USA-1

Those are concept pics. 99.9% sure that half steering wheel is not DOT compliant in the U.S. Just think of the lawsuits, "I grabbed for the steering wheel, but nothing was there"  

The outside looks the same except for a slight front fascia revision. The wheels on the red one are pretty nice, but the blue ones hub cap looking wheels are fugly! At least they changed the main touchscreen to the landscape layout, the portrait style was ridiculous.

Under 2 sec. to 60? The average Joe will be passin' out or puking on the reg. from blood loss to their craniums and inner ear with that kind of G force. 🙃🤮

520 mi. range EPA is maybe 450 mi. real world, nobody drives as slow or as easy as they do to get those numbers from what I've heard and seen from engineers I know, but still not bad. Wonder how much weight it added with the extra battery packs since they didn't disclose it.  Model S and X are approaching the weight of a fullsize crew cab 4x4 BOF truck.

X-Country (skiing)

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The Corvette (C8 and C7 Z06, ZR1) Nurburgring times are just in a sea of other super cars, as I said there are several in the 6:40's on sale now and dozens in the low 7's with the Corvette.  There might be 25 coupes running sub 7:30 Nurburgring, but 2-door cars are 1% of global volume. 

Cadillac competing with Germans is a false myth, all those V-series cars were often slower than the German counterpart, and Cadillac had 2-3 V-series cars at a time at most, where were the V-series SUVs? 

I actually think Cadillac is beyond saving, baring a massive amount of investment (say $100 billion of over 10 years)  and GM won't invest that much in them.

Just wait for the C8 Z06 and Zora then get back to us on Nurburgring times. Like balthy stated above the Nurburgring is all about bragging rights and that's about it.

So you're admitting that Cadillac's are true competitors to the Germans? Got it. V-Series are legitimately very good cars in chassis and performance metrics and there will be an Escalade V model coming with the new 2021 SUV and the Lyriq BEV CUV is said to have a V Series model once they launch as well.  

Cadillac is not beyond saving and they aren't bleeding nearly as bad as MB is right now. MB has dumped model after model because they finally figured out they had far too many in the lineup and quality was taking a back seat to mass manufacturing. MB quality has suffered quite a bit in the last 10 years, I know this because family friends have 2 of them a 2012 and 2016 and it's been pretty bad, in the shop a lot for electrical gremlins and check engine lights. Only MB car that hasn't suffered as much in the quality dept. is the S Class, but the price is also over $200k for a loaded model now.  

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Unofficial times of times of the Model S Plaid at 7:13, so if that holds it will be faster than the C8 Z51 by a lot, and on par with the C7 Z06.  I'd imagine a C8 Z06 with enough track focused upgrades will beat 7:13.  But is Cadillac going to make a sedan that can do a track times of a C8 Z06 to top where Tesla is at?   Tesla is throwing down some pretty big performance numbers, and that is with sedans and SUVs what other car company is going to make SUVs (the most popular body style) that has performance of top level sports cars.  Really only AMG is making an consistent attempt across the line,  VW group with the Urus and RS Q8 and BMW has X3 and X5 M's but no X7 M.

Cadillac I think is selling less cars now than they were in 2005, so that attempt to take on the Germans was a bust.  I have driven the first 2 generation CTS's and the final generation STS but I haven't driven a Cadillac is about 8 years since I bought my car.  I've sat in them at auto shows, the interiors are sub par and Cadillac gives me no reason to even waste time test driving one. 

So if you're talking top performance model of Model S with Plaid lets talk about the top C7 with the ZR1 with a Ring time of 7:04 so the C8 Z06 will meet or beat that and Zora will crush that time being a 1,000 hp AWD Hybrid Hyper-car. And yes there is word of a Cadillac Halo car that could be based on the C8 or the BEV skateboard architecture. Tesla does have pretty good performance numbers and I'm not taking that away from them like your close minded comments toward GM, like usual. Cadillac Lyriq BEV SUV is coming and it will have a performance version as well.

Fewer vehicles sold does not mean less quality or less competitive vehicles, it's usually marketing issues, which Cadillac is known for and it's not a bust because they're still here and very comparable and competitive to the German and Japanese rivals in many ways. 2005 was before the new gen cars, 2008 was the first year of the gen. 2 CTS which was the start of the increase in quality and fit and finish and GM also started offering the high performance V Series that were now actually competitive. It was an increase in quality and fit and finish from the Gen 2 to Gen 3 CTS and it's even better with the CT4 and CT5. The interiors are not sub par in the Gen. 3 CTS or the new CT4 and CT5's. CT5-V Blackwing is going to be on a whole nother level of performance on the track and on the road. 

