regfootball

camry seems to be fine with average or lesser styling, average or lesser drving capabilities, and average or lesser value.

final result = urban legend created by hysteria and past

can you get a DUI with your remote start and not being in the car? LOL

CRUISER- the dealer told me last night the HHR has a 2k rebate right now. That oddball one you are admiring would have the rebate i think, and prob a nice dealer discount. In my case, i have nearly 2k in GM card burning a hole in my pocket and GM even has an incentive out there to make up to 2k in my final lease payments on my Ford as well. What I am saying, check the rebates and test the waters on the dealer discount.

The Fit is a thoughtful car, but cmon, its light, has no power, and will not have the solidity of the HHR. A few spring potholes and where is the Fit? And if you make the choice solely on engines alone, you already know the ecotec is a great torque four that gets great FE and has passing reserves. That Fit motor just can't keep up, despite how seemingly awesome hondas torqueless wonders are.

Mazda 5 is nice and has more interior versatility than the HHR. I don't think its faster though and at least from when i researched it, i don't think its real world FE was all that much better than cars like the Ford Freestyle were (Freestyles consistently scored 20-25 real world city, my 500 has been seeing 22-23 this summer in town).

A 20k sticker to me translates to a maximum 17k price out the door after rebate, maybe even closer to 16 than 17. If you shop around, you'll find virtually nothing as cool in that price range.

Talked to my neighbor last night. He is a big car guy. He works part time for Dodge doing promotions on the side. He owns an SSR, that's his toy. his wife needed a car. he said he tried to steer her into an HHR but she wanted AWD so they got a Suzuki SX4. he didn't even get a Caliber...LOL. Point being, he thought the HHR is a super package as well.

As long as you can nix the running boards, those drive me nuts..plus the break easy...

the SS dont have em!!!! does the SS also lack armrests though?

nice. a little ricey but otherwise ok.

I think you're getting me...most of those are above the theoretical limit and NO V8's let alone V6's, but still, interesting ideas.

were the same. we want high function, low operating cost cars that are solid and somewhat interesting and mid level fuel economy.

not seeking to validate our existence with an image car that cost wayyyyy too much.

i did stop by a chevy dealer tonight because they supposedly had an HHR SS bt it wasnt there yet. i sat in an HHR with tan interior for a long time. i wish the cargo area was a little bigger and the hip room 2 inches wider but its a neat little cabin inside for such a cost conscious car.

if you can't spring the SS a 2LT would be nice.

forester vibe jetta sportwagen, 09 escape 4 cylinder

I've never really cared for minivans, since I don't fit the demographic and don't have a need for one, but I thought the Ford Windstar Limited from around 2002 in black w/chrome wheels was a sharp looking ride... black minivans are a fairly rare sighting.

all that glass and black paint would really tax the A/C

Agreed TOTALLY.

Other than the STS being a bit soft, there's not much wrong with the way it drives.

It's just the lackluster interior and bland/boring styling (compared to CTS.)

the 08 exterior changes really give it more road presence, too bad the interior remains so bland.

HHR SS- work on getting a deal and you can be closer to 20 than 25, get the stick

Jetta wolfsburg edition.......2.0t and DSG with sunroof for 23k a great gti alternative (more than your limit, but still a whole lot of good for the dough....i am tempted to drive one)

cobalt SS

base taurus- 18 and change. no lie. not attractive, not blazing fast, not fun. old mans car. just a good value. ( i know, snicker away )

mazdaspeed 6

how bout a used grand prix GXP? you might actually be able to find a new 07 or 08 GP for 20 grand or less right now.

skip the g6 unless you can get a v6, the grand prix is a much better buy

fusion is ok only if you want something more mainstream

aura? big discounts right now

skip the astra, nice car, no hp

there is a cool element to the HHR SS i got sitting in one at the autoshow that has me at least thinking a lot about it lately. i think its the over the top style of it. in SS trim in red with red sport seats and the saab shifter it really is a bitchen presentation. and trust me the rabbit dont have HALF the luggage space.

current gen mazda6's are cheap right now too.

here's a story for ya. i got the hail damage on my car estimated yesterday. it was at a dealer and so i went lot cruising in all the dealers nearby.

the pontiac shop had 2 g8's. one in the orange which i just don't know........the other had cloth, which, the cloth looks like its kind of nice.

