cp-the-nerd

"...we expect this all-new 2018 Accord will make people rethink the midsize sedan," said Jeff Conrad.

I hate marketing fluff. In what way does this rethink any aspect of the midsize sedan?

CVT? No.
1.5T? No.
Drop the V6? No.
10 speed auto? You're really splitting hairs to say yes compared to 8-9 speeds.

Nissan caught criticism for doing the same thing and pumping their sales superiority in the media. I haven't seen Ford bragging about it, though.

5 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

The dozens of people running autocrosses on Sunday morning.

Please tell me that's sarcasm. This package is totally overkill for autocross.

They could at least massage the intake and exhaust equipment for 220 horsepower or so. The car's power is way too underwhelming to warrant a giant wing, Pilot Sport tires, brembos, and aggressive suspension. It would be like if GM put V-equipment and a manual trans on the ATS 2.5L. WHO IS THIS FOR.

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

While I too want a 3.0T, I don't think it will matter that much.  The Fusion Sport is fast, but it's not a great handler (for the price). The current GS handles very well but doesn't have the engine to match it. Even just the 3.6 would probably be sufficient in reality.

I don't think the 3.0T will be used though, but if they do offer it, watch for it to show up in the XTS and XT5.

The 3.0T can't come soon enough for the XT5 as well! Should have been ready from the get go, whether as a simple engine package or a V-Sport brand, it seems like a no brainer to push ATP higher and steal sales from higher-end established luxury crossovers.

If they want to be mentioned in the same breath as the Fusion Sport, it better be maximum output and crack into the 13s. Another mid 14 second GS is not going to cut it. A 9-speed Malibu 2.0T recently ran a 14.3 for Motor Trend, and people just shrug at that car. This needs to be faster in a meaningful way and deliver a balanced luxury package.

Personally, I think it's a mistake for GM not to offer the 3.0T as Buick's top engine for the Regal GS, an AWD Lacrosse Grand National flagship car, or an Enclave Super/GS/Avenir trim.

Haven't been a fan of Incubus releases in the past 5+ years, but I heard this song at some point recently and thought it was pretty great.
 

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

About that Catera...

The Middle East got even BETTER versions of this car!

The Lumina SS

These had the Corvette's venerable 5.7 liter V8 under the hood in SS form! I don't know if it was the LT1 or the LS1, but yeah...V8!

Maybe Cadillac should have gone the V8 direction in North America too with the Catera.

Anybody read Arabic?  Anyway...there are numbers in the article down at the link that makes sense to my English eyes! Maybe they make sense to your English eyes too...just click on the link!

http://www.motiontrends.com/2001/m10/features/holden/holden.shtml

That's the Holden Commodore! It was also sold in coupe form called the Monaro, which was sold in the US as the Pontiac GTO. It had an LS1 until 2005 when they dropped the 6.0L LS2 under the hood.

Subsequent generations of the Commodore were sold stateside as well–I think you know where I'm going with this–as the Pontiac G8 and finally the Chevy SS!

My wife was talked into a 72-month car loan even though it was unnecessary. I objected outright, but their financial guy assured us that it was the same interest rate and gave us a 60 month figure if we wanted to pay it off sooner at no loss.

8 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You've got DI and I don't in my Encore... but from my observation, I get no change in performance or fuel economy.  I nearly always fill up at Costco, so I'm staying in the same brand and just switching from 87 to 93. 

Depends how they tuned the high and low octane spark advance tables. The 2010-11 model year Cruze 1.4T actually took advantage of premium gas. They revised the tune and a few other things to bump up FE ratings for 2012+ and for some reason that included dumbing down the spark advance.

Fuel economy update:

EPA rating: 28/37/31 (for premier trim)

Car has a few hundred miles on it, still on the first tank of gas:
Average - 35 mpg (about 90% highway going 65-75 mph)
Best 50 miles - 39.3 mpg

I'm curious what this will get after the break-in oil change filled with Mobil 1 synthetic. We'll experiment with premium gas at some point, too.

