carman21

The only reason the V-8 was such a big deal in its hey day is that Detroit increased the displacement to V-12 ranges and reap the success of high horsepower.

Today's DOHC V-8s are much more compact and as such do not make up for losses in fuel economy with vast amounts of sheer horsepower and torque.

Hopefully something good will come out of this, obviously we will not be seeing anything dramatic(aka the new Buick Epsilon 2 sedan) at least from what I've heard.

No comment, except to say that I now need to know nothing more about you to know where you're coming from on this, or any other topic.

You are reading way too much into things.

Aside from the Electra and Riviera, there were no luxury cars that rivaled Cadillac.

The remaining Buicks were fancy Chevys.

Buick has not been a near luxury brand since at least the 1950s if not the 1930s.

That being said, Buick could move slightly more upscale but, not too much that it challenges Cadillac. This thread is so old that I'm no longer interested in defending it beyond this.

I never voted for this Congress either, my Congressman is a good man but, Menendez can kiss my ass. I think its best to vote this incompetent congress out. I think the Republicans learned their lesson, its not worth ruining the country over it. Hopefully, Rudy will save us.

Unless we add hybrids or get cheap fuel again. The V-8 is going to become exclusive to luxury and sports cars.

You're not alone. This country is full of corn-pone fatties who think they're ENTITLED to the standard of living their fathers and grandfathers enjoyed. These same people don't worry either because "technology will save us." 35 mpg? Easy. Why? Because that's the way it's always been.

Bank on this - prepare yourself for a different way of living that will include forced sacrifice.

Wow, that is just pathetic. Technology will prevail are our standard of living will dramatically increase due to those very technologies. Only hard-line Stalinists call for forced sacrifice.

We are a Capitalist society, in the course of human history, no other system has lifted masses out of 6,000 years of Socialist servitude to the State and into the greatest period of human prosperity ever.

Capitalism built the comfortable world that you are spoiled to live in if you think for a second to count your blessings.

Do you not realize that when a government can dictate how to live and where you live that they are not too far off from telling you how to think what is acceptable to say, and whom to vote for, regardless of what is right or to your own benefit?

If you kill or weaken Capitalism you are in fact killing or weakening Democracy.

The two are linked and cannot be separated.

Oh and by the way, technology will save us, why? Because free markets will urge the development of the technologies.

Do us all a favor and stop sleeping with Karl Marx.

Well, I'm excited, we need a new server for the Auto Show Season. Especially Detroit.

Ford has Jaguar to contend with Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, and Lexus.

Lincoln I believe will target Acura and later Buick.

The Lincoln Continental competed directly with the Buick Electra and Olds 88 in the 1960s. Cadillac was in a league of their own.

Ford had a separate Continental brand to compete with Cadillac, the only model was the famous Mark II.

Chrysler had a separate brand to compete with Caddy as well. Imperial had several models over the years.

Lincoln-Mercury has more in common with Buick-Pontiac than with Cadillac. Its just been a while and Caddy downgraded itself during the late 1970s to compete with Lincoln as GM moved Olds & Buick down-scale.

Give Tax write-offs to US-based automakers to offer two mode hybrids in All BOF SUVs by 2010 MY. All midsize and fullsize cars by 2011 my. Finally, all the rest by 2012.

Then schedule in plug-ins starting in 2015 through 2018.

Bingo, 50-150 MPG and we get to keep the muscle.

Too bad nobody gives a damn who has the power to do it.

Meanwhile switch all our electric power to clean coal and nuclear.

Oh yeah, wrote-off flex fuel tech. So, we can use E85 reducing our oil imports massively.

Woah, we reduced our CO2 output dramatically.

I still say the SUN accounts for 99% of all climate change.

If the Sun sneezes the Earth gets sick.

Al Gore needs to retire already, what a clueless loser, .

Give me the Nobel Prize Now! Bitch!

I just got my grandparents Bronze 1986 Delta 88 Royale Brougham Coupe with 135,000 miles.

The car runs smooth, feels posh, and despite its age feels pretty modern. The 3800 V-6 (Which I baby) can still push you into the leather seats when getting on the highway. Its just a great car. I can't wait to get some money together to restore an already garage kept car.

Who needs my loaded Regal LS with this car?

Please note that, I would prefer a Olds 442 that will push me into the trunk just by tapping the gas and it gets 5MPG. I like warmer weather so, the more CO2 the betta,lol.

I think that all cars in a performance comparo should be about the same size and mass, In a luxury comparo about the same price and equipment.

