CARBIZ

The Ontario government changed the rules a couple years ago, forbidding manufacturers to advertise 'cash prices' if they involved a rebate. Consequence: nobody does cash rebates here any more. Why would they?

I would be the last person to 'buy' a car (leasing is almost always the best way to go), but with true 0% for 72 months, the payment was the same as a lease for us. Since we are low, low mileage (about 600 miles a month), if we are bored with the car (which I know I will be, but probably not my other half), I will certainly be able to trade it in at 48 mo. and at least get the tax savings, which with our 14% combines sales taxes can be sizeable.

Every deal is different, but the real kicker is when a commitment is made to a vehicle, then an unforseen accident or speeding tickets causes that person's insurance to skyrocket. Now there is a dilemma. I have seen this happen many times. If you have a lien on the car, you cannot cancel the insurance. But what do you do if your insurance doubles, which happens a lot in this gawdawful Province where the Banks and Insurance companies rule?

Cheap money is the drug: the mortgage balloon is the hang-over. Cash is not always the answer - but that is the paradox. If someone has $25k cash to buy a car, but the manufacturer is offering 0% (or even 1.9 or 2.9), why would the prudent consumer not take the manufacturer up on the offer? I did. 72 mo. at 0% made the payment lower than a lease! Of course, the prudent course of action would be to re-invest that $25k, but instead the happy consumer goes out and buys a boat, too!

With the same logic applied to mortgages (if you can 'borrow' up to 75% of the equity in your home for improvements, a new car, pay off other debts), it is a slippery slope. Many people had homes nearly paid off, but then were seduced by amazing offers by their banks, took out an equity loan and blew it on cars, boats, and other 'essentials.' Unfortunately, this past several years of prosperity was all an illusion. The fundamentals were not there.

'Consumer-led' economic uptrend.' What exactly is that? Answer: a new monicker for the banks to give you a big enough noose to hang yourself.

The Koreans have smartened up as far as making their vehicles LOOK a lot better than they used to. O.C. is correct in that the new Sonata is a nice looking car, inside and out, but the power/ride and handing of the current generation Malibu is better. The quality of plastics and 'fit and finish' of the current Sonata is quite nice. The Korean cars have always been under-powered - that is their Achilles heal. They still haven't figured out how to match the power and refinement of better offerings. It is obvious that Hyundai has tried hard with the Sonata; less so with the Accent.

Ten years ago, getting people to put $3k,$5k down was easy. Now, we are lucky to get first payment on a lease.

North Americans have been living WAY beyond their means for about 5-10 years now, masking some deep schisms in our economy - all the while, Asia has been happily financing those bad habits. What a hang over this is going to be!

Just wait. The chickens are coming home to roost. Let's see how many rock solid banks confess to having 'packaged up' those rotten investments in mortgages and sold them to investors.

As I have said before: WALL STREET DOES NOT PRODUCE ANYTHING. Shuffling paper is not an honorable profession. Unless a country makes, produces or innovates it is DEAD.

You might want to go back and read the topic comments. Northstar stated production of the 2010 LaCrosse begins Jan'09. That's 15 months away! We'll be seeing it debut much sooner than that, so this really isn't too far in advance.

Still, the point can be made that silence is golden. Chrysler nearly overtook Ford in '57 because NOBODY anticipated the hysteria that the be-finned lovelies that Chrysler brought out that year. Both GM and Ford had to go back to the drawing boards, literally. There used to be a degree of secrecy in this business, but now everything is paraded out years in advance to guage reaction.

Still designing by committee? GM needs to just take a chance and catch the public off-guard for a change.

Toyota is DOWN 5.2% for the month (+3.4% for the year). Their market share has actually dropped from 11.6 to 11.5 YTD.

Honda is UP 5.8% for the month (+ 6.4% for the year). Market share up 0.2 to 8.6%.

Ford is up 8.6% for the month (-0.7% for the year.)

Chrysler is up 1.2% for the month (+6.1% for the year.)

Overall, the Canadian market was up 3.1% for the month.

Source: DesRosiers

http://www.desrosiers.ca/pdfs/sales.pdf

So what exactly do you guys not like about the CR-V, in particular? Why is it not good? Have you driven one?

So the headline should read:

American Honda Sets New All-time Record, August Sales Up 4.7 Percent

Honda Division, Pilot sets All-time Record low, down 50.2 percent

Would that make you happy?

Overall, I like the CR-V, but I find the look a little too 'busy.' It's like the Honda designers went to the Mazda School of Design, passed with honors, but are trying too hard. For sure, this CR-V is a vast improvement over the previous one, but IMO the previous CR-V was very, very bland.

Still, I just sold a Malibu LT to a woman who has an Accord lease up soon: can you say STICKER SHOCK. She could BUY the Malibu LT (V-6, XM, etc) for the same as a LEASE on the new Accord.

