SS427

6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Some historian correct me if I'm wrong.... didn't CAMI try this "preferential treatment on the production of a specific nameplate" stunt with the 5th Gen Camaro also?

It goes back to the 4th Gen Camaro and the St. Therese Quebec plant. GM figured they were free when they killed the nameplate after the F-Body died (they even tore down the plant), but I guess there were some rumblings so GM tossed them a bone with the 5th Gen. 

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

it's still the most cohesive large SUV design-wise of them all, but I for one will miss the signature Buick waterfall grille.

The Enclave will come in four trim levels Base, Essence, Premium, and Avenir. Only the Avenir gets the mesh grill the others will retain the classic waterfall grill.

GM Authority - 2018 Buick Enclave Attempts To Define Full-Size Crossover Elegance

Here is my 2009 Camaro 9C1 edition, no light-bars yet. But this is the "un-marked" edition. I might work on a marked edition along with othe chops. Hey I am still learning this but seriuously how is it?

I added steel Impala 9C1 wheels, shaved off the spoiler, added a red lower body strip with 9C1 badges and a black trim.

NOT FUNNY, THIS IS NOT FUNNY AT ALL, YOU GOT ME SCARED SH TLESS HERE, the thought of local PD and State Troopers having this, is scarier than another Tarentino film.

How about a Formula or a Firebird 400 edition, or even (dare I say it) a Trans Am edition.

I read Hudson's post differently then most of you did. He was pointing out how much of everyones complaints about well intentioned people who are concerned about the environment (greenies) have been ugly and unfair. It should be a little more obvious now because "the enemy of my enemy is my Friend".

Uh, What?!?

Or the enviro-freaks could get off our f@#king backs and let us drive what we want.

Ya its to bad a whole bunch of them just took over Congress and Senate back in November.

In addition to the previously menioned Sintra and GL8 and Chinese Regal and LaCrosse, didn't you miss the Chevrolet Impala from your list?

Holy $h! I did OOPS, and I goofed on the Cutlass Convertable also, but what can ya say I did that list all from memory.

:AH-HA_wink: If only we could. The problem would be there wouldn't BE any weathermen because they'd all get sued.

There is a difference between mitigating expectations and drumming up hype.

The media (and many on this site) are acting like Hydrogen cars are just a few years away. I've read "Hybrids are just a stop-gap for Hydrogen" on this site more than once. Honda, in spite of having a street legal fuel cell car some 4 years ago, and already having leased hydrogen cars starting over two years ago, and likely being the leader in this technology, is saying 2018 to downplay expectations. On the other hand, GM, who hasn't even put out a hybrid sedan, and who's hybrids to date have been completely uncompetitive (perhaps due to the fact that they have been downplaying hybrids and have barely registered a pulse in this 8 year old market), has announced a vehicle which they have no idea when it will ever be feasible.

GM isn't alone in this because they have some unique technology (as we have seen, their technology roadmap involved components already being used in Toyotas and Fords... and probably would be in use in GM vehicles as well if their hybrids weren't so poor), they are alone in this because everyone else knows this isn't feasible. Anyone who can do simple math can demonstrate it. Even GM isn't denying it.

Or maybe it is because GM tried using hybrid tech in vechicles that could actully benefit from its use like full size trucks, or city buses, instead of grandstanding with a overpriced hey look at me econobox that does not make any real sense when you do the math ($30,000 for a car that is the same size as a Cobalt Sedan and gets basically the same mileage, come on lets be realistic here), but GM's way did'nt please the selfish treehuggers (they need a tax break for their overpriced Prius!!!), so people are going ape over the Prius throwing thier money away when they could get more value with a Corolla or a Camry if they had their hearts set on a Toyota, GM has not been uncompetitive, the people in the market have been irrational and in many cases anti-GM (or even anti-American brands) regardless of how good or bad the product may or may not be, because it is the fashionable thing to do.

California regs for passenger cars is Tier 2 Bin 5, too...

