aspirated, 3.6-liter V-6. Also expect a new V-8 from the same engine family, perhaps a twin-turbo, 4.5-liter example that will make 500-plus horsepower, as hinted by the Cadillac Elmiraj show car. The transmission will be an eight-speed automatic, unless the new 10-speed GM is developing with Ford arrives in time.

Why It Matters Although it doesn’t show on sales charts, Cadillac is enjoying a renaissance thanks to new models that match or beat their BMW and Mercedes-Benz rivals on many metrics. The CT8 promises to take these advances even further, making this car worthy of a window sticker that reads $95,000 or higher. Expect the CT8 to come with all the technology, safety, and luxury features Cadillac can muster to take on the Mercedes S-Class as the standard-bearer in this segment. Just as important, a big, long CT8 will give Cadillac a much-needed status symbol, a car worthy of shuttling important business and government leaders to global conferences.

Potential Pitfalls As much as Cadillac has improved, it has yet to achieve Lexus-like overall quality or Audi-like interior execution. The CT8 must do both. Specifically, its new engines must idle more smoothly than the engines we’ve experienced in the ATS and CTS, and the CUE infotainment system must respond quicker to user inputs. Even if Cadillac achieves all this right out of the gate, GM will have to be patient, as the CT8 will not achieve Audi/BMW/Mercedes status overnight.

When to Expect It Sometime during calendar year 2019, possibly by spring, as a 2020 model.

 

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/magazine/1508-cadillac-ct8-will-be-the-brands-first-true-flagship-in-modern-era/

 

I hope I didn't quote too much but that really is all the little article was so I thought it wasn't worth cutting it down..

 

Anyway, just some more exciting news coming from one of our D3!

 

That grill is awful, looks much better with the black mesh, IMO

I hear you. I wouldn't take the Corolla or Cobalt as a daily driver, as they do not work for me.

Handling-wise, are we comparing to the standard Cobalt or the SS? I respect the better specs of the SS, but then its not fair to compare to the standard Corolla. I haven't driven a Corolla XRS or a Cobalt SS, so I can't compare.

I can't say the Cobalt I drove was that much better at handling that the Corolla to offset some of the Corolla's other strengths.

Also, handling has a lot to do with the tires installed... and with the replacement tires on the Corolla (Tripletreds... not all out sport tires), it handles MUCH better than it did with the original tires. Of course, take that with a grain of salt... I never tried the Corolla on the fresh OEM tires... only after 25-40K, they were AWFUL.

I was comparing the Cobalt LT to the Corolla. I drove a 2006 version of the Corolla and it was awful.

I considered getting the Tripletreds for my Cobalt but went with Michelins. They really get caught on the grooved freeways in san diego. I kind of wish I tried the Tripletreds first.

I am a diehard GM guy, but I actually like the Corolla a bit. My friend has a 2003. Granted, its uncomfortable as hell for someone of my size... but for it's size, its impressive. I fit about as well in the Corolla as in the G6... a considerably longer car.

It moves pretty good considering the small engine, but you have to drive it like you hate it... and with decent tires (GY TripleTreds), it sticks to everything. It gets 40 mpg on the highway and has absorbed every pothole and hit NY drivers deliver to it. Its a barebones, functional, reliable machine... boring... not as boring as a Camry. I might not be able to outrun NYC taxis, but I can out dodge them.

Maybe the newer ones are crappier... but for all my debating about how great American cars are... I can't find much fault with the Corolla... I can't say the same thing about the Cobalt. Granted, I haven't driven a Cobalt for a long time, however.

I'd never buy one, or even rent one... but I can say that for the Cobalt, as well.

The Corolla may take bumps better but the Cobalt handles better than the Corolla. I guess it depends what you're looking for in a car. I would not be a happy camper if I had to drive a Corolla everyday but my Cobalt is fine. For me.

You pick the Crapolla to prove your point? The car that has single handedly made me lose faith in the American car buying public? I just don't get how that car sells 300k+ every year. Boring exterior styling? Check. Boring powertrain? Check Boring driving dynamics? Check. This car is horrid to drive. Boring with a capital "B". I've had many a Crapolla as a rental car and I'd rather drive just about any other compact car, including Kia's and Hyundai's. That car is just abysmal.

I agree. I test drove a Corolla before I ended up buying my Cobalt and it was the worst car I have ever drove. I was shocked at how bad it was-uncomfortable driving position, the engine had as much power as a lawn mower and sounded like one.

I am continually amazed that it got even half way decent reviews and that sheeple bought so many of them. Just an awful car.

I just wanted to replace my Cobalt with an improved model.