Score one for GM.

Great article.

I don't think any of us are suprised that honda and toyota are starting to have issues with their cars. The 1980s & early 90s accord & camry didn't have much for options or high tech stuff. They also didn't build them in bulk like they do now. As the years go by, I won't be suprised to find both honda and toyota fall in quality. It will take the public 10+ years to catch on though, just like in the case of GM.

Not to mention the fact that rear rotors are a mixed blessing in our weather: the front wheels stir up the slush and salt, coating the rear wheels as you drive. In most cases, Canadians would be better off with drum brakes on the back, considering we live in igloos and have snow 8 months of the year.

.....and I believe, if I remember correctly, sludge problems occured in engines that were NOT properly maintained????

(raise again...)

Your memory fails you, sir. A dealer revolt in the States is what finally addressed the problem. American Toyota dealers were fed up with being caught in the cross-fire with Toyota corporate denial on the sludge issue. Undoubtedly, there were cases where spotty maintenance was an issue, but the majority of the cases the customers were blameless. Toyota has been spiking their Kool-Aid for 30 years. Like lemmings, their customers are trained to do the 3 month maintenance religiously. When dealers started discussing amongst themselves that they were all experiencing engine problems with a wide spectrum of customer types, the hue and cry finally rose to Corporate's ears.

GM is dropping a program that it never started on a model they don't even sell yet?

Wisdom and the internet.

Yeah the Saturn program.

May as well be over on GMI and put up with the bored ricecar salesmen and zit faced kids talking about the cars their uncle drives.

Just to put a little sense of perspective here, the Malibu was not a '70s and early '80s volume success because it had 18" wheels or an 18 speed transmission: it was a success because it was roomy, rode decently, was priced right, got decent gas mileage and fit the most family's budgets in a time when larger vehicles were waning.

Choice is great, but GM needs to be careful about a $30k Malibu: that is Allure and Impala territory. Let the new G-6 have 18" wheels and focus the Malibu on being the best mid-size family hauler out there in a time when the SUV/minivan markets are trembling. Market the hell out of that, and GM will have a sales success, without having to fleet them out.

When my daughter started to drive, she couldn't drive my dealership demos. We took over an incredible lease on a Canyon, (yes, i have inside info - LOL) split the monthly payment, and she'll drive that until the lease is up. When that's done she's decided to purchase a good used car that she'll take to college. I promised to match her dollar for dollar, so she'll get something decent, but still feel like she bought it herself.

That's a good plan. I've seen parents do that: lease a Cobalt for the spawn while they are in college, with the promise that if the marks are good, the folks will pay it out and 'give' it to them; if the marks are bad, then they are walking after college. Same thing if they get a lot of tickets or infractions: walking.

I had to drive my mother's (11 year old) '67 Newport in yellow when I got my license. More Tremclad rust paint then original paint left. Even had duct tape on it! That was an embarassment on wheels!

That doesn't sound like a GMPP warranty to me. GMPP does not offer an 8 year warranty. We've tried 'after market' warranties and they are a HORROR. There are lots of things they don't cover and just getting an adjuster to show up can cost a lot of time.

Yeah, but here's the kicker: All that has to happen is for the media and import buyers to start believing that Toyota trucks are better than domestic trucks, they don't REALLY have to be better.

This same thing has happened in minivans, SUVs and a large part of the car market. As happy as I am to see GM doing well and as competitive as the new products are, I still believe Detroit will lose the market and very bad thing lie ahead for our industry.

What pisses me off the most is that Detroit has now BECOME a victum of both our society and the pop culture that runs it. They've passed the point of self motivated rescue; either the public gets it or the public doesn't. I'm willing to bet that the media will help the public 'not get it' as much as possible. The wrting is already on the wall with the countless Toyota reliability cover ups and the constant "good, but not good enough" ever-so-romantic reviews of GM product that frankly, kicks the competitions ass.

That reflects the media: they rate Korean higher than domestic and it's becoming that way everywhere... The same will happen with Chinese offerings, better or not, they will be BILLED as better.

Don't forget the 'herd mentality.' I routinely walk or drive through Rosedale (arguably Canada's 'richest' district, just north of the city core) and 80% of the vehicles are BMW, Mercedes, etc., due to their close proximity to those dealers and the herd mentality. In most neighborhoods downtown, the imports vastly outnumber Detroit. But that is Toronto.

Once you leave the city, Detroit rules. I was at my buddy's cottage for the weekend, and all the farms and homes there drive Detroit metal - upwards of 80%. We boated to a lakeside resort, populated largely by tourists from Toronto, and again, lots of Toyotas and Hondas in the restaurant parking lot.

