CMG

Look at the V6 mileage and HP vs. V6 Challenger and Mustang mileage and HP: advantage Camaro.

By the time the Camaro debuts the Challenger should have the new Phoenix V6 should it not?

I think you will be VERY surprised........

:AH-HA_wink:

I hear the Camaro is up near 4000 pounds for the V8 model... I'll be surprised if the top of the line loaded Camaro isn't over 4000 pounds. As Agent Smith says, it was inevitable.

All of this hating over the Challenger and in some cases the Mustang. Of course this is to be expected to an extent on a GM board, but we should just be thankful that, for what may be one last time, the 3 American Icons are back to duke it out and piss in the eye of FWD blandess from the likes of Toyota, Honda, and so on.

and

I do agree about the interior, a more retro lookw ould be cool. That being said my only real compaint is the steering wheel, because it's ugly and not sporty at all, other than that the interior is at least good quality and functional.

I agree. And I agree.

I would rather have three domestics battling it out for who likes what than some kid yelling V-Tec every time he shifts....

But that's just me....

I am not a hater...I think it is a decent looking car...just do not think the interior lives up to the heritage of the car and it is out of proportion a bit compared to the original car. I am 1000% glad to see it back on the streets and doing battle against the Mustang and the soon to be released Camaro. I am also 1-million percent glad to see it was not a re-bodied Neon or Omni, as was the case with the Challenger in the 80's.

LOL

The biggest thing that sticks out about your post?

I am also 1-million percent glad to see it was not a re-bodied Neon or Omni, as was the case with the Challenger in the 80's.

Hahaha

OK, so you aren't into MoPars cause you SURE DON'T KNOW YER DAWRDGES!

The 1978 to 1983 Challengers had nothing whatsoever to do with "Neons" or "Omnis". They were Mitsubishis.

As for the original Challenger's "heritage"? Take a look at the original Challenger's door panels in 1970, they are one big piece of plastic. The console? Weird shaped plastic with fake wood. Dash? Rallye cluster had four round gauges that were as accurate as a weather forecast. The present day Challenger could run circles around the original version, in any performance test you could think of, acceleration, braking, handling, gas mileage, drivability, whatever.

The new cars are a completely different breed, they can't be compared to the original cars in anything except for looks, and 1970 cars could get away with looking so good because functionality often took a back seat to form back then.

I think I know now why I find the new Challenger a disappointment.

The original had a very wide low slung look to it, which I like.

The new one is more upright, taller in appearance, and just plain massive looking for a pony car.

I guess your heart will be with the Mustang, because the Challenger and the upcoming Camaro are extremely similar in dimensions. Both the Camaro and the Challenger have a very bulky feel to them when sitting beside a Mustang.

Lotsa nice Mustangs though...

I saw a black Challenger yesterday, and it's truly got the "WOW" factor.

I know alot of you are biased etc but wait until they are more common on the road, they are a nice looking car, the performance and comfort will be icing on the cake.

If they can sell these for MSRP or less they will be selling quite well IMO.

The more the Camaro is changed away from the original concept the less I like it. (Excluding the interior, ANY change to the concept's interior I would like.)

Hopefully the announcement will be an all new interior.

What do I not have a clue about? Ok, so the Chrysler building was officially sold the 9th, not a week ago. It still has nothing to do with anything on this website, be it GM's crappy financial situation, Chrysler's crappy financial situation, Ford's crappy financial situation or Toyota's comparatively fantastic financial situation.

You are starting to catch on Satty!

*pats him on the back*

Add a hint-Read the first post, it's sarcastic humor.

Both the General Motors Building and Chrysler building have sold recently to foreign interests....now that is prophetic

Don't let Satty find out!

LOL!!!!!!

There.

I fixed my original post.

:AH-HA_wink:

Wasn't that like a week ago? And wasn't it sold by a German firm to an Abu Dhabi firm? Does this have anything to do with the fact that Chrysler isn't in a good financial situation?

It has nothing to do with the fact that GM isn't in a good financial situation.

I don't remember posting a link to any company's financial situation.

I think your Mommy is calling, shut down Nexopia and get off the computer!

OK, the Chrysler BUILDING sold.

So when Ven or reg or somebody posts that CHRYSLER sold, search it!

It is the Chrysler BUILDING, not Chrysler Corp.