Major lack of dealerships. For example, Idaho has ONE Saturn dealership. I live in Idaho, and it's four hours away. Nearest Chevy dealer is four minutes away.

I didn't think of the dealership shortage. However, most hybrid buyers live in markets that also have many Saturn dealers.

I agree it's wholly unrealistic, except maybe as a plan to kill of Saturn and greatly hurt the other brands as well. Well, Pontiac would love the Astra. Aura & Outlook = almost zero development dollar extra sales. (well, the Aura took some development dollars, but they were surely all made up for in development savings for the new Malibu.) The Outlook is to the Acadia as GMC is to Chevy - it costs so little for it to exist that it takes very few sales before the cost is justified.

The Malibu will likely kill off the Aura before it is given the chance to grow roots in the market. This would not happen until it as supposed to be redesigned for 2010 or 2011 model year. The Outlook is truly th weaker selling of the trio. GM will question wasting more money on a second generation.

The Volt should go to Chevy. I don't think arguing it going to another brand makes a lick of sense unless it's as an additional model. Even then, I think the Volt should stand on it's own as a Chevy for at least a year or two. Work out the bugs, build Chevy's image, let the "early adopters" grab 'em up. Then add on a model or two in the upscale range.

Saturn's demographics match those of a hybrid buyer than those of current Chevy buyers. While Chevy will boost volume, it will merely hurt Saturn by taking away eco-minded import buyers to Chevy. Chevy should merely integrate hybrids into its existing line-up. Leaving Saturn with the experimental models.

I agree that GM would be well served to keep Saturn's image generally "green", but that doesn't mean hybrid & fuel cell only. That can mean efficient smaller cars and diesels as well.

While you are correct, I believe Saturn needs to regain a bit of its quirkiness. Today that means high-tech green machines.

Imagine a Sky that gets 50MPG. With the Redline engine. Thats just an example.

Imagine Saturn commercials, "The only brand that does not sell cars under 40MPG," The lowest carbon footprint of any brand", "At the Forefront of the Green Movement", etc. I suppose you get where I'm going.

Hybrid-buyers look for Prestige. Hey, look at me I got a Prius! These people feel the same pride as those whom buy a Lexus. I believe Saturn could be the Cadillac of the Green market.

I hope not, otherwise Buick will be dumping it's attempts to move upmarket down the toilet.

Until Cadillac moves upscale don't expect Buick to either.

The CTS last I checked still competes against the ES350 & IS350 not the GS in price and luxury.

No, the LaCrosse/Regal will merely be priced from the low-mid 20s to the low 30s. Let's Say $24k to $32k. So, it will be priced against higher end Camrys, Accords, & Altimas as well as the MKZ and the base ES350 & TL.

So, a Buick Compact will Start around $18k. leaving room for the Astra & Cobalt.

Beside buick has to build a reputation as a builder of good cars before anybody will waste their money on a Buick luxury car. The last time Buicks equalled luxury or status was 35 years ago. Most young buyers only know Buicks as cheap ugly old person cars. Buick must change that before they bother moving upscale. The Enclave is a step in he right direction but, SUV buyers expect a premium price, Buick & GM will have a lot harder time getting a $30k Buick midsize sedan sold.

With runaway sales of Toyota's Prius, Where is GM's Prius?

I believe that Saturn would be better served if it had a hybrid exclusive model like the Prius.

I believe that instead of giving Chevy the Volt, why not make it Saturn's flagship?

I propose killing the Aura & the poor selling Outlook and send the Astra to Pontiac.

The Vue would become a plug-in hybrid only.

Saturn would become GM's first Hybrid brand. I believe Saturn could also act as venue for introducing electric and hydrogen powered vehicles.

I believe sales of the Saturn Volt & Vue will run between 200-250k.

I realize this is wholly unrealistic but, its still an interesting idea that leaves Pontiac getting the Opels and Buick getting Holdens.

Here's my prediction,

Malibu LS $18k

Malibu LT $19k

Malibu LT V-6 $21k

Malibu Hybrid $22k(Hybrid equipped to replace needed LTZ I-4)

Malibu LTZ V-6 $24k

My guess was close to reality, Iwish the 'bu weren't so pricey on the LTZ.

Chevy has to realize that its sqeezing too close to the CTS @ $26k. What are Saturn, Pontiac, and buick gonna have for breathing room now?

The 2009 model but of course. Delta 2.

The Corolla used to be the nice boring compact for old people. Now its the ugly boring compact for old people.

The Cobalt will crush this piece of crap.

If they used a Camry half the country would think its a Camry commercial.

Besides, I think its saying that this Malibu stands out unlike previous models.

