haypops

Nice looking car. Reminds me of:

camaro outsold aveo and cobalt combined. take that small car fans!

How about if you include the Cobalt wagon (HHR)?

You are right they have not. Nor will they.

Chrysler is in Chpt 11 bankrptcy protection, GM is not. Perhaps the list will come out June 1?

Not good, I doubt we will get a $h! list. I just want to know if my small town dealer got the shaft. If they did, I will be pretty pissed.

Here is the $h! list for Chrylser:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections...ealers_list.pdf

Now the question is will someone buy it?

There are numerous bona fide offers for Saturn including:

Penske said to be considering bid for GM's Saturn

Almost half of that 6.1% GDP decline is due to decreases in inventories. Decreases in inventories are actually a sign of economic recovery. No guarantees here however.

The author is correct, however, about the significance of run up in oil prices. This is the which came first the chicken or the egg question turned on its head. Mortgage defaults didn't cause oil prices to increase, but the opposite is very likely true.

I know most of you hate the CAFE rules. Without them, the oil price buildup would have been sooner and steeper. "Democracy is the worse form of government except for all the rest". CAFE is the best form of oil price control except for rationing which no one seems to have the guts to consider.

The entire point of bond holders is that they know they are taking a huge risk. If a company defaults on its loans, the way it can have them forgiven is by losing MASSIVE amounts of equity in their company. That is how it works... especially with start up firms.

Chrysler is no start up firm and the classical "pay off" for bond holders is during liquidation. Normaly bond holders are not the ones taking the huge risk as that would be first common stock holders and then prefered stock holders. The question really boils down to what Chrysler's assets (real estate, tools, old offic furniture) would be valued at in this economy(not much).

Hmm, this would make VW and FIAT the largest competitors in Europe... i could see FIAT leveraging their new found scales of economies + Saab dealer networks to start selling in the US again...

interesting...

Isn't that what they have all those Chrysler dealers for(to sell in the U.S.)?

Fiat eyes combined Chrysler, Opel company

So does this mean NA Chrysler dealers might be selling Opel Insignas and Buick will be selling Vauxhall Insignas and NA Chevrolet dealers will be selling Malibu Insignas?

I think that this offer to "buy" Pontiac is way too late to be believable. The offers for Saturn seem to be from known entities, presented in a timely manner. I think it is also fair to assume that the shedding of brands is designed to accomplish something larger. I assume that this is to shed unprofitable models, architectures (kappa?), and factories (Wilmington?). If this consortium did somehow win the Pontiac brand, it would end affixed to some old mail jeeps from AM General or perhaps a nice Checker Cab (I actually like that last idea).

I wonder how predictive of GM's future these details are? Perhaps the UAW becoming stake holders and giving concessions will be similar. Of course there would be no Fiat ownership. Another difference would be that GM's debt isn't secured but Chrysler's is (or so I read).

Death of Pontiac while sad is not unexpected. It would be very possible for the G8 to be moved over to Buick so that it becomes the New Grand Natioanl. just a thought.

It would be ironic if the New Independent/Boutique Saturn ended up importing the G8 for sale as their halo car. If they end up selling a bunch of Fiats or Renaults as imagined by some, then they would have the CAFE credits to pull it off where others could not.

Al Gore has traveled the world creating panic for years now, yet he flies personal jets and drives SUVs. (What's funny is that people are still dumb enough to believe in him)

I don't know about Al Gore's SUv, but if it is anything like the stories about his use of personal jets and his home's electrical use, then its just another false slur.

This discussion has become difficult because of the greater integration of GME into the GM worldwide picture. However, maybe we can split good Opel and bad Opel apart for the discussion.

Bad Opel V6 engine = 58 degree 3l. v6 that nearly killed Cadillac and did kill Saturn

Bad Opel 4 cylinder engine; anything before good Opel via the Saturn patented loss foam casting technique used on the Ecotec.

