IbuyGM

You know, it would be great for GM to come out with all these cars that are awe inspiring to us, like a Camaro, or an old Nova, but seriously, we are one fraction of what GM markets to. We are car guys and women. The number 1 and 2 selling vehicles are the Toyota Camry and the Honda Accord. The majority of people who buy are vehicles are familes, looking for family cars. FWD, great gas mileage, and a distinctive look. Thnk about it, it costs 1 billion dollars to start an assembly plant. So Wagoner and company can say, yeah, lets build a Camaro at the plant with a possibilty of selling 40,000 a year, or a family sedan, that will sell 400,000 a year. We have to think like that. The average GM assembly plant produces roughly 16,000 (2 shifts) vehicles a month. So after 3 months, the Camaro plant has nothing to build. But okay, so you add a couple of other niche products to be assembled there. They are a success for awhile and then bam, the market is no longer there, so you add crazy incentives and then layoffs. Unfortunately, that plant is still costing money along with the workers. GM needs to build profitable vehicles, not play catch up with whats popular right now. The GMT 900 should be a success, if gas goes down or if/when the hybrid comes out. I think Wagoner is on the right path. Mark Laneve did wonders for the Cadillac brand and is currently leading GMNA towards the right path. GM has been much worse off before, and they will survive. Like a report I read said, GM has third most amount of cash on hand at 30billion dollars, well 27.5 after the 2.5 billion loss of the first two quarters. I have faith Wagoner will get the job done and he will be forever named as a GM legend.

RAZORSTUBLE, Its funny how you are the only one that is saying I am a fool. Please, if it is such garbage and easier for you to see, please tell me. I dont see it. However, I do see you skirting a lot of issues I brought up. So please mister education organize labor member. Please tell me what is so wrong with what I said, especially since I have been asking for that for the past three days. The public perception of a typical union member is you, Razoredge. I see few supporters for your point of view and many supporters for ours. I also, see as I read, that you skirt any issue brought up that is detrimental to your arguments. You also ramble on about the same things over and over. Why dont you answer the question about all the lawyers, doctors, insurance agents, and such that go into offices everyday? What about how fortunate you are too have a job? Come on Razoredge, answer our questions. Quit skirting the issues and telling us all that we speak garbage. As for the entire healthcare issue, I think that socialized medicine, not the canadian way, but the right way, taking lessons from everyone who has done it, might be a better idea. First, everyone should have to take cuts. White colored workers had to and so should blue.

sciguy- but they are teachers. I mother in law is a teacher. So i might be somewhat bias, but i see her work from 8am to 7pm. And the rumor about summers off is false. She is in training all summer for free. I just think teachers, if anyone deserve more. I know I could not put up with any child being mouthy or disrespectful to me, and also it is more dangerous nowadays as a teacher. My mil teachs 4th grade, in a K-6 school. She found a bullet one day while walking the halls. Not to say there was a gun or that other jobs arent as dangerous, but teachers do deserve a little more. And they dont get overtime, so that 11 hour days, five days a week, really minimilize a 50k year salary. And not to mention the tests and ways of standardized teaching these days. So I somewhat respectfully disagree, but I can see your point, Thanks for not calling me a name But I know we can all agree, even you razoredge, that Pro sport unions should be vanished.

Razoredge, I have so much experience and knowledge with unions that it is unfathomable. And skidmark, just like a union member, resorting to childish name calling. You didnt respond to my post and I wanted to set things straight. I wanted to set the record straight about things you supposedly said that I said. And it is funny how you keep skirting the issues I point out. Now please, dont resort to calling me names and also do not assume what I do and do not know. The stuff that happens in Buick City happens everywhere. And those cases are not isolated incidents. It is the same groups of people that cause all problems. Now with the teachers, what local paper was that? I know a lot teachers that do not make enough money. I feel teachers are the only right to have those demands. With the lack of respect children have for their teachers and the households most children come from nowadays, teachers deserve more. Remember, we all would not be where we are today if it was not for teachers. Now the unions that should cease existence is, All Pro Sport unions. As for the UAW and other trades unions, they are generally good for society. However, a lot of the union works in this USA, are older and used to a standard of pay and benefits. They all say "Oh these crisises have happened before, it will pass" but unfortunately, GM and others crisises are not going to go away as easily this time. Plants will be closing and jobs will be terminated. I hope all unions accept a little responsibility to help their company because bankruptcy and others can happen. Look at Delta and Northwestern. And also, remember one thing, the paychecks the union remembers receive do not say UAW or IBEW, it says the company's name on it. The only contribution the union makes to the actual check is a monthly deduction for dues.