16 minutes ago, balthazar said:

2019 Tesla Model X P100D Ludicrious Mode : 1/4 mile in 11.3 secs, plus 1 hour to fully charge & warm batteries. Total 1/4-mile time : 216,011.3 seconds.

 

'Merica!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸😁👍🏼

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

Exhaust note is part of the appeal, but even AMG knows their longer term future is electric and their short term future is hybrids.  

 

I expect the Model S Plaid will be faster around the Nurburgring than the C8, the Panamera and AMG GT already are faster than the C8, and the Model S Plaid should be faster than a Panamera.  Now the Z06 may beat if, it they get enough grip, power and aero working the right way and that would be a more fair comparison as far as price goes.

 

Agreed that Tesla has quality issues, but they keep selling.  And I expect Tesla quality will improve over time, just as their capacity improves over time.  Someone may teach Tesla about quality, but I don't know if Cadillac is going to be that brand.  I suspect Cadillac trying to take on Tesla will be more of a struggle than when Cadillac tried to take on the Germans the past 15 years and that basically went no where.  

I highly doubt that the HEAVY Model S Plaid will be faster than the C8 Chevy Corvette around "The Ring" and it definitely won't be faster than the upcoming C8 Z06.

Cadillac's have far better fit and finish than Tesla, I've owned two Cadillac's and was looking at the Model S in 2014 at the same time, no comparison inside or out. 

Cadillac has always taken on the German's and have bettered them in many ways. If you have not driven a Cadillac sedan in the last 13 years, and I suspect that you haven't, then your point is irrelevant.

5 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Well...GM marketing is starting to create buzz for the HUMMER 

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a35320417/gmc-hummer-ev-race-car/

 

Looks like a real life Traxxas E-Maxx truck like I used to have. 👍🏼

7 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Now...let's hope that the EV public will accept it. 

There are several things that are against it and it isnt even out yet.

1. Its NOT a Tesla  

2. Because its a GM product and NOT a Tesla

3. Its name is HUMMER. 20 years ago, It quickly went from a stud to a dud BECAUSE green people shunned it for being a gas guzzling SUV.  We do not know if GM/GMC and/or HUMMER shook that stigma off, even if it IS 20 years ago in the past...

4. We already know that there are some ICE people that will hate on EVs no matter what...so this EV HUMMER cant even rely on the macho-ness of the big, brutish V8 SUV crowd...  Like you have implied with Cadillac going all in with EVs but Chevy will continue on selling V8s and ICEs...   The big brutish SUV crowd will just ignore this and go on and buy Yukons, Tahoes and TRX's from Dodge... 

 

Can't wait to see the hardcore Prius owners heads explode from overthinking the Hummer name and EV together as one. 🤪🤯

Like I previously stated, GM (and other manf's) will still build the high profit vehicles that sell really well in North America for decades to come...fullsize ICE BOF pickup trucks and SUV's, but will start to offer a BEV truck based on this HummerEV as well. 

6 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Now...let's hope that the EV public will accept it. 

There are several things that are against it and it isnt even out yet.

1. Its NOT a Tesla  

2. Because its a GM product and NOT a Tesla

3. Its name is HUMMER. 20 years ago, It quickly went from a stud to a dud BECAUSE green people shunned it for being a gas guzzling SUV.  We do not know if GM/GMC and/or HUMMER shook that stigma off, even if it IS 20 years ago in the past...

4. We already know that there are some ICE people that will hate on EVs no matter what...so this EV HUMMER cant even rely on the macho-ness of the big, brutish V8 SUV crowd...  Like you have implied with Cadillac going all in with EVs but Chevy will continue on selling V8s and ICEs...   The big brutish SUV crowd will just ignore this and go on and buy Yukons, Tahoes and TRX's from Dodge... 

 

5 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Oh...I agree 100 and 10 percent!

But as it is now...I am perhaps reading too much into the situation...BUT...