16 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Most modern cars punch above their EPA weight when it comes to fuel economy anyways....V6 please!

Exactly. The Impala with the previous gen LFX V6 and 6-speed auto (with a 3800 lb curb weight) is widely reported to get low 30s MPG highway, and that was rated 18/28. The Lacrosse has the new V6, 9-speed, start/stop, cylinder deactivation, and is about 100 lbs lighter. If you're not getting low-mid 30s on the highway, you're doing something wrong.

There's no way in hell I would sacrifice the sweet new 3.6L V6 (21/31 mpg) for a mild-hybrid 4-banger for the sake of fuel economy similar to the last gen system (24/35 mpg). It would need to be more like 27/37 to make a solid FE argument.

On 6/4/2017 at 0:31 AM, regfootball said:

Congrats, that would be a hard choice, the Encore is a sweet vehicle (especially with the interior updates) and the Cruze hatch is great too.  I love the wheels on yours!  Great color too.!  Enjoy the Cruze hatch, glad you got a hatch!  I've seen a few now out and about.  

Had the new Regal been out by now I would have said try the Regal hatchback too just for kicks, even if it were some more $$$$.

 

I think the new Regal sportback (the sedan/hatch) is awesome, would love one as a DD to garage my SS in several years. However, I won't buy 1st model year vehicles and the price would have been significantly beyond my wife's comfort zone. Too bad Buick didn't bring over a hatchback successor to the Verano, that might have hit all the right notes!

On 6/4/2017 at 9:17 AM, Cmicasa the Great said:

Beautiful choice.. much better than any Japanese Mazda. Very impressed with the fit and finish. Looked at one when my GF needed help deciding on a new Malibu. She got it but seriously considered a Cruze Hatch. Maybe I missed it but why did U buy from a PA dealer instead of a MD one?

Thanks! We bought from our local MD Chevy dealer. We had this one brought to us from a dealership in PA because it had all the options my wife wanted.

8 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

The question isn't if it is a great value and a great performance car, but if it is up to its competitors.  I would maintain the money is better spent elsewhere.

I repeat: I think the new Si might seem underwhelming on paper, but the jury is out on real-world performance.

I'm not saying it's better or worse than anything, I'm saying it's too early to write it off. The current Civic is a very different machine than the recent generation.

I think the new Si might seem underwhelming on paper, but the jury is out on real-world performance. The mass-market tuned 1.5T already punches above its weight, the Civic sport hatchback equipped with a manual and rated 180 hp/177 lb-ft ran 7 sec 0-60 and a solid 15.2 @ 94 mph in an instrumented test by C&D, other examples have managed sub-7 second sprints like others have mentioned. This could potentially be the fastest Si yet, and a great driving performance car.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-honda-civic-hatchback-15t-manual-test-review

On 5/31/2017 at 10:15 PM, smk4565 said:

The problem with all these full size sedans, is what does a Cadenza do that an Optima Limited doesn't?  The Optima with a turbo is probably quicker and rides/handles similar.  The Optima seats 5, probably has most of the same features, same infotainment, and the Optima is about 4 inches shorter, so it isn't like you give up loads of interior room.   It is just a tough segment for any automaker as most people don't want a large sedan, and even if they do, they probably don't see it worth paying $10k extra to get an Avalon or Cadenza over a Camry or Optima.

I always thought the Cadenza had a nice interior.  But I wouldn't spend $45k on a Kia sedan, it isn't that nice.

Optima turbos are slow. Like 7+ seconds to 60 and a mid-15 1/4 mile while sounding like a blender. I'd definitely take a Cadenza over the Optima Limited.

14 minutes ago, ykX said:

Yes, by a very low margin while Fusion is significantly worse then Camry and Accord going by the index which I admitted is better.

The whole argument started when you said that in other countries they tend to buy domestic cars more.  The situation is different due to government involvement and due to places of engineering and manufacturing.

Don't understand me wrong I am all for buying US made products, I am engineer and my livelihood depends on manufacturing and engineering staying in US, but Toyota and Honda invest a lot in the US and it is simply not fair to disregard that.