I honestly don't know if I can buy a car with that name. When I first read that they were changing the name to Cruze I thought I was going to vomit.

Nova? Fine Monza? Fine Optra? Fine

Cruze? Um, no

I agree: "Cruze" is a stupid name (although I never liked "Cobalt" either). There must be something in Chevy's backlog of model names that could have been resurrected that would be more appropriate than this. At this point, Daewoo's name ("Lacetti") for this car sounds better and much less contrived than "Cruze" (although I wouldn't recommend using the Daewoo name either).

I also agree about Buick's and Pontiac's model names. There was no reason to change "Regal" to "LaCrosse" (a name they couldn't use in Canada because of it slang connotations) or "LeSabre" to "Lucerne"; the "LaCrosse" and "Lucerne" names sound much weaker than their predecessors. The fact that the upcoming LWB Eps II LaCrosse will probably become Buick's flagship sedan bothers me only because the name is not appropriate for the brand's flagship sedan (otherwise, the car is beautiful and is totally appropriate as a Buick flagship); "Invicta" or "LeSabre" would have worked just fine (I really don't think anyone would miss the "LaCrosse" and "Lucerne" model names). The G-Numeric moniker system at Pontiac is even more moronic, especially since the naming scheme is not used on all of the brand's products. Pontiac has some great names from its past that could have been used on their products that support the supposedly sporty direction (that has never been fully realized) of this brand.

The only question I have is this: Was Bob directly responsible for the name changes or was it the work of some "brilliant" marketing guru?

Its claimed that GMs marketing Dept came up with Cruze and most likely the other names. If this is the case the entire Dept. needs to be fired along with Red Ink Rick.

Maybe someone can ask him why GM never learns.

Changing the name of the Cobalt to the Cruze is moronic, just as it was dumb to change all of Pontiac and Buick's names.How did that work out for you, Bob?

Cruze is the dumbest name for a car I have ever heard.

And where's the coupe?

I think I'm going to projectile vomit.

Cruze!? I was waiting for GM to come out with a replacement for my Cobalt and now they think I'm going to buy a Chevy Cruze!? Who in Gods name came out with that idiotic, moronic, witless name? I didnt think they should change the name at all but I would have had no problem if they changed it to Nova, Chevelle, Monza, even Optra.

To make matters worse they are waiting until 2010 in their weakest market to sell the replacement while not improving the current Cobalt at all! What do they think the resale value will be on current Cobalts? What about all the Cobalt fansites that exist now?

Cruze? Oh man, I think I am going to have to jump ship this time. Its just not worth an ulcer trying to prop up a company as clueless as GM. The next Focus may be my next purchase or the Mazda 3.

GM, you deserve whatever fate befalls you. I am nauseated right now.

Market shift my friend. Which of the new compacts have friendly faces? Except probably Mazda3. The rest are pit bulls ready to charge in a dog fight at Vick's home.

Personally I think it looks like ass. I don't like the way the grill cuts into the hood. I think the majority of Chevy fans are dissapointed in what we see so far.

Go here and let GM know that we won't accept anything less than a homerun:

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2008/...a_little_1.html

While K&N filters do work pretty good in trucks (I had one in my s-10), most of the time they really don't do stuff for smaller cars like the Cobalt....it doesn't offer better mpgs.(unless you do some serious highway) than a paper filter....

Money would be better spent on a free flowing exhaust....

Oh, too good to be true I guess

Umm...no.

Why not?

They should just add a K & N Air Filter to all new cars and get an additional 2 or so MPG.

Probably for playing MP3s from a Flash drive. Chrysler's myGig stereos have USB ports, I think..

Gm is just letting the Cobalt rot like they did to the Cavalier.

I can't believe they still refuse to put a telescoping steering wheel in it-EVERY car in its class now has one, including the Astra.

The Cobalt desperately needs that telescoping steering wheel and more comfortable seats. Those are the 2 most glaring issues with my Balt. Well, that and the defective intermediate shaft and steerong column. I know GM hasnt done squat about fixing that issue.

http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com

Honestly, back in the day, cars used to have at least some exterior differences, like a minor grille insert change-take the Cobalt-its the same mediocre, cramped-interior, underequipped piece of crap right down to most of the wheel covers since inaugural 2005 model year-that's 4 years with little significant change! Even most colors are the same! Enough with this laxadaisicalness!!!! (Especially when its just a mundane, boring, inoffensive, yet not horrible car as it is.)

Yup, the least they could have done is improve the seats and put in a telescoping steering wheel. The suspension and steering need tweaking also. GM has a habit of letting its products rot on the vine. The Cobalt is the perfect example of that.