When Sandy Munro was discussing on Autoline Afterhours that his next tear up vehicle for analysis would be the Rivian, he explained that he went to his viewers and followers on-line to ask what vehicle THEY want to see to be reviewed. 

HIS viewers made an almost unanimous decision to choose Rivian and hence his next subject.

HUMMER, CYbertruck among others were choices...but as HE said, NOBODY chose the HUMMER. OK...the Cybertruck also had few votes...kinda proving your point about Tesla.  BUT...also kinda proving MY point about HUMMER. 

Maybe my #1 point is not all that accurate as to say that Telsa is infallible. And my #2 point is also less than accurate about Tesla too...however, HUMMER may NOT be such a hot commodity JUST because its a GM product and its name IS HUMMER...

GM marketing has to work crazy overtime hours to make this a hit BEFORE it hits the showrooms. Its BEHIND the 8 ball as we speak. 

PS: I am NOT doubting the capabilities of the HUMMER. Just the star power of it and the lack thereof. 

 

Just the name, performance and still having off road capability will sell most buyers on it, as long as they have deep pockets. The only real fallback it will have is the $79,995 starting price and the first ones out the gate are supposed to be around $112k, but the last somewhat comparable H2 SUT aka H2T's were around $65k when new back in 2010 without all the high tech. gadgetry. Comparable to Rivian starting prices for more truck and more electrons available. 

Pretty informative, I think the last minute starting @15:45 is one of the best parts. "Watts to Freedom" mode 🇺🇸👍🏼 There really is a crazy amount of Tech. in this beast.

11 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Car companies design cars (and powertrains) for world use though, some of these car companies are operating in over 100 countries, so they have to take into account a global view.  Granted, they might be able to sell a V8 model of something in the USA where gas is cheap, and the same car with a turbo 4 in China where these is displacement tax.  

The Corvette is fast, but a Model S Performance can do 0-60 in 2.4 seconds and get 104 mpg-equivalent.  And it is a full size sedan, and there is a higher performance model coming later this year.  The V8 or even V12 can't win a performance argument anymore.  You can argue V8's are relatively cheap, and have a good performance per dollar attribute, that is the biggest thing V8's have going for them while EV's are still expensive.

The C8 Corvette will have limited availability outside of the U.S., I believe AUS with a right hand drive model coming and parts of EMEIA because it's so sought after. It will definitely have different powertrain layouts overseas as it will here as well with the Z06 possibly having a Hybrid drivetrain option and Zora being a 1,000 hp Hybrid-Hypercar. What I'm saying is GM understands that one reason people buy a Corvette is for the sound of the engine and exhaust, just like your AMG models.  

It's never going to take away from the fact that the Model S is more of a hog at 5,000 lbs. than even the porky Dodge Challenger Hellcat at 4,300 lbs. You talk about the Model S Performance version, but everybody knows it's not a track car in any way and it will never corner like the 3,400 lb. C8 Corvette. Performance version for Tesla just means more weight with dual and now triple motors and more battery packs to keep a palatable range with the extra motors.

 I've sat in the Model S and Model 3 and I'm just not impressed, materials are cheap and the fit and finish are horrid for $60-$140k cars. Their QC suffers in order to get units out the door. They are constantly behind and I believe still lose money on every car, which sucks. We need them to be a competitive U.S. company and stick around as competition is a good thing. I really think Cadillac BEV's are going to show Tesla a thing or two about fit and finish in the next few years as they roll out.

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

I'm hearing the same thing, that they're still backlogged with 2020 base C8 orders. 18 mo. wait if you ordered one today. Thanks Ronavirus you b@stard...

29 minutes ago, David said:

Valid points, but I do think as people see more EV options, drive them and depending on where you live, I see the V8 being enthusiast more than anything in about 15 years.

EV's are a hoot to drive, in fact mine used to still make me smile every time I mashed the pedal with that sudden rush of torque and the G forces that push you back in the seat that really made it feel like a roller coaster ride even after having it for 3 years, but it's just such a quiet really strange sensation not hearing a thundering LS V8 under the hood with that much pull off the line.  Nothing can replace that awesome burbling idle or near redline sound of the SBC V8 or a Ferrari V12, not even a digital engine sound fed inside through the speakers can emulate it. 

42 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think gas engines will be around 15 years at least.  But Europe has stricter emissions standards than the USA, and a lot of countries may also ban sale of ICE cars as early as 2030.  So it is only a matter of time, whether it be 2030 or 2040, electric will eventually take over.  