Well since Razoredge did not reply to my long post: Once again, Razoredge, SHUT UP. You obviously did not read anything in my post. Also, the trend I have noticed about the union supporters, is they seem to have an excuse and a finger to point on every topic.

[attachment=37:attachment]New Camaro?

I know how you feel razoredge, you never responded to my post either. Oh well, thanks for the constructive argument. It was good.

Where's Razoredge now? I really want him to read my most recent post. Hmmm.... where is he

Once again, Razoredge, SHUT UP. You obviously did not read anything in my post. From your post (#) and then my response (a) 1. People attack me because I say what they don’t want to here a. People attack you because of your arrogance 2. Its amusing you think anyone that didn’t go to a school that gives money to people called teachers has not learned a thing and has more of what you call skills. a. Where did I say this? However, I did say, “I personally think, if you can provide for yourself and your family, then I applaud you, college grad or not.” I never said I have more skills than a non-college grad. 3. Yet I know how unskillful the average person is. Its painful to watch. Millions of Americans walk into offices of some sort everyday and do absolutely nothing, at least not anything that needs to be done. Yet, you all seem to think the world owes you something because you went to college a. The average person can be unskilled. But with all these Americans walking into offices everyday doing absolutely nothing, or at least not anything you think needs to be done, is not your choice and should not be any of your concern. It is the companies that employee these people decision. Worry about what you do everyday. The economy is a chain reaction. If all these people were fired or not busy at work coming up with new ideas for others to implement, then “it would trickle down to you, me, and everyone else. I also never said the world owes me more because I went to college. I go to work, work hard, and earn a paycheck, never complaining. I can put food on the table, clothes on their backs, and a roof over their heads. I am grateful and blessed. So instead of saying you are underpaid, look at it from a different perspective. 4. The ones doing all the complaining are anti-blue collar people: a. My post was not complaining. Also, on topics such as this, its equal input from both sides. I just acted as a mediator. 5. I guess you assume someone like myself has never spent time around college graduates? Perhaps you figure I hold all their knowledge and skills in awe? Perhaps you figure I have never learned a thing or developed a “skill” since that last 12th year class? a. I think you need to develop your reading skills better. 2nd, I once again never mentioned any of these points. Personally, I have learned a ton from non-college grad co-workers because they had the practical experience. Once again, I never faulted you for not having a degree. 6. Then take the not doing anything about it part, that is what organization is all about, doing something about being underpaid. That’s what I spend time here for, I’m doing something about the arrogance that exists in the world where people such as yourself think its OK form more than half the working population of America to be working poor. Like we don’t know the revenue that’s created by the tasks we perform a. I have not spewed arrogance. I challenge your statistic about over half of the working population of America to be working poor. I want proof. And a lot of the reasons people believe they are poor is because of credit cards, buying expensive houses and cars, and LIVING BEYOND THEIR MEANS. Its called GREED. I highly doubt you are underpaid. “Your worth is determined by how much someone will pay you.” That’s how things get value. The problem with being “unskilled” meaning non-college grad, is there are a lot of people who will accept a job at a lower pay then hiring a union worker who will not. In this day and age, its tougher to succeed without a degree, especially in the younger generations. Like I said, its better to have a lower paying job, than no job at all. 7. “What makes me worth so much less” a. I never said you were worth so much less than me. I put my pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else. What are the important tasks you perform? Same as mine, providing for a family. I say shut up because of you think the world is out to screw you and because you didn’t read my post well. I notice you didn’t hit on these points, why, damaging to your argument: 1. “The Jungle” working conditions 2. The hurricane which ravished cities and peoples lives, and your ability to escape if you were down there 3. Enjoyment of a decent living 4. Because without a company, there is no union Why don’t you carefully re-read my last post and this one before you try to attack me for things I didn’t say. And razor, my dad was a union member, and he never complained once either, or ever went on strike. He was happy to provide and see the smiles on our faces. But he didn’t like the job after awhile. So you know what he did? He got a degree and then a Masters in Business.

Prayers do come true

Its unfortunate to have polished finger nails. People of non-union jobs cannot cut manual labor. I guess I wasted all that money and hard work completing an engineering degree. I thought this discussion was about the UAW, not all the unions in general. UAW does have it somewhat easier. But seriously, fighting the oil company for fair living conditions and higher pay, please, let me get my violin. You ever read "The Jungle?" Work in those conditions and then complain. God, a job is a job. You chose your profession by working blue collar and not furthing your education. I dont believe people that say I never had the chance to go to college for this or that reason. Well, that is the choice you