 

Well neither of us have proof one way or another that foreign markets would naturally buy non-domestic brands in similar proportion to their own product. I would use the logic that people rooting for sports teams don't equally distribute among teams, they largely support local first, successful teams second, and the rest are down to random preferences. The D3 may have been "losers" for 20 years, but they've been a "winning team" for nearly the past decade.

And yes, the argument is about brands as a whole, so when domestics dominate the Kogod list, it's a relevant point. Camry and Accord are just smaller pieces of a bigger picture.

10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

OK, they just SUCK SUCK SUCK and the amount of viewing of these so called commercials are just pathetic.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMMTsbfETvrSwwcvB7VE-iw

This is the Cadillac channel on YouTube and it is not impressive at all. The whole Willingness to Dare BLOWS! So far nothing is a dare from Cadillac.

I almost downvoted you reflexively for sharing that garbage! Haha. The best "ads" for Cadillac are Motor Trend videos of the CTS-V, CTS V-Sport, and ATS-V.

18 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I have not even seen those ads you mentioned. I saw they were spending money on multiple page ads in magazines focused at the 1% crowd. Not something most people will see and their online social media ads suck big time.

Agree, not sure what the hell is going on with Cadillac advertising but I question just who made the choice in agencies and how they are being managed and rated on performance as right now it SUCKS!

You can probably search youtube for Laurence Fishburne Cadillac ads for the V2 spots, and for the ATS commercials just type the ad campaign I mentioned.

4 minutes ago, ykX said:

Don't compare apples to oranges, I compared Accord,Camry to Malibu and Fusion.

 Also it is not 13 places, there are three cars in the first place with the same rating, eight cars in the fourth place with the same rating.  

The difference in rating between Malibu and Accord is 1.5% (82.5 vs 81).  If you gave an example might as well stick to it.

I also would like to add that if it would not be for the competition in the US market we would still be driving $h! boxes US automakers used to build not that long ago.

 

YOU started the "American Made" argument by pointing out Camry and Accord were number 1 and 2 overall with the first American car of any kind coming in at 6th. It's totally fair game for me to retort by pointing out how many American cars are actually better for the domestic economy.

And yes, I pointed out the tie system. Fact is, 13 cars are ahead of the Honda Accord in 4 grouped ties. Most scored lists would not call the Accord "5th place." If you tie someone for a gold medal in the olympics, the next place doesn't get silver, they get bronze. The Accord is 14th by normal metrics because 13 models scored better.

Now you want to say "yeah well, compare to midsize cars." Fine, both the current and previous gen Malibu are better for America.

4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Very true and I totally agree. The CTS is so understated in how good it is. 

Course it would help if they did a wee bit more marketing on their cars and showed some excitement of driving them to the world.

Cadillac marketing is terrible. There was a time from 2008-2013 when GM made compelling Cadillac ads, and the sales were pretty impressive. The gen 2 CTS-V ads were awesome, and I remember when the ATS came out, they ran a campaign called "ATS vs the world" or something to that effect, with the ATS ripping through beautiful foreign landscapes to showcase car features. People actually ASKED ME about he ATS because of those ads!

Now it seems like they have a new ad agency every 6 months and the ads are either underwhelming commercial break fodder or dorky and embarrassing like the skinny nerd walking down the street in front of a red ATS coupe.

5 minutes ago, ykX said:

I agree that this is a better index to go by.  

So going by that index Camry is number eight, Accord is number five, Malibu is number four, Fusion is 39.  

So while top places are dominated by GM and Ford the most popular Toyota and Honda cars in top places as well.

 

The Accord is "#5" because they don't count ties as subsequent places. The Accord is behind 13 American cars:

Enclave
Traverse
Acadia
F150
Corvette
Equinox
Impala
Malibu
Malibu (prev. gen "classic")
Yukon
Escalade
Lacrosse
Tahoe/Suburban

And then the Camry is after, coincidentally, another 13 American cars. It's not close. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad automakers like Honda and Toyota create American jobs with their factories, I just have serious pet peeve about the "made in America" misnomer.