I also think electric will take over from top down, because the performance of electric will be so much more than gasoline.  The only reason to buy ICE will become cost, on stuff like an Elantra or Corolla, where you can get the car cheap.

I am speaking on the U.S.A. where live with cheap gasoline (at least until the current Admins. dire energy regulations jack prices up again). Europe has their own problems like $5/gal. fuel, that's the main reason their EV sales are through the roof there.

EV's do have the low end torque and get off the line quickly, but ICE cars the Chevrolet Corvette C8 500 hp 6.2L V8 is also very quick at 2.95 sec. 0-60 mph and still gets 27 mpg hwy.

EV's main downfalls are up front cost and excess weight from the battery packs, Tesla's with 300+ mi. range are hogs at 5k to 6k lb. curb weight for most of their models.

On 1/24/2021 at 11:04 AM, oldshurst442 said:

Emissions standards all over the world after 2030 or 2035 say otherwise for ANY internal combustion  engine. 

Im all for the Corvette to retain its V8 engine as long as its possible. Until its V8 cant pass emissions any longer. If by any chance, ICE engineers can somehow engineer a V8 (not JUST any ICE like a 4 banger, but a V8... Corvette, right?)  to pass the inevitable highly impossible emissions, then Ill be ecstatic about a V8 Corvette in a EV world. But lets not kid ourselves here....  Pie in the sky scenarios aside, I hope we all understand that the world no longer wants the ICE.  I hope we could understand that BEVs are what is next in our future for our personal transportational needs.  Be it in 2035 or 2055....its coming...

Especially when GM has said to have stopped working on new generation internal combustion engines.  

Oh...they will updated this new LT2 in the coming decade, but as is, this engine will never pass the impossibly high emissions to come in 2030 or 2035. And seeing that development money is zero for a next gen Chevy small block, this would be the last gen V8 GM will produce. 

 

CAFE - Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards means that GM can still build V8's that many of their customers still want and buy. It's why they are building BEV's on the GM BEV3 skateboard architecture so they can lower the corporate average within GM. It's why they produce(d) the compliance Volt and current Bolt EV's so we can have sweet Corvette's, Camaro's and Silverado's with a V8.

Cadillac is the only GM brand that has committed to exclusively building BEV's by 2030, and that's a stretch, I think they will find that they will still have to offer ICE models well past that year. The V8 is here (with GM at least) for the next 20 or 25 years because they sell hundreds of thousands every year and that's what the bean counters and stock holders want..new units down the road. They will always build what sells well and many buyers aren't ready to make the move to EV's now, if ever.

I would and have had both an ICE and an EV vehicle at the same time so I'm opened minded, but I also see what the automotive market moves.

16 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla is probably the coolest, most desired, or hottest brand name in cars.  Tesla is the "it" brand.  They don't even advertise and yet everyone talks about them.  That's what I am comparing, no brand name carries the impact of the Tesla brand name.  

Need to add this to the Delusional posts column 👆🏼

Well they do have the Shopping Mall sales model so there's that exposure to the masses...that other mainstream car makers don't use because they don't have to.

What about your vaunted Mercedes Benz brand love affair? Y'all split up? 🤪

Same blah Genesis grille, not as bad as the SUV's baleen whale mouth of a grille, but still blah.

Hyundai is the worst about not being able to properly hide the radar box for the adaptive cruise/collision avoidance system in the grille of their cars, it's always a blank section right in the middle of the grille. I've noticed it on a lot of their makes and models with the option. How do their designers not see it as gimmicky?!

The sister car has it as well. sTiNgEr

 2021 Sonata. Looks worse in person.

Looks like it's stuck on the outside of the Kia K5 grille. They just gave up trying to hide it 

On 1/15/2021 at 8:30 PM, smk4565 said:

A Corvette SUV is a horrible idea, they shouldn't do it. However I think GM will do it.

The "Corvette" name still means something because it hasn't been watered down or trashed.  If GM wants to make a high performance electric crossover, I'd say that is what Cadillac is for.