People cannot think for themselves. It is a depressing fact. As the imports become more successful and open more locations in smaller communities, their numbers can only hope to go up. It sickens me, but we are witnessing the splintering of the market. As has been discussed before, GM will settle out around 20% market share, with Toyota probably around 15-18%, while the rest will all be around 10%. Those are my predictions. The Press will eventually grow bored of Toyota. Toyota is already juggling too many balls in the air.

Sigh. Sitting in one car for 10 minutes does not an expert make. I would certainly hope that GM's technical people spent more than ten minutes inside the Accord/Camry and others when deciding on what interiors to go with on the new Malibu.

GM should not EVER make the mistake of trying to out Japanese or out-German the competition. Notwithstanding lots of self- appointed experts, there are many, many people who do not like the LOOK of Japanese cars, or German cars for that matter. If GM must, Pontiac or Buick should go after those anything-imported-is-better people. Malibu is first and foremost and AMERICAN car. Should GM be ashamed of that?

The VW has the much better looking interior than the Accord, IMO; however, it is still cold and, well, too Teutonic. I have had many customers shop VW and Honda, then buy the Impala because they thought the ride/handling of the others was too 'harsh,' or the look was too 'cold.'

I, too, spent a whole 10 minutes in the Malibu (base car) and was blown away by the interior. The two tone adds such a luxurious quality to it. I would not shy away from stacking it up against the Accord, but then I never shied away from stacking the Impala up against the Accord either. The average person does not rub their cheeks (or any other parts of their body) along the dashboard, or try to hump the cracks in door panels. They leave that to the 'experts' to whine about.

Despite brainwashing by a more than jaded Press, GM does many things right, and either the marketing boys or the dealers have to point that out. As long as the Malibu is marketed correctly (and I am holding my breath), it should be a huge hit.

All I know is that I built one of those scale models of a '69 Grand Prix, which I loved and I lovingly referred to it as my Grand Pricks. (Okay, I was 11 at the time). I couldn't figure out why my dad snickered every time I said it. He thought I was mispronouncing my model car.

Well, I thought I would introduce myself. My name is Kevin, I live in the Baltimore, Maryland area, and I'm 22 years old. Do you have a section on military vehicles? I have been looking but have not seen one. Would be good to get one if you don't have one, with all the Iraq vets online these days. Just something to think about.

Here is my ugly mug!

Me and my girl!

Awww, isn't that nice, he has sent us a pic of himself and his sister together.......oh, girlfriend.......

Welcome aboard!

This thread has seriously become hijacked, but I want to make one point clear: I doubt any of you guys live in a condo or apartment, or work in a highrise. Automatic lights are a must. I just bought an Optra 5 (okay, go ahead and laugh, but at 0% financing for 72 months, free sunroof, employee pricing and 700 visa points, I am paying $35 a month LESS than leasing a base Civic and my dog can shed all he wants without my having to listen to the manager(s) bitch and moan ) and this car does NOT have automatic headlights. It is a huge nuisance, both in the building where I live (try remembering to turn on the lights for safety, snap on the seatbelt, reach for sunglasses and crank the wheel hard to port all at once!) and in the building where my gym is, which is populated by many blue rinsers in expensive cars and they cannot drive.

When driving around a 3 level underground garage, where idiots park behind every pilar, it would be comforting to know that EVERYONE'S headlights were on. Sadly, that is not the case.

In the GTA (Greater Toronto Area), pop. 5 million, more than HALF the populace live in condos or apartment buildings.

Choice is great, but the average person has the brain power of an eggplant (no offense to eggplants out there). I don't want to hit some moron because he/she is too f'ing lazy to turn on their headlights when they are underground.

A friend's cottage tomorrow. Drinking. BBQ. Drinking. Depending on the mood, maybe a huge club event on Sunday night in the City, or I'll just stay at my friend's cottage, drinking. When we sober up (if!), terrorize the lake in his powerboat. Scare the neighbors with my Speedo. Give the same neighbors more reasons to snicker about Ellen DeGeneres, Elton John, Barry Manilow and any other entertainer that their feeble minds can conjure up to loudly talk about when we are all sitting on the dock.

(Just because they are too huge and saggy to wear anything but trunks, is no reason to get all jealous and bitchy that I can still wear a Speedo at 46 and NOT get ticketted by the fashion police!)

Ah, cottage life.............

Yes but too many times (not all times) those features they sink money into are dubious at best (one person's opinion....MINE....)

Auto headlights? I'm not against them.....but I just don't find trouble in turning the lights on myself.

Battery run-down? Good....but most cars have that now.

Delayed locks? AAARRRRGGGHHH. Hate them. Always reprogram them to "off." I hate hitting the lock button....and nothing happens....then I stand there to wait to hear the "click" to reconfirm to myself that the car IS locked. Plus, why really have them when most people use the remote these days to lock the car?

Automatic Volume? Hate that too. Let ME adjust the volume to levels that I desire. I hate jamming to a great song at freeway speeds and then everytime you slow down cause of traffic or whatnot, the volume drops. I know you can adjust the levels that it changes....but this is a useless feature to me....and I've seen alot of cars with it ironically.

