greg_nate

They are referring to the wheel well gap...apparently being able to stick anything larger than 3" between the tire and fender is too much for these folks.  I too love a lowered vehicle and minimal wheel well gap, but calling this a "lift kit" is just plain stupidity.   I think they're smokin' something!

"Lift kit" is an intentional exageration to make a point. Settle down and quit resorting to insults. Election season is officially over - let's try to get back to a state of decency.

Yes, I am referring to wheel well gap. All of GM's vehics have a huge wheel gap - including the Corvette. Ask *ANY* 4th gen owner how they feel about the huge gap in wheel wells. The terms "lift kit" or "4x4" appearance have been around for years with the Camaro guys. I happen to be one of those Camaro guys and Vette guys.

It is just a styling consideration that I think GM has grossly overlooked.

Memo for GM: Stop putting lift kits on all of your passenger vehicles. Lift kits for truck are good, not for passenger cars and sports cars.

...

nevermind, going back to my corner. continue with the nonsense.

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I really prefer it when you post. Its one of the reasons I visit this site. Say what you have to say, maybe some of want to hear it.

I wouldn't post stuff that I didn't believe. I think that, in my three years here, I have at least a few people that could support that I don't say stuff that I feel is just a stupid rumor or something that won't prove to be true or somewhat true.

Also, Flybrian has stated this before:

When someone chooses to share information, you DO NOT have to agree, but you MUST afford them respect.

Anyway, take what I've said here FWIW. When you see that this is credible, just know where you saw this stuff first. And if it proves to not be credible, then you may knock me. Until then, we'll see. :AH-HA_wink:

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Nice post and you are correct - respect is due. My apologies for being harsh. You have to admit though, that the numbers posted are truly unbelievable - meaning, I don't see how they are technically feasable with a simple RWD platform unless the new Vette has two 36 inch wide rear tires.

Well, Northie, I could, but I turned off history on my Firefox settings.

You've just lost all credibility with this statement. C'mon now. This thread needs to be removed from the front page and put into the "Wild Fantasy" forum.

I search the forms as much as anyone else on the net, and I haven't seen any credible details other than the project has been green lighted. Even the supposed spy pics are not a certainty - they could be a Caddy mule for all we know. We just don't know enough yet.

The supposed 3 valve heads are another question mark. Pics and patents dated three years ago don't mean anything. Its nice to speculate, but until we get some hard info from credible insiders, its still nothing more than speculation. And this site, once upon a time, used to have one of the best group of insiders on the net until a certain personality ran them all off. Its a shame.

Can't you look in your history list to see what forum you got it from?

I think that Lingenfelter C5 probably had drag slicks to go 0-60 in 1.97. 2.5 to 60 is insanely fast, but we'll see. It seems next to impossible because the Veyron has 1000hp and AWD and does it in 2.5, so the Vette being just as fast without AWD seems impossible without slicks.

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Exactly...that's what I said above. On street tires, I just don't see it happening without AWD.

Zero to 60 in under 2.5 seconds....

If this is true, I don't believe it can be done with RWD on street tires. That's faster than the turbo V16 Veyron. It must then, be an AWD platform if the 2.5 second 0-60 is true.

Its almost unbelievable, actually. For 100k? I wonder if we're getting our chain pulled.

Did anyone notice that the valvetrain in the CAD and in the photos are different?

One is obviously an evolution over the other.

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It looks like they went from shaft mount in the CAD to stud mount rockers in the photo. Probably more to do with cost than performance.

But other than that, the details look the same.

Specifically, look at the shape of the exhaust port. I haven't seen this shape before. Its not round, its not "D" shaped, its not ovular. Its kinda like ovular with a protruding bluge. I sure wish we could see inside the head. I have a suspicion that the exhaust valve is huge and that the protruding bulge runs all the way up into the combustion chamber.

I can't figure out how the midget pushrod for the exhaust port is kept in place. It seems to be simply wedged between the rocker and the dimple on the shaft.