This goes to a greater problem with how trash the brand image of Ford and Chevrolet are, why they have to call everything Corvette or Mustang, why the Bronco doesn't say Ford on it, etc.  Compared to say Tesla, where the brand matters more than the model.  Ask a Corvette owner what kind of car they drive, they'll say Corvette, not Chevy, ask a Model S owner and they'll say Tesla.  GM needs to make the Chevy brand cool, not trash the Corvette name with SUVs.

I agree with you that GM should not make an SUV model with the Chevy Corvette name, but you can't compare a model like the Model S that's only been around since 2012 to a legendary model like the Corvette that's been around since 1953, not even in the same league. 

It's comes down to uniqueness and notoriety, Model S is a bland generic model name that doesn't resonate with people, so Tesla has to be mentioned with the model and people know all Tesla's are EV's so there's no need to elaborate. Chevrolet is a storied brand where Tesla has a lot of catching up to do. It has nothing to do with a "trash image" with not mentioning Chevrolet with Corvette, it's just implied and doesn't need to be mentioned as they are both well know very unique names that need no introduction. It's the same with the Silverado name even though only a model name since the 1999 redesign it was a trim name in the SB trucks of the 70's and 80's so it's known that it's a Chevrolet pickup. Even the Cadillac Escalade has a very strong model branding that can be mentioned with or without Cadillac, has nothing to do with the image of Cadillac, people just know because both are a storied brand name and model, unlike Tesla's models with zero unique qualities.

BTW, I am a Corvette owner and I say it's a Chevy Corvette or C5 Chevy Corvette or if talking to a fellow Corvette owner only C5 Coupe needs to be brought up, it has absolutely nothing to do with not wanting to bring up the Chevrolet or Chevy name or it not being thought of as a great storied brand name. How many songs have been written about Tesla? Zero. Chevrolet on the other hand? Several.  

Also, Tesla only has 4 or 5 models so saying Tesla is easier for owners when the actual models have very little notoriety and zero uniqueness. If you only say Chevrolet they will say oh which one a car, truck or SUV? (of 18 -20 models currently on sale including commercial vans and medium duty trucks) MUCH larger company. And as far as Tesla's Stock or company value it's VERY over valued, anyone in the stock market knows it's majorly bloated. 

Chevrolet to Tesla is Apples to Oranges. Or maybe Apple Pies to Creamsicles?   

It's GM Marketing and top brass salivating at the chance to capitalize on the Corvette name...again. The Chevrolet Corvette is a classic two door premium sports car that sits low to the ground with a front or modern day mid-engine setup and that's how it should stay. The 1,000 hp Super-car Corvette Zora coming in a few years with a high winding 850hp 5.5TT V8 thundering away pushing behind the driver and passenger is the propulsion and sound it always needs, the 150 hp electric motor pulling in front is all the electric propulsion it should have. BEV's have their place, but we need to keep the sweet sounding V8 and only two doors while sitting low to the ground in a Corvette.

55 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/opening-car-windows-could-reduce-165700273.html

 

 

 

 

I would even recommend that one should open all the windows in the car with All the Hot Air coming from the orifices of certain immediate objects inside that are melting...snow❄️ in the forecast.

On 1/22/2021 at 5:10 AM, ykX said:

Guys, lets keep at least this website clear from the politics.

I get enough of that sh@t everywhere else.

Plenty of other subjects to get on each other's nerves

 

TDS is very real and on full display by a few on here, they just can't help themselves.

On 1/8/2021 at 6:32 AM, A Horse With No Name said:

 

 

 

That '40 Merc CT is HOT! Mobster style.

540cid BB in that Sq. Body?1 Dang!

Very clean lifted silver Sq. Body on cover shot below and @2:55 is very close to the look of my white '86 SB LB 3/4 ton 4x4 I had, mine had a 4" Rancho lift with 35x16.5" BFG AT's I had the chrome 8 horizontal square bar grille. Trying to find a digital pic. Man I miss that truck! 

Fitzgerald

4k lb. hog. That's ridiculously heavy for a modern Coupe in this class, shows how far Lexota has fallen behind, real R&D is a thing of the past at TMC. That Lexus front-end just keeps getting worse, that spindle grille just keeps getting more defined in a bad way. Looks likes it belongs in a GTA video game and nowhere else. For $90 grand I'd much rather have a C8 Vette or even a fully loaded Camaro ZL1 with much more power like others mentioned above. The Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio with a TT V6 smokes this Lex. on looks alone.  

yogurt

Fish(beer battered)