Yes, but California also has CARB (California Air Research Board?) that adds additional emissions requirements to cars and trucks beyond Bin 5 Tier 2, which make their regualtions the most restrictive of any state in the union, I had heard that New York and Mass. were going to follow Cali's lead in the near future if they haven't already.

While I lament those fish-eyed headlamps, the car is not ugly at all. If they just did something different with the headlights to go with the new grill and got rid of some of those granny-panny rims this car would look very respectable imo.

Ya you know you are in trouble when the company (Jaguar) who styling you are trying to emulate (copy?) says the look just doesn't work anymore (see 2007 Jaguar C-XF Concept).

Your post is a bunch of sentimental foolishness and incredibly rude and childish.

Ya but, each one of us could probably come up with an equally sappy or sentimental story as to why we like GM, he had enough BALLS to post his story about Chrysler, so insted of being a shameless wuss and hiding behind insults, take the time to listen to the point he was trying to make. If anyone here is being rude and childish it is you.

It's awesome that GM is doing this but I would of used the Silverado, but maybe GM thought that 4 awards were enough ( If you count "Top 5 Truck/SUV by C&D).

( If you count "Top 5 Truck/SUV by C&D) . . . . . . in which the new Silverado did beat the new Blundra.

GM is changing. So much has changed for the better. In the process of those changes for the better, names , divisions and cars have been dropped. It has upset many and more. In the end we all hope it is for the greater good of GM. I drove the current Grand Prix for 12 days when my first Ninety Eight was totaled. It was a great riding car. The interior was a different story.. I knew they were trying to make it like the 1970's Grand Prixs. These cars have had long runs. I remember the heyday when they were rear drive before.

Maybe in time people will fondly remember them. I remember when they came out in 1988. That platform is almost twenty years old. So many cars have been on that platform too. It is funnny how it grew in size. The first W Bodies were 188 inches long. The last ones are 198-200 inches long.

You hate to see a product go when you liked it or whatever. Was it really competitive still?

We will see what things bring. Everything is coming full circle.

Chevrolet:

Lumina Sedan (Two Generations)

Lumina Coupe (One Generation)

Lumina APV

Monte Carlo (Two Generations, One 2nd Gen Restyle)

Venture

Uplander

Pontiac:

Grand Prix Sedan (Three Generations)

Grand Prix Coupe (Two Generations, One 1st Gen restyle)

Trans Sport (Two Generations)

Montana (Two Generations)

Aztec

Oldsmobile:

Cutlass Supreme Sedan (One Restyle)

Cutlass Supreme Coupe (One Restyle)

Cutlass Supreme Convertible

Silhouette

Intrigue

Buick:

Regal Sedan (Two Generations, at least one mild 1st gen restyle)

Regal Coupe (2 mild restyles)

Rendezvous

Lacrosse (Restyle with Lacrosse Super)

Terazza

Saturn:

Relay

Well that's 21 vehicles on one platform in 20 years and that is not counting different trim levels (LS, GT, CXS, etc.) performance versions (Z36, GXP, SS) and special edition's (Pace Cars, etc.).

While the LaCrosse and the Impala will continue through 2008 MY at Oshawa GM Canada plant, the curtain will fall on both the Grand Prix and the Monte Carlo at mid-year, or December 2007. That's 10 or so more months of production on these cars. I guess that's to retool the portion of the Oshawa plant that will put out RWD cars. Some of you will be ecstatic. I just wish they had done a better job with these cars in the first place, allowing them to complete the full model year. Oh well.

Ding Dong Roger Smith is dead Roger Smith is FINALLY dead, or at least the last tortured remnants (the GM10's, W-cars, etc.) of his failed rule are finally going away.

Quoted from hyperv6:

"I know there were many factors involved with the Fiero but the fact they built 140K the first year killed future sales and demand in the future. Pontiac really only wanted to sell 30K but the plant they had could put out 250K cars a year. Pontiac had hope the GM 80 F body replacment would take up the extra capacity when sales reached the 30K range but it was canceled. Once the GM 80 was killed this gave all those in GM who hated the Fiero the ammo to kill it. The Vette people were at the head of the line as they could not afford to lose any more sales of their own and hope to get a C6 approved. Chevy sells more cars and Chevy get more say than Pontiac."