ANYWAYS.....both g8's had massive hail damage. such a shame to see such a hot car with all that hail damage. they were both v6's i think.

Maybe that's the problem. I was hoping for about 500 pounds less for my money.

mustang. cheaper, less weight.

i do find it weird that it exists still...there must be some sort of tax writeoff or something for this.

I think that GM was ahead of its time with the Rendezvous. It always got pretty good mileage (24 mpg highway), has a low, wide, loading bay, and has a very high roof. The headroom and interior space are fantastic, with a relatively small exterior footprint.

exactly. (don't forget its ugly cousin aztek, sans third row). maybe Buickman was on to something.

the RDV may be ugly but it was well packaged. if you want to sit in a spiritual successor to the RDV's packaging, go check out a hyundai veracruz. Its almost the same thing in some ways.

I think GM is in a unique position to use their multiple brands to offer something unique in the market and cover almost every conceivable segment in the market if it would properly utilize their resources and the potential equity of their divisions. I believe that FWD is the preferred choice as far as the mainstream, mass market is concerned, but that doesn't mean that GM should abandon offering RWD vehicles in both the affordable and luxury ends of the market. GM has the Pontiac division that is in desperate need of a major makeover/revitalization and they have access to RWD platforms that could help them increase the corporation's market share by offering something unique in the market through Pontiac (an entire division that offers affordable RWD products). Contrary to many people on this forum, I believe that Saturn, Buick and Chevrolet (except for the Camaro, Corvette and trucks/SUVs) should rely on FWD platforms for their product portfolios. Pontiac and Cadillac should be the beneficiaries of the RWD platforms to cover the affordable and luxury niche segments of the market who prefer and appreciate the capabilities and traits that RWD offers. I think GM not shoehorning a RWD product into Buick's portfolio is not a major tragedy; denying brand appropriate RWD products to the corporation's affordable performance CAR division is a crime and a disgrace (coupled with the annoying practice of providing this same division with image damaging twin nostiled Chevy clone products).

Imagine how much of a youth division Pontiac could become if it could make a sporty 4-seat 3-door and 5-door subcompact car on a modified Kappa platform with a choice of a 1.8 liter turbocharged base engine or 2.4 liter turbocharged upgrade engine. I personally think this kind of product would blow the doors off anything Scion currently claims that they offer the youth market. I also think a compact Alpha based sedan, coupe, and 5-door (with the same engines as the Kappa hatchback; slightly tuned to offer more power to compensate for a larger vehicle) would be huge hits in the market. A midsize sedan and coupe based on a SWB version of the SigZeta platform merger would provide the market with sportier alternatives to the Accord/Altima sedan/coupe combos. The G8 could continue on into the future as a marginally larger sedan (about 198 inches long?) based on the LWB version of the upcoming SigZeta combo platform. Of course, the Solstice roadster/coupe would continue (its styling would be aligned with global versions sold by Opel/Vauxhall/Holden/Daewoo and it would be a platform mate to a luxury retractable hardtop version for Cadillac; the Saturn Sky would be discontinued in favor of "TwinTop" coupe versions of its Corsa, Astra, and Aura lines). Pontiac would be an alternative, niche player in the market, but at least it would not be offering products that directly compete with the more mainstream FWD based products offered by Chevrolet and Saturn (I'm hoping that Buick is repositioned as a true FWD luxury division, more of a Lincoln/Acura/Audi competitor). The division might even attract customers who would love to own a new BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus (or even Cadillac), but can't afford the price of entry into these brands.

Instead of wasting time and resources shoehorning RWD products into divisions that can properly maintain their images and customer base with FWD products, I would rather see GM use these platforms to rejuvenate their Pontiac division.

great post

The Journey replaced the SWB Caravan, as enzl pointed out.