Bad Opel transmissions any thing automatic before the new good Opel GM hydramatic inspired automatics.

The European car market is even more crowded than our own. Separating out Opel from GMDAT will give the latter more room to move upmarket slightly at lower cost.

None of this means I am really for the split up; just pointing to some advantages.

I read that the federal government was making a record purchase of GM, Ford and Chrysler vehicles. I wonder if these vehicles will be built befor e the closures or after?

When did you invent a people-shrinker????

Get real! Small cars are forced on the public by penalties from government regs!

People are not getting smaller, they in fact are getting bigger! Until you can invent a pill to make

people like being stuffed like sardines in a can, small cars will only succeed by economic penalties.

click here

As for Keeping Pontiac restricted to just the Solstice and G8 while Buick gets it together, I basically agree - except that GM should bring other G8 variants here pronto.

I wonder if the govt. auto board isn't putting to much emphasis on number of brands and dealers and too little on factories and architectures. Can GM really afford Wilmington and the Kappa architecture to produce a couple of hundred cars/month. Likewise exactly what does the G8 contribute to U.S. employment and our manufacturing base if its imported from Australia.

I can't imagine doing this deal if I'm Fiat, but Marchionne has proven to be a clever, resourceful CEO, so my guess is that the value in Chrysler (Jeep, trucks, minivans, LXs) is sufficient to make the deal make sense.

If I were him, I'd approach Saturn about the dealer group to sell in the US and wait it out in Europe until one of the German or Japanese companies come calling...because they will before the recession is over.

I think you are probably right. If Marchionne can get a killer deal; U.S. govt financing and dept and labor relief, then he will do the deal much like GM did with Daewoo. If its not a steal, he'll be looking at Saturn as an outlet for his cars. So its either Chrysler or Saturn that will be about as American as Toyota.

In my opinion the reason we have so many posts arguing this proposal is that it is just too close of a call. The Chevy only fraction is overestimating the cost of keeping GMC and the GMC fans are kidding themselves if they really believe most GMC truck buyers wouldn't get a Chevy if they had too. GMC's biggest plus is it makes the BPG dealers much more profitable.

Isn't GM partnered with SAIC to build the Buicks in China? Would this not just be ending US operations and moving production 100% off shore? I am only asking here...

I read that the Chinese response to the world wide financial screw ups/recession is to purchase "things of value" outside of China. China is loaded with cash but concerned about currency devaluations etc. It is this "theory" that makes me think there might be something real to the rumors of a possible Chinese purchase of Buick.

america... land of the greedy, home of the ignorant.

True! However, worse yet is that the greedy are proud of that fact, and the ignorant are proud of both the greedy and themselves.

Ok?

I feel so much better now that the same people handling the AIG turn around are now giving GM direction.

auto nation guru thinks the board is doing a fine job

I am all legs with short body so at 6'6" tall I end up having to really dip down to get into an HHR. I

I get it. When all is said and done the HHR is a fine small car, but a small one none the less.

.

This is a major reason you see middle age people going with cross overs, the HHR is just too small, too low to the ground and over all just a kids car. NOT an adult or family car.

My opinion and I am keeping to it.

I have a bad back and knees. As a matter of fact I just accessorized my HHR with a handicap plate. I don't even have to pay at parking meters. The HHR is almost as easy to get in as my Sonoma was, and much easier than the my grand am. Also it does fit large people as I am over 300 lbs now. The HHR is a surprisingly well thought out car.

Most people expect luggage room in a vehicle to somewhat match its passenger capacity. I don't know of any small 7 passenger vehicles that have done well recently. The Mazda 5's yearly sales increased from 13,717 (2007) to 22,021 (2008). These cars are highly discounted and sell for a song. Suzuki XL7 is a perennial sales looser too. Perhaps one of the Korean models is doing better? I think it is unfortunate that the short wheelbase minivans have fallen out of favor, but i guess the market has spoken.