Ya never mind that the GM80 was calling for a FWD Camaro and Firebird just like the Ford Probe was originally supposed to be the Mustang III, I am sure there was allot of input as far as keeping the F-bodies RWD that killed the GM80.

Who gives a $h!? It happened 70 years in the ago. Ever country and company makes mistakes. Europe, Russia, America, Japan, China. No one is perfect so get over it. Stop lamenting the past and get on with your lives.

Aahh, spoken like a true member of the youth of America, it does matter when clearly this gentleman is attempting a smear campaign on GM basically on the grounds that they happened to own Opel during the time Hitler ran Germany, but you are Dodgefan so that would not affect you right? Well what this guy is attempting to is like saying the Third Reich owns Daimler Chrysler (and that would include Dodge) right now and you guys are active participants in the Holocaust or didn't they teach you about that in what they pass off for school nowadays.

Its hard to tell what is going on in slates head I have been reading him off and on for a while now and one moment he is acting like a liberal and the next a conservative, I guess he just writes what ever he thinks will piss off the most people this time it is the UAW, next it will probably be GM.

Oh, duh. Thanks for clearing that up.

What a 260hp Direct Injection Cobalt, oh man that sounds sweet it wasn't that long ago that the best the Corvette could do was 250hp.

Interesting article in the January 7th edition if the San Francisco Chronicle. History is indeed a revelation.

Nazis rode to war on GM wheels.

And everyone makes mistakes!

Well this makes sense Edwin Black is a writer for the New York Times (a newspaper with a stellar reputation for credibility NOT!) and this article is being printed in the San Fransisco Chronicle, this guy could have said George W. Bush financed Hitler and the Nazi's with our tax dollars and they would have printed it, the sad part is there is some fool out there that would believe it.

Highs: direct injection 300 hp V6, 6 speed transmission, some interior elements look classy, bold new front end, lots of gizmos for the kids

Lows: generic side styling that looks like everything else, looks too much like a shrunken STS, some interior bits look like a 20K Chrysler Sebring

Summary: fairly impressive new entry with lots of technical prowess but can't we move away from the plain generic slab side styling!

Would you rather the car look plain like the new Lexus LS or the latest "exiting" designs from Lincolin, Summary: the sides are fine quit crying and enjoy this beautiful car that has come from Cadillac, somthing that many people thought wasn't possible as reciently as 10 to 15 years ago, remember the Catara or gasp the Cimmeron.

That is gorgrous... There are flaws. on the rear... the interior isnt shiny enough to keep somebody like this interested. But, other than that... :smilies-38096:

The Cobalt was part of the '06 COTY competition, as they weren't available in time for the MT cutoff.

The Tundra will win next year's contest.

Of course it will, it still is a scam, haven't you noticed that TOTY is spelled TOYoTa Motor Trend has this all figured out, they think that they can fool us by giving the Silverado the award this year will hide their bias (come on the competiton was three other GMT-900's and a forgotton stepsister to the Explorer that was originally based on the mostly dead Ranger) this was a gimme to cover up their screw up with COTY, which let a BORING well built, non-innovative, high selling bar of soap win the award, the TOTY article was buried behind the most important people in the auto industry article (Number 1 was the head of Toyota by the way) for crisssakes.

Did M/T swear-off the Toyonda kool-aid?

Anyway

Naw, they just didn't have anybody to choose from, if Toyota stuck to their original plans Chevy would have got screwed again.

Lincoln is officially dead, if they even remotely think that their Zeph (oops) MKZ stands a chance against this (even though they probably aren't direct competitors) they are waaaayyy bigger fools than I had thought, this CTS is going to strike hard at the way alot of people think of Cadillac.