scotthendersonfan

The Ford duratec engines are very coarse and unrefined in my experience. That can be balanced out, but the Honda engines just seem to designed from the ground up to be smoother and more precise. The 4 banger in the Fusion is just rubbish compared to the Accord 4 cylinder. You're almost afraid to step on the gas because the engine just makes a lot of unpleasant noises but doesn't really go anywhere. The 4 banger in the Accord pulls surprisingly strong for a 4 cylinder unit in such a big car.

The VQ puts out more noise and vibration than something like the Camry but it's good noise and vibration. Lets see how the new Mazda does. It does look nice. Malibu I haven't test driven yet.

The Accord is definitely the smart and practical buy here but it is just too ugly on the outside with all the weird lines, angles and curves. However, it is very much a Honda and pretty high quality, more so than any of the other current competitors.

In any case, coming back to the thread, pick up any new Toyota technical engine literature and you will see the SAE J1349 logo and a description stating that the engine has been rated in compliance with this new OPTIONAL standard. How else do you think the power dropped in 2005? Since then, all their engines have been tested under that standard. You can debate (if you can call it that) on an internet forum all you like, but I can tell you that IT IS A FACT. Maybe you need to witness the testing with your own eyes or see it published on the SAE site but that's alright, some people are paranoid. In the meanwhile, know that the engine makes the power that's stated and if you were to test it using the SAE procedures today, you'd come up with that number as well.

BTW why're you so hung up on Toyota. If it's all GM and no one else, why not blame BMW, Ford, MB and everyone else as well?

You cannot possibly make a decent argument for Toyota and now you're reduced to this?

Your meltdown is most comical and bit pathetic.

Usually, Toyota lovers go one or two rounds before losing humor.

You lost it right from the start. Maybe you never had it?

Likely it seems.

SAE rated using the test method that is formally, independently verified as GM has done. No.

All engine test results posted on the web where everyone can see. No.

End of discussion. Talk to the hand.

Come back again when your favorite lesser manufacturer has the goods.

Comical meltdown would decribe YOU in that other thread when you accused me finding unavailable magical Toyota photos. Oddly, you never showed back up there.

Again, I don't know what you're referring to here. Every single Toyota engine is SAE certified under the voluntary SAE J1349 certification. That is exactly what GM is doing.

Prior to the new SAE specifications in 05, some manufacturers like Toyota and Chrysler used to specify gross HP (what the engine makes) while some like GM used to specify net HP (which gave you the net HP available at the flywheel with all accessories and emissions losses taken into account). The difference in HP could be as large as 100HP but no one was lying, it was just a difference in reporting what kind of power it was. Of course, those who were reporting net HP all along didn't see a large drop (some actually rose like the Z06) while those reporting gross noticed a loss in output. The engine was still putting out the same amount of HP so all the performance figures remained the same.

Almost every single manufacturer adheres to the voluntary SAE certification because it's taken as an industry standard. Now you can come back at me with some witty BS like you seem to be so good at but I think I've explained it clear enough. Some people enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing and putting other people down. I'm not one of them. Take this post for what it is.

Care to share how you found those wonderful professional quality TOYOTA pictures?

Sure, just an uninterested, unpaid, voluntary blogger that suddenly arrives at just the right moment with commercial quality photographs that are found no where else on the internet.

For a vehicle that isn't even for sale at this time.

If anyone cares to look on the Toyota website, the pictures are far less flattering, even putrid.

Dare I say putrid?

Jeezuz calm down will ya? I just visited the link mentioned in the first post and the photos were there.

Really?

Truly?

You wouldn't lie about this would you?

Surely if those lesser manufacturers are proud of their 210 200 196 horsepower engines,

the should at least have the cahones to post their SAE test results on the web.

I mean, yeah, it's tough to meet that higher standard that GM has set.

And someday those lesser manufacturers "might" step up to the plate.

But until then.....

Still waiting.

Himalayas turned to flatland waiting.

Huh? What's with all the sarcasm and weird poetry. Are you a prick like this in real life as well? It's just a discussion forum man, take it easy.

The engine you mentioned was SAE rated, not intially, but towards the end. That explains the drop in the HP. But since then, every engine they've put out is SAE rated. Pretty much every single manufacturer does it nowadays. So if you're looking at an 07 or 08 model for instance, the engine will be SAE rated for power and will correspond to the new EPA standards for gas mileage.

Every single Toyota and Honda engine is SAE J1349 certified. Don't see what's the big deal about it.

It looks almost as good as that new Hyundai.

Not quite.

But almost.

It's amazing how far Toyota has fallen since starting to cheap out their interiors and dumb down their exteriors just to save $$$ on assembly.

A single tear rolls down his face.

Don't know where you're getting all that from. That is one of the best and highest quality interiors in any Toyota to date.

Non-nav model

Torque means NOTHING when the truck isn't moving. That much weight falling makes its force even greater. If I were there in person then maybe I would believe it, same goes with any domestic truck doing the ad. The scenarios used in the ads are nothing more than smoke and mirrors trying to convey a tough image with situations that would almost never happen in the real world.