What puzzles me also is what appears to be a huge surface area for the head chamber. In a standard pushrod engine, the valves are literally squished in there, within thousandths of an inch from one another. These valves don't look at all cramped or close. The head itself is huge and resembles a typical OHC engine.

Patience .... 2007 NAIAS

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And reliable sources on this? And will it be in the form of a Saab?

Has anyone heard any new information regarding whether or not a 2008 Malibu Maxx hatch/wagon will exist?

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It will cease to exist. Which still boggles me. The car got good reviews, and I blieve sits on the same platform as the Saab 9-3 Sportcombi, which has been doing fairly well.

I think the MAXX could have done well, if Chevy has simply pushed it more aggressively.

most dealerships do 2-3k 'back of book' so if it's trade in value or wholesale value is 20k then they will try to get it 2-3k less for reconditioning porposes or if it needs to be wholesaled they sure dont want to lose any money on it...

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Newbiewar: Are you guys ADP or R&R?

Why? and by who exactly?

I'd like to know the theory behind this also. The way I see it, York is in the driver's seat.

His job is to push an issue. His talent(Why Kerkorian pays him) lies in finding the right issue to push.

York's original issue, selling Hummer/Saab didn't pan out. GM stood up to him and he lost.

Round two. York comes up with a different issue in which GM cannot easily wriggle out of.

No matter what happens, York comes out on top. He will still get handsomly paid.

Bottom line about York is this: He has a loud bark and that's about it. No real bite. If he truly cared about turning GM's profits around he'd take on the single most important issue confronting GM at this time: Labor costs.

For every cent that goes to labor, a cent is lost to shareholders. The transfer of wealth in the from of Union benefits, to shareholder dividends, is where the businessman should be looking.

The more I think abot this, the more I see it is such a ruse and nothing else.

Either way, it appears Kirk wants out and his money to boot.

Suffice it to say - You will not hear this in the press.

I totally agree, but with a slight twist. I do honestly believe that Kirk wants out...however, by creating this spin he sets himself with a win-win.

If the media and the stock market get frenzied enough for his shares to become profitable, then he sell out and wins.

However, if the partnership actually does come to fruition with Nissan and Renault each getting a 10% share, that puts Kirk in a highly powerful position. With Nissan and Renault on his side, he's got a 30% controlling interest. Then he could do whatever he wanted, such as get out the chopping block and start hacking.

Kirk clearly has no interest in automobiles - he has interest in money and power only. At nearly 90 years old, you'd think he'd be pulling a Buffet maneuver. Instead, this maniac still believes he can take his money to the grave with him.

I really don't think Nissan/Renault has anything to offer GM. Like you said so well with so few words, this is a chess game. We'll just have to wait and see if Wagoner blinks. If Wagoner caves, I think it will be ugly.

And I *STILL* don't know why no one has posted about the UAW response/repercussions yet. That is a huge part of this mix.

i am so surprised no one has commented on this.

if GM hits the market first with a plug in hybrid.....this blows away the hybrid hype for toyota.  THIS IS HUGE!

We've been talking about this on the other site. My handle is "racy" over there.

The thing that originally caught my attention was not as much that GM had a Plug-In hybrid, but that they intentionally suppressed its introduction.

I've been having trouble coming up with a logical reason for their moves. Either they are intending a PR bombshell next January, or they are on the verge of their biggest blunder to date. The thing with GM these days is, either option is plausible.

I managed to dig up the original press release with the Plug-In wording still in tact.

I'd love to hear other opinions on GM's move regarding this.

My sources say we'll get a Chevelle and Monte Carlo and 80,000 would be a goodmonthly sales estimate.  You heard it here first. :wink:

80K/month is quite a bit...what about the Impala? Is it going to become more more of a niche vehicle, giving up numbers to the Chevelle and Monte?

H4 would be perfect competition against the Asian truck invasion. H4 can be bold and aggressive where the Chevys and GMCs cannot. With a modicum of effort, they could blow away Toyota's FJ Cruiser...packing more power and better gas mileage.

I say wrap the car in a a new body inspired by the '63-'67 Vette, and let all enthusiasts drool all over the damn thing!

