balthazar

You're incorrect, at least in my case. As much below MSRP as my truck was, I know nearly exactly what their profit was (and it was a profit). I nor my wife has ever paid MSRP. My brother has never paid MSRP. I don't believe my father has ever paid MSRP. There's ALWAYS (prior to summer '21) money off. It IS the norm in my experience and those I know. I'll ask politely once more; you are aware of the difference between MSRP and dealer invoice, yes? Dealers do not buy from OEMs @ MSRP.

Other than a plane-change in LAX a long time ago- I've never been to the West Coast. The weather sounds lovely, but many aspects of State regulations don't appeal. That's a terrifically pertinent point.

How can you have worked at 3 dealerships yet never seen a new vehicle sell below MSRP??? I’ll email you images of my truck’s sticker and the purchase contract if you want. Wife’s prior car bought new off lot was well under MSRP also. This can’t be a foreign idea to you, it just can’t be. You are aware of retail MSRP vs. dealer invoice, yes? Holdback amounts, yes? OEMs discount to dealers in order not to take on 2500 locations & employees/costs; to avoid all the expenditures to have local stores on the their books. GM takes over all that dealer-level costs…. how do you figure vehicles prices are magically going to go DOWN?

My wife & I breezily talk about 'where we would move to' when retired... but all we end up achieving is "Well, we're not moving there!" via some news story or learned factoid / weather events/ etc. The 'crossed-off' list slowly grows. I would be fine in a very rural setting but she's a city girl.

- - - - - IMO; 'UberEats' is fine if a customer wants to pay the delivery fee. It's also fine if a business doesn't want to. But what if 'UberEats' was mandatory for ALL restaurant take-out, with no choice?

No... I'm saying the same thing I've been saying all along : the dealership model already offers you choice except you can actually SAVE money vs. MSRP. There's zero discount at Tesla- you pay full retail, always.... just don't delay- price is going up next month.

Most of '21 and possibly going into '23, has been an anomaly. I ordered/bought new in spring of '21 from GM; I was told there's no adjustment on ordered vehicles because technically the dealer never owns it; you are buying direct. I also got it about $9K under sticker. Some dealers may not adhere to that, it's possible, tho it doesn't make any sense that would differ from what I described. One would have to look into it.

We had no cable TV, and antenna reception sucked, so we never watched TV up there. Certainly no computers in the '70s/ '80s /90s. Real simple living, a ton of time outdoors. Kids today would be mostly bored, I expect. I think it worked so well for me, mu sister & brother growing up was the people; our immediate family, extended family, locals to the lake, etc. This Large Mouth came out of that lake, 7th largest in the state that year, 7lb 1 oz, 24” long. Other than teaching my sons to fish, I haven’t fished since, almost 40 years now.

I, too, would never care to pay a 'market adjustment', but I recognize everyone is entitled to ask whatever they want to sell something they own.

Family used to have a cabin lakefront in upstate NY- my grandfather built it in 1970 and growing up my family went there every summer. Hiked thru the woods, explored around the railroad & the old mine works, swam every day. My grandfather spread lots of coarse sand well out, so it was great to walk in / swim. You could see your feet at chest depth. There was a 'float' a ways out, a row boat, I took my sons there many summers, my sister took her girls there. Sold in 2013 as everyone's priorities slowly changed, my grandmother had entered dementia and my other grandfather local to there came to be at odds with our side of the family, and other family/friends there passed away.

Fair enough. Then, perhaps... just perhaps... you may not be up on how businesses are run financially; w-would that be a possibility? IE: Manufacturers & franchises?

Sounds like they estimated too high.

Is that Model Y & Model 3 combined? I see thru Oct the Model Y was only at 105K - I seriously doubt they moved another 85K in just 2 months. Like you said; GM will sell every one they build.

So it IS hypocrisy then?? Kinda thought it looked like it. ? I like all sorts of options here; someone give hydrogen a go... and someone get that peanut oil turbine working!

^ You don't think they run the same set of accounting ledgers, do you???

That’s THREE SLEAZY MIDDLEMEN!!

The irony here is just about EVERYTHING everyone buys is thru ‘sleazy middlemen’, making sleazy profits over & above the manufacturer. Supermarkets; just bulldoze them all down. ?

- - - - - Mercedes' issues are considerable- they claim they are 'the best' yet they've been riding on their coattails for a while now. They're years behind in getting BEs out, those BEs aren't class leading and they don't seem to know how to get them there, and the design language is confused and chaotic (when it isn't simply bland & tired). They also killed off all the V8s across the board, including AMGs; cars that only existed to showcase V8s. Vainly, they're going to try and sell 'AMG' BEs that are going to bring a slim fraction of a percent of the performance gain over non-AMG variants, compared to the gains the IC variants brought. AMG is done.

Blackwings are solidly over $100K and Cadillac will sell every one they make, no problem. And GMC has been selling over $90K already, plus the Denali Ultimate is coming sometime this year (starts at $80K). You can push an Escalade up nearly$50K in options, so you know the Ultimate will go over $100K with ease. And if you don't think GMC buyers spend big money, then why are the AT4 & Denali like 70% of all Sierra sales?

^ A lot of the concerns I've stated echoed here (cost & volume of buyers). 5% in the U.S. only 'preferring' BE for their next vehicle?? And they don't even quantify what span of years "next" might mean (could be 12 years out, or more). Now... I don't consider a pool of 918 individuals representative AT ALL of the country at large, but that's terrible news for OEMs going all in, and embarrassments for politicians spending time trying to get localized bans written into law. Both should stop trying to force agendas and allow it to organically take place.

^ I thought 'the roads were too narrow' outside the U.S. for U.S. vehicles. ? Was looking at a 'roll call' of B-59 owners - seemed 40-some % are overseas (mostly Sweden, Finland, Australia).

Upcycle before 'n after :

I hope it does do well, want to see Chrysler stick around well past its 100th. That said, it’s kinda forgettable.

Wrangler is not competing for the same buyers as pickups, tho, is it.

Same reason you talk about anything other than Jeeps here.