Huh? Torque is torque whether an object is moving or not. When force is applied in the direction of motion and the object moves, you do work. If force is applied and there is no motion, no work is said to be done. However the force (torque) is still being applied.

So this actually happened? I don't think anyone is going to hop in the truck, let someone tie a huge dangling trailer to the cliff and then let it fall so that they can stop the truck and start pulling the trailer back up. The truck is a few inches from falling off the ramp if I remember correctly, and there's nowhere to go but down, down, down if it did roll back another foot.

If the thing they dropped actually was 5000lbs, the Tundra had to overcome a 22300 Newtons trying to pull it off the ramp in a very short period of time. Assuming the Tundra also weighs 5000 lbs and the coefficient of static friction was ~.8 (this is the normal static friction between a tire and road), the Tundra would be making a force of only 17800 Newtons with the road in the opposite direction of the 22300 trying to pull it off. Where is the extra 4500 Newtons of force coming from? It certainly is going to take longer than the commercial shows to stop a 4500 Newton force.

So it may be real, but the trailer doesn't weigh as much as advertised if it does.

The Tundra makes 401 lb-ft torque. Assuming all 400 lb-ft is utilized, the torque driving the tires = 401 x 3.333 x 4.1 = 5475 lb-ft. If you assume 18" wheels, the force at the road surface is approx. 5475 x 12 / 9 = 7300 lbs. Assuming the Tundra is 5000 lbs like you said, assume there's about 1250 lbs at each wheel (for simplicity). Therefore the max friction = 0.8 x 1250 x 4 = 6250 lbs.

So I don't think they were lying.

I'm going to go old school with a Corolla

Zero CGI or special effects, just good camera work. Toyota even makes that claim at the beginning of their ads. The making of the different ads can be seen on the Tundra website.

So if a new coupe is coming for '08, a new sedan is also? Haven't seen anything posted about a new Accord sedan..

Actually both cars are 2008 models being released in 2007 (sedan will be out September 07)

Even the Torrent is at least on par with the CRV

You're confusing design with quality. GM in the past had issues with both. Then their designs started falling in line and now finally, their quality is coming close to the competition.

I'm sorry, the Edge's interior is nowhere even close to the CRV's interior. It looks ok in photos but in person, it is the same old Ford - cheap, cheap, cheap.

Compare The Edge's interior to Ford's own Mazda CX9's interior. You may not percieve the difference in quality in these pictures, but I assure you, in person, there's a major difference in the feel of both interiors. The CRV is the same, it is a very quality interior compared to its competition. However, I have still not been in any of the Lambdas but the Acadia and Enclave interior look first rate.

Only bad thing I can say about the current Civic is that the DX (base model, starting at around $15k) doesn't have a radio or air conditioning standard. It has ABS and a spoiler, but no AC.

The DX is a BS model. I don't even know why Honda sells it.

I'm not too thrilled with the new Civic's (my friend owns one) interior. There are many bits and pieces that I found that were a lot cheaper than the last generation Civic.

However, I was extremely impressed with the car's chassis rigidity. You'll notice it every single time you step into that car from another car. The chassis just feels extremely solid and stiff over bumps and undulations. The result is almost zero creaking, squeaking, noises etc. (drives me nuts). Also, the doors close in a very secure and cushioned fashion.

Overall, a very impressive car for the class that it is in.

This is for regfootball. Here's a chop of the front with the camouflage removed. It looks a little sharper than the Scion tC nose to me (which is not a bad looking car to be honest)

There are no standardized tests and Toyota can't incorporate a testing routine for every state. The Prius is OBDII compliant. Unfortunately Georgia isn't.

Show me one hybrid that gets decent real world mileage. Don't throw me a copy of CR.

http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage...a-priushsd.html

1200 users in that database. Those are all real-world numbers, mostly city. Find me another midsize car that can get 45+ mpg in the city.

Wow, it will be interesting to see how many of these they sell.

There's a minimum of one year wait to buy one. They're already pre-booked and sold out for one year.

Photoshopped version of the above photo based on the Accord Coupe Concept (almost exactly the same) with the white camouflage covering the tailights removed and different wheels

Concept

Fantastic design as it is. But they're going to have to water it down significantly for production purposes, and then how would it look?

Rental Special

I like it a lot minus the nose.

Concept shown is very close to production model. Will arrive in late 2008.

Powertrain

500+ HP V10 (under 5 liters)

9000 RPM redline

Front midengine placement

Rear mounted transaxle

Rear mounted radiators

200mph Top speed.

Tire Size

Front: 265/35R20

Rear: 305/30R20

Dimensions (inches)

Overall Length: 175.6

Overall Width: 74.6

Overall Height: 48.0 Wheelbase: 102.3

Agreed it is better than the concept, though it's not great.

The current EVO MR is $37k, so I sort of doubt this will come in that much cheaper. Also, the interior is likely very bad considering it is just an economy car, more or less.

Well the previous EVO's interior is hardly anything worth discussing. Mitsu could take this car further upmarket if they wanted by making it an exclusive model. But then you wouldn't be able to afford the car anymore. It's already among the best handling cars in the world, making most other cars look sloppy in comparison. A 0-60 in under 4.5s definitely makes it more exciting.