I think its going to look like a slighty modified C6 Z06. There have been some speculation spy pics floating around. Its supposed to be touting 600hp numbers, and tipping the scales at 2900 lbs.

The C6 Z06 is already a beast and is owning its turf - including the high end exotics. I expect the Blue Devil to be miles ahead of anything on the road.

Good morning everyone, long time reader, first time poster.  I agree that a big problem with GM staying on top is the union especially when the union has members who act like the following:  a fraternity brother of mine's dad retired from GM and is complaining about them cutting pensions and health benefits.  This guy is obese though, probably 60-80 lbs. overweight and is on oxygen.  I don't know if he is on oxy because of the work he was doing in the factory or what, but regardless, he could breathe a lot easier if he lost the set of tires around his middle. 

So he has health problems and is pissed his health care is being cut.  Understandable except for the fact that within the past two years he has bought a new Trailblazer EXT, a brand new Hitachi Plasma (the model with the rotating remote controlled stand which is EXPENSIVE!), a new Onkyo sound system, an XBOX 360 (a retiree?  Yup, NOT his kid), a new high end HP computer, etc...real responsible spending there and all he can do is bash GM for cutting the benefits of retirees.  How sick is this?  If GM is going to stay on top, it needs to change more than just its business, but people's modes of thinking and lifestyle too...

GM isn't going to be able to change your friend's dad. Its not a GM problem. Its an American problem. The person you just described is a fairly good representation of the average American.

For the sake of comparison, Aura Spy Shot:

And our Mistery Car:

Very similar.

That's the best comparison shots I've seen yet. I think you nailed it. These cars are sharing the same greenhouse. The similarities are striking.

This may all be true, but it certainly doesn't add up to the V8 being dead. Regardless of volume, the V8 is being placed on an even higher pedestal than ever. It is aspirational, and appearing on more option lists rather than less. I remember the death of the V8 being predicted decades ago, which obviously did not occur. The results this time around will be the same.

Will the overall volume of v8 production decline? Perhaps, and perhaps not. Too many emerging variables are in the mix such as alternative fuels, DOD and other emerging technologies, and on the other side the rise of diesel and bio-diesel technologies along with the light truck CAFE standards. Either way, the v8 will remain - dominant or simply available, it will be around.

I don't think the V8 is dead. I just think it is in its final swan song.

Here's the main question that has to be answered: Beyond enthusiast demand, can another technology replace the need for a gasoline V8? Are there things out there that can provide the horsepower and torque that a V8 can? The answer to both of those questions is , "Yes, and they are coming quickly".

So what is an automaker to do with this scenario? What is a sensible choice, given the fact that gas isn't ever going to get cheaper? If an antomaker can build a fuel efficient 6 banger diesel V6 that meets all the requirements of a V8, then they are going to do it - which is where Honda seems to be going.

As little as 10 years ago, there was a job that only a gas V8 could do. That's not a true statement today.

AND..............

if you want to add more fuel to this fire, go read my thread about GM's new

diesel developments down under, and what they plan for U.S. models.

Then consider this news item, that was just published in Edmunds!

Honda to launch diesel Odyssey & Acura MDX in US

There have been several rumors about new diesels coming from Honda recently, one being a V6 diesel for their larger vehicles. Now we get word that the Odyssey and MDX will get this engine by 2009. Not mentioned in this link, but has been rumored elsewhere on the Net is that the Ridgeline could also get this engine. I see these as very smart moves on Honda's part.

Snippet: ‘‘We think Honda’s light trucks, such as the Odyssey and the MDX, will be more fuel efficient with diesels,’’ Mr Fukui said adding, “We don’t have any plans to put hybrid systems in light trucks, such as the Odyssey and MDX in the US.’’ Mr Fukui said the four-cylinder engine can be installed in vehicles by 2009. Bloomberg

Diesel engines will use less fuel than hybrid systems for light trucks driven longer distances, Fukui said. Honda is developing a V6 diesel engine, mainly for the US market. If diesel engines in light trucks prove popular, the company may also use them in cars.

This is also interesting...