:AH-HA_wink:

OR SATTY, the guy who doesn't have a clue!

I just searched as best I could, the same magazine (Edmunds) tested a Mustang GT and got a best time of [email protected] at the track. Maybe track differences, driver differences etc are better compared with the same magazine?

From

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...65/pageId=61306

Mind you, that was a 2005 Mustang GT, but I can't find Edmunds numbers for any of the newer GTs.

I'm sure there are faster times out there, I have personally watched a 13.9 Mustang GT at my track...

so 1/4 mile times are just under a mustang GT 1/4 i saw on past times...

Huh?!?!

Most Mustang GT times I've seen at our track were high 13s low 14s...

The Challenger is like every other LX car I would think, torque limited for the first 5000K or something. I'm sure high 12s will be fairly normal as we have many very high 12 second four door LXs at our track... the Challenger is a couple hundred pounds lighter.

The 2009 Challenger comes with a manual tranny and better gearing if 1/4 mile times are your main thing...

:AH-HA_wink:

I'm starting to like these cars as I actually see them on the road, this video sure is a good one....

I always thought the current TL was a very handsome looking car. This, not so much.

Hard to elaborate on that.....

what do you think of the LX cars, Vioer, and new Ram?

I think the LX cars are exactly what is described above by moltar- "distinctively American RWD cars".

I bought one with our families hard earned cash, so I must obviously like them.

I think the Viper is gorgeous, and a great performing car. It ooozes personality. I think the Corvette offers better bang for the buck, but it doesn't offer the same kind of appeal as far as I'm concerned.

The new Rams are actually pretty nice. I've REALLY liked the Dodge Ram pickups since the 2002 or so, they are great trucks IMO.

The Calibers are entry level cars to me, they do what they do at a fairly cheap price to get into, but they aren't my cup of tea. Same goes for the Sebrings etc... The SRT4 Caliber appeals to the enthusiast crowd because it's an enthusiast's car, the base Caliber won't because it isn't IMO.

I just rented a PTCruiser, it's a cheap car, it was pretty good for what it was except for wind buffeting at highway speeds with the rear window(s) down. Thank God it had A/C, the buffeting drove me nuts!

LX cars, owned one, decent car, but that was 15 years ago when they brought out that chasis and they no longer build it.

OK, what am I missing?

PLEASE COME IN OFF THE LEDGE!!!!!!

Hahahaha

I think that all the time at C&G, wait and see if it's rumor/gossip/speculation or not.

I believe what I see, not what I read on the internet!

I can't picture GM building the Camaro and bailing out of a performance version. I'll just wait and see for myself.

LOL!!!!!!!!

Lotsa guys named Tom are gonna be scooping them up! Tom's Cruze!

Also, speculation blows. (pardon lack of eloquence)

I'm reading how GM will be bankrupt on my MoPar board daily, everything they do seems to be terrible.

I come here and read the opposite.

LOL

Brand blindness is a funny thing.

I've always loved Mopars, weird and off the beaten path MoPars that is....

(Only owned ONE VW!- 1969 Squareback!)

I find it difficult to swallow after reading the reviews of the Aveo in Consumer's Reports etc...

Time will tell.

GM's bankruptcy will be around the corner for those writing with an agenda, and it will be impossible for those writing with a different agenda.

All domestic manufacturers will have to find a way to return to profitability or pay the price, and SPECULATION about one company or another won't help, but it will put smiles on the faces of those who have a vested interest in it all....

We agree on Chrysler .

I bet WE don't agree on Toyota....

:AH-HA_wink:

Chrysler is in trouble and you can’t pretend that’s not the case.

ALL THREE DOMESTICS are in trouble, but you have blinders on.

:AH-HA_wink:

Chrysler doesn't have the same foreign markets to rely on, yet they also don't have the same massive debt as GM does.

They are BOTH in trouble. Different troubles, but both are in trouble. The American economy isn't in a position for the general public to be out buying new SUVs and V8 vehicles to bail them out.

The Camaro couldn't be coming out at a worse time, the Challenger was even late to the party..... Two cars that COULD HAVE made an impact will probably make a lot less of an impact on domestic sales because of the debut timing.

I have a feeling alot of "brand" guys will be wincing as the stories continue to come out about financial difficulties about "THEIR" brands.

I will be wincing about every domestic story, I'm a domestic car enthusiast.