For several years we used the Shadows (then the Intrepid and Prizm) instead of the Caravan, however after getting the T&C we once again grew appreciative of just how useful and efficient a Minivan is. Nothing beats them for practicality. Our current `07 Grand Caravan rental has Stow `n Go..and that feature alone would sell me. You get far more space in a minivan, and with the Chrysler vans both rows can fold away in a couple seconds. Combine this with tons of storage features and plenty of convenience features, it's easy to see why smart people who aren't obsessed with being hip, yo. buy them. Down the line my driveway will certainly have one of these.

the virtues of a minivan are unbelievable. the issue here is the automakers have not figured out how to make them sexy. if they ever do (which is entirely possible if they just TRY) then i think the segment will rebound.

local off lease dealer i've bought from before has been getting batches of 06 and 07 sedona / entourage....most of them under 10k miles and the most recent batch of 07's they have been pricing around 15k. it kills me to consider korean pop cans but the sedona has good basic competence. At least you can manually shift the tranny and its kind of got a floor shifter. To me alone, that might be alright to be seen in one of those things. Maybe i should go test drive one again. Its been a couple years.

Is GM taking too much ill will from the markets and press and too much criticism? GM's every move is bloodied and they can't seem to do anything right in many's eyes. Yet Ford and Chrysler seem to be doing things and FOrd in particular seems to be sliding under the radar lately.

Is GM taking too much of a hit? Are GM's issues WAYYYYY overblown?

minivans get better mileage than most crossovers, and they are cheaper, yet mommy isn't sexy at 36 if she drives one and no one has learned how to style one yet.

to me also, vans do not have driver oriented interiors. they are like driving buses.

lambdas are the best compromise so far. that said. no wonder GM has four of them.

really though, reason number one. mommy can't play cougar on the side if she's driving around in a van. women are so obsessed with their sexiness even 15-20 years into marraige. they want to come off as divas and the vans don't work. don't worry, crossovers are headed to that place too. At some point, mom isn't gonna wanna be seen in that dodge journey either.

A Jetta wagon would be interesting...

wolfsburg jettas out now are an amazing buy. sedans, but 2.0 and DSG + sunroof and nice vinyl for 22-23k. i think its even the turbo. how can one beat that?

I'll be getting a different car at the end of the summer, but I haven't decided what I can afford yet. Since I'm out of college and on my own now, I'm waiting to see how much of my salary each month will go toward bills and then hopefully I'll have an idea how much I can afford for a car payment.

I really want a Mustang and even though I would've never considered it before, reality with gas prices and monthly payments probably means I would have to get a V6 unless I get an older one.

Some on my eclectic wish list:

'05+ Mustang or a 87-93 GT

3rd gen or 4th gen Camaro / Trans Am

'08 Malibu

Buick Lucerne

Lincoln LS

Ford Fusion V6 (or a Mercury Milan...used Milans can be had for about the same price and usually have alloy wheels and V6's)

Olds Aurora V8

Mercury Marauder

A G-body Cutlass / MC / GP or Regal

My parents are looking to trade the Explorer soon. My mom wants a Lincoln MKX but they will probably end up getting an Edge.

try to squeeze another year or so out of your car now and keep it as a winter driver and then splurge on the new 010 mustang, by then i think it should have the 3.7 duratec instead of that whiny 4.0....unless you want a v8

update- VW's look good lately. A GTI, GLI, passat/wagon or jetta wolfsburg might be darkhorses or jetta wagon. Diesels may be too spendy. No Tiguan (too small a cargo area). Any Ford still is in the hunt with the Flex and Edge having the.....Edge. FUsion is off the list, but Focus might still be on. Taurus and Taurus X still on too. Only GM's at this point are HHR SS or Cobalt SS, used Saabs, and G8. Vibe maybe too. The LX chryslers might be a dark horse too, used.

Not sure why but the HHR SS is standing out as a nice GM option lately. G8 would be a no brainer if AWD was optional.

Forgot the Lambdas. Outlook and Traverse are big options. Can't wait to see Traverse pricing.

Bush and his bandits. 8 years of hell and destroying the lives of so many people in this country. Can't we just have the election tomorrow? Doesn't matter, the choices this time suck too. This country is so f-ked.

Last 20 years of bush and clinton and reagan before that. No wonder its all a shthole now.

i've heard GTO's go through tires. not because of burnouts, just the way the suspension is set up.

and everyone wonders why farming is subsidized? if it weren't we'd outsource all our ag, too. then we'd be screwed.