Snippet: Nissan Motor Co, Japan’s second-largest carmaker, is also considering diesel vehicles for the US market. The carmaker may put diesel engines in U.S. pickup trucks and sport-utility vehicles, chief executive officer Carlos Ghosn said in November.

PM me with the link to that thread please. I am interested. FWIW, I think Honda is on the right track with the new diesels, particularly in their trucks and SUVs. It just makes so much more sense than hybrid versions. I've read about Honda's new diesels too, and they tout very good numbers.

V8 Volume is small and insignificant for the brands you mentioned.  In the US Cadillac probably sells more V8s than Lexus, MB,BMW and Infiniti combined in non truck based product.

This is the point I think people keep missing. Sure Toyota, DCX and BMW are coming out with new V8s, but they aren't in volume. They are simply producing V8 models to fill the performance gap between 6s and 8s.

And here's the other point that determines strongly what manufacturers produce: They strongly consider what will be sold in America. We are the largest market. America is the Holy Grail of auto manufacturers. If they can get into the American market, then they are saved.

What sells over here? Gasoline V8s. Period.

When we(Americans) start warming up to the new diesel engines and diesel fuels, I strongly believe we'll see monster diesel 4s and 6s in cars from Toyota, DCX and BMW.

30 years ago, the V8 had to fill a single need: Performance. Today, powertrain consideration need to meet performance as well as social considerations. Gasoline V8s are the only thing meet these requirements at the moment.

If VW, Audi, Saab or Volvo were smart, they'd build a small tuner oriented 4 cylinder diesel engine and sell it here in the states. Just imagine 300 ft/lbs of torque at 1000 rpms in a small car that weighs 2600 pounds. Nothing on the road could touch it. It would get 40+ mpg as well as give Dodge Vipers a run for their money. To boot, they could stroke the environmentalists by claiming it runs on Biodiesel. I am just surprised that it hasn't happened yet.

I believe the HP wars are reaching their limits and peaks.  The V8 engine is slowly becoming archaic in the passenger vehicle market for that very reason.  Modern 4s and 6 have pushed vehicle performance to sports car territory of only a few years ago.

Here's another take on this one. Before you laugh, think about it.

I agree that the V8 is seeing its last years. The recent horsepower wars have given it the great opportunity to go out with much deserved style and class. It reminds me of a prize fighter coming out of retirement to win one last championship, and walking away proud not to be the victor, but proud to have been able to fight.

So the question is this: What will take its place. As was mentioned 4s and 6s are technoligically speaking, coming up with good performance numbers. And those numbers will undoubedly continue to climb.

Supercharged and turbocharged 4's rival today's V8s in horsepower - what's missing though is their low end grunt. That low end grunt is what is needed for a large passenger car or truck. V6's will be able to fill that need better than the SC/TC 4s, but they simply don't have the displacement needed to pull off a seemless transition from V8s to V6s.

Enter the longshot: The modern diesel engine. There are many modern diesels that are stepping up to the ring with a long list of great numbers. No more smelly diesel fumes. No more rattling and chattering. No more horrendous emissions that one can actually see in the air. Everything that the Americans hate about diesels are nonexistent with the new breeds. And what's more, they have horsepower now. The modern diesels can wind up just as good as their production gasoline counterparts.

So going back to the truck/large passenger car dilemma of not having enough low end torque, modern diesels have an answer to that. There are several manufactures of 6 cylinder diesels pushing 400 ft/lbs of torque, and near 300 horsepower. Think about that for a second: that's entering Corvette territory.

And these numbers aren't even turbocharged numbers - they are N/A numbers.

And what about fuel efficiency? Diesels own the arena.

And then there's this biodiesel thing happening over here in the states. Biodiesel production is slated to double this year and double again the following year. Biodiesel futures look more than bright - they look glowing. Honda, GM and DCX have been talking big about diesels as of late. Toyota being the only one not talking, but lets not forget that they have a formidible arsenal of diesel powerplants.

What do you think?

I am a few days short to this thread and I only found it because I was wondering whatever happened to AH-HA. I used to look forward to anything he had to say - which is why I went searching for his posts.

I find this departure saddening.