I can't wait to see you criticize the Pearly Gates...if you get there. How the hell can anyone bitch about delayed locks? Program the damned horn to toot once when the doors do lock. Wow. Just wow. I bet you were like dad, always complained that nobody needed power windows or a mirror on the passenger side.

Auto volume rocks. What the hell setting did you have it on? It's not like the difference if 50 db or anything....Sheesh. Yeah, but Nav and Xenon lights are SOOOOO important.

I suspect a lot of GM's marketing is driven by the so-called experts of the dealer body. If the dealers were not behind this program (ie., going out to lease or rent or whatever an Accord or Camry for the show room), then the plan would have failed anyway. I know insurance regulations would be a nightmare up here in Canada. We tried it with 'overnight' test drives a few years ago, but it had to be structured as a rental, to keep the lawyers happy.

And don't forget, too: there are quite a few traitors in the midst. Many, many dealers already own Toyota or Honda franchises and have been recently forced to spend a lot of money on new buildings, upgrades, etc. to handle all the newer/bigger models. You guys should see the sheer audaceous size of some of the Honda and Toyota stores that have expanded recently in the Toronto area. These multiple brand dealers (and you know who you are) would not want to see this happen either.

Let's face it: if your 30 year old Pontiac building was paid for, but you had a $5M mortgage on your Honda building - would you want to see this plan succeed?

Just saying, is all................

I think GM needs to shove it up the ass of Toyota and Honda.

Where did you find a picture of my mother-in-law?

That's my mother! (Doesn't that make us cousins, or something?)

Ah..so that's what battery protection is... my Jeep has that, the interior and exterior lights will go off after a few minutes if left on.

With the Impala, wouldn't the automatic lights have to be set in the automatic position instead of off to work? I remember specifically turning the lights on..and remember, Avis rentals tend to be not loaded, so maybe it didn't have the auto lights.

With the Infiniti, maybe the lights were set to off..at least w/ my Jeep, if the lights are turned to off, they don't automatically come on..they have to be in the automatic position.

The last generation Impala, Malibu and others simply had automatic lights only. I have to admit that at times that was a pain (try leaving a Drive-in ) and the only way to turn the lights 'off' was to put the parking brake on and restart the engine! The current Malibu/Cobalt/Impala, etc. have the automatic position on the steering wheel stalk, so you can actually over-ride the lights if desired.

Many Japanese vehicles (and Chryslers, for that matter) never had automatic lights, even in 2007. The higher models may have it, or as part of a package, but it was not always standard. My '91 Caprice had it, for Gawd's Sake!

Battery run-down protection puts all the interior lights on a timer so that when the ignition is switched off, after 20 minutes interior lights (reading lights and such) will go off. Great feature, especially in minivans/SUVs for families. Automatic headlights (which the '04 Impala had, so I am not sure what Moltar is getting at) are a no-brainer: a cheap feature to add to a vehicle and very important for safety. I almost slammed into an Infiniti in my underground garage the other day - not only was I amazed that someone would pay $50k for a car like that, I was more amazed that its lights didn't work automatically.

As I have tirelessly ranted about here before, GM provides a lot of features (like automatic headlights, battery run-down protection, delayed locks, starter lock out, automatic volume on radios, etc, etc. that are great when someone lives with the vehicle. The trouble is convincing the hacks at the car magazines, CR, etc. that these items are of more every day importance to the average driver than whether someone's weenie will fit between the gaps in the door panels.

Couldn't the same be said about domestic trucks?

And what exactly needs to be better about the Fit/Yaris/Versa? Just because they have a 30 year lead in the segment doesn't mean they have any sort of technology that all of the other manufacturers don't.

That's right, cherry pick my remarks and then deflect. Like, Toyota (Hino) hasn't been building trucks for the past 30 years? There has never been a U.S. built subcompact. The Vega and Pinto were smash hits, but Detroit has never taken this market seriously because there was no money in it, and until recently there was no sense of urgency. Japan Inc. has been building compacts and subcompacts for a few decades and they, too, are treating this market with disdain.

We've all seen amazing show cars from nearly every manufacturer in this segment (not just the GM triplets in New York earlier this year), yet when the subcompacts go into production, they are fitted with cheaper plastics, generally boring interiors, lacklustre performance and indifferent styling. If North Americans are ever to be gotten off their big car/truck addiciton, they will need to be lured with great looking/riding small cars. There are tons of them in Europe and Brazil. Why not here? Why is it assumed that people only buy small cars because they are poor, cheap or stupid? We either get the ridiculous (Smart), cheap (Aveo/Rio, etc) or over-priced (Mini). How about a fun to drive, great looking small car that people with money and brains wouldn't mind driving?