evok

This discussion is a moot point. Please go back and read the hundreds, thousands of posts from those that have read and analysed the plan for its merits and practibility. There is no need to rehash a year old discussion once again.

((><))

Yes the ball is in the UAW's court but this was just sent to me and was published in the news: "If Delphi asks the bankruptcy court judge to void its contracts, the company wouldn't immediately face organized strikes. Judge Robert Drain has scheduled a hearing on Delphi's request for May 9 and wouldn't decide whether to void Delphi's contracts until after that hearing. "

For good or bad - a year from this Friday the US auto landscape will not look the same.

I try not to venture into the "other guys" forums anymore - If I wanted propaganda I will turn on the 700 Club.

I don't believe: http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345963

It comes down to this, when Hyundai sells 3000+ more Sonatas in Feb., than GM sells G6s, that should tell the company something.

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http://cartoonbox.slate.com/hottopic/?topicid=67&image=0

And I might add that a wise arm chair CEO, with years of living vicariously through others real world automotive experience under his belt once stated "GM would file for Chap 11 by the end of 2005, and you can "count on it"!"

Without a long winded discussion on the business model and the structural changes that have been underway for years, and had just heated up again, the most significant aspect of GM that I and most of the public seem to agree is that GM has become less of a factor when it comes to purchasing a GM product. IMO I have to give RW and Lutz the benefit of the doubt (2008) from what I have seen and heard of on the product side but the perfect storm might be upon GM and they are becoming just another choice in the business. A lesser factor everyday that passes. I know I for one may not get a GM product to replace my current GM car when it comes time. That is unless they give the car to me for a steal. I am not the only one that feels that way, more and more people are. I will not argue against current mgt on the structural moves for the most part but I sure as hell will not cheerlead any of GMs current product beyond the 900s. Until the product is turned around and becomes relevant again on the retail side, GM has some serious issues. It all comes down to the product, and I hate to STILL be talking future world.

LOL

From someone that has never worked for an OEM or been involved in the auto industry, those are unsubstantiated allegations. Oh it is the mistakes of the last 30 years and the history of the last 100 that created the GM of today. Billions of dollars from GMAC and bond issues a few years ago went into the retirement obligations. If that was not done when it did, GM would not be fully funded for the next few years. You have not even read throught the re-statements to understand what they mean or what the affect is. We will just have to wait and see as things unfold. It is still a little to early to speculate from my perspective. Anyone that understands what is happening is pragmatic.

It is in the 10k, above is the link and I did cite the page number. The format over here does not allow a pretty cut and paste.

Though we might disagree on a some points or disagree because of the ambiguity at times because of the nature of posts, enzl is by far one of the balanced posters on CG. enzl is one of the few posters I actually take my time and go out of my way to read for that reason. He has common sense.

SOX IMO is a joke - but there was not a restatement of audited books for 2005 only unaudited estimates for the 4thQ. Take a look for yourself, 2005 was ugly period, making it uglier at this point is no big deal. I expect 06 to be bad. GM is going to have to book more DPH, more NA restructuring including the UAW buyouts and the packages to the salary staff. I expect this to last until 2008 at the earliest. http://secfilings.nasdaq.com/filingFramese...F28%2F2006&pdf=

I did not see anything sensitive in enzl post. Just pointing out an article with information stating the obvious. I pointed the same thing out in an earlier posting on this thread.

Getting back to the discussion: GMAC appears to now be heavily leverage by interest only loans thus making them suseptible to increases to the long term interest rate and possible default on the loans especially if housing prices drop. IMO this jump from 2004 could be a serious risk. Principal Paid (2005 and 2004 column on the right) $ in millions) 2005 2004 2005 2004 Interest only mortgages $ 43,298 $ 15,782 $ 19,361 $ 8,375 Option adjustable rate mortgages 5,077 6 1,114 12 High loan-to-value (100% or more) mortgages 6,610 9,473 13,364 15,076 Below market initial rate (teaser) mortgages 537 638 411 704 Mezzanine loans (characterized by high LTV, IO payments, and deferred interest) 65 216 154 142 Page 38

It is called looking at the facts and trying to obtain as much information to make informed decisions and in the process ascertain the current situation as it applies to the historic problems facing this industry while not running half cocked with unsupported opinion based upon a personal agenda.

What the hell does this have to do with the discussion? And Smale is gone!

You are refering to the Sarbanes Oxley Act Compliance and signatures on the 10k. In GMs case that was released yesterday. Wagoner is not a CPAl.

Now that I in consultations with CPAs have actually gone throught the 10k, this 2 billion dollar discrepency does not appear to be a diliberate, falsification of financial results. The 10k is the official tally as opposed to the estimates that were used in January when the 8-k was released. On page II-127 GM took a net increase in their Dephi and GMNA restructuring charges against earning of app. 1.5 billion. GM appeared to have initially underestimated what DPH and GMNA will cost them. Wagoner recently stated that DPH may cost GM 5.5 - 12 billion dollar. Wagoner and the 10k went on to state that DPH cost to GM should be on the lower band of the estimates. These new costs are reflected in the restatement. GM also took a Goodwill expenditure of app. 400 million in the 4th quarter related to GMAC Commercial Finance Operation pertaining to the 1999 aquisition of the Bank of NY's commercial finance business. Previously it appears that this money was mis booked as cash flow and GM will take the charge in the 4th quarter. This 400 million is the account irregularity that was not properly accounted for in earlier releases. The 10k went on to state that this occurred because of improper internal controls. In light of other pressing issues, this figure is less significant. There are more significant issues that are in that document then the 1.5 billion NA resturcturing obligations and the 400 million SNAFU. And when you start going through GMAC - there may be reasons why there have been no takers to date. Cash flow and selling Interest Only loans may cause concerns in the future compared to the 2004 results for GMAC. So in summary - there are a lot more pressing financial concerns burried in this document than the over blow 1.5 billion dollar underestimate and 400 million dollar SNAFU. My advise is to read the document and not what is reported out in the press.

To GM employees, retirees, and relatives with access to GM discounts, that I will grant. Saving GM - NFW

OK

Kudos - That is the reason why the dealership is in Don's wife's name. Don has a history even prior to the Mt. Morris sporting complex scandal. Don't let the BM fool anyone - PLW wanted to cut the BMs commission. The question is why? And I do aim to find that out. Maybe the BM was padding his own pocket and PLW caught on? Maybe the BM was selling cars at a loss and PLW had to cut his commssion to make up the difference. Maybe the BM was booking false sales? This is getting interesting.