I think GM wants us to forget about the 2003-2007 models.

As a former 1998 Malibu LS owner, I resent that that car was boring. I still believe that it was the best mainstream car of the last 20 years.

It was good looking, peppy, sipped fuel, and handled well. What more do you need for a Chevy?

I guess ten years later we need better.

I agree somewhat with your prices. If the new Malibu was a clearly superior or even competitive vehicle with some of it's target audience, which it clearly is not, then Chevy could charge 20K plus and people would buy it in droves. As it stands, this new Malibu is really just the same old GM wine in a slippery new bottle with a slightly fancier label attached. To get folks to pay 21-22K for a 4 cylinder Malibu, which is about what I would expect to see them priced at with a few options, it would need a rear seat armrest and head restraint, overhead assist grips, better cloth seat material, 180 HP 2.4 instead of the detuned 164 version of the Ecotec engine, greater body width for more interior room, better interior plastics etc. and some modern high tech options such as NAV.

I really suspect that the Malibu is merely a competitor with used Camcords not new ones. That explains why it is about a generation behind the standard for the segment. Saturn & Buick had better be up to taking on a beating the Camcord, if GM desires to win back midsize supremacy.

The Stylish all-new Malibu will sell well. I predict it will rise to 250k sales annually from its current 175k.

However, I believe this new Malibu could surpass 300k if Chevy did the following.

First, I believe that the Malibu should be the lowest priced midsizer in GM's line-up.

So, the Malibu LTZ must not surpass the Saturn Aura XR's $24,845 nor should the Malibu LS be priced above the Pontiac G6's Base model's $19,345 (Of course the G6's value model will need to be dropped). The LS & LT models come with a 4-speed automatic only and the LTZ model comes with a 6-speed automatic standard. So, How does this look?

Malibu LS $17,845

Malibu LT $19,195

Malibu LT V-6 $22,045

Malibu LTZ V-6 $24,045

The way I figure it, the Malibu has a more simple line-up that gives higher level midsizers from Pontiac, Saturn, and Buick greater breathing room. I strongly recommend that GM takes this simple changes into account at least for 2009 models. I can conceive an Impala starting at $24k but, at $26k the Impala would have shifted from targeting the Taurus & 300 to targeting the Avalon & Maxima, not to mention it hurts the Lucerne.

Tell me what you think...

No way.

First of all, with the new Malibu starting at around 20 and ending in upper 20's, and with the Aura starting around 23 (I think) and ending in upper 20's, I don't think the premium marque should start at 22k. I'd say it should start at around 25/26k. Secondly, no 4-cylinder engine. Thirdly, if in all these years they didn't dump a 5-speed auto in Buicks, or even the Cadillac DTS, what makes you think they'd start doing that now that cheaper cars, (ie Malibu, G6, and Aura) have a 6-speed available, that they wouldn't make that standard?

I see this possible:

CX/CXL 3.6L at around 250hp

CXS 3.6L DI at around 290hp

Super 3.6L DI or 5.3L V8, 300-320hp (and this is pushing the limits of my mind)

Yes, Buick is a premium brand but, not a luxury or prestige brand like Cadillac or Lexus. So, Buick can have a midsizer starting in the low 20s. As well as a compact starting in the high $10s. Think Volkswagen minus the sales failure over the last 10 years.

You make valid points but, FYI

The Malibu starts around $19k and works to $26k

The G6 starts at $17k and work to $27k ($30k for the convrt. )

The Aura starts at $20k and tops out at $25k

So, a Regal from $22k to 31k still leads the pack yet does not approach the CTS' price points until the CXS model.

A perfect compromise of values.

1) the 5spd auto is likely when GM replaces the ancient 4spds. However, if production costs drop I'd expect a 6spd for all models.

2) An I-4 is an insurance policy against a further rise in already high gas prices.

3) I do not want a Super model unless its AWD and turbo.

4) No V-8! Period except for the upcoming Zeta Buick fullsizer.

I hope so

This car will likely be priced between the Malibu & CTS.

Here's my guess for the next Buick Regal.

CX-$22k

CX V-6-$25k

CXL-$25k

CXL V-6 $28k

CXS $31k

Engines?

2.4L 190hp I-4 w/ DI

3.6L 290hp V-6 w/ DI & AFM

Transmissions?

5spd Auto for CX, CXL

6spd Auto for CX V-6, CXL(optional?), CXL V-6, CXS

With this car hitting the sweet spot between $20-40k, I believe it will surpass 200k in sales easily. A coupe & convertible couldn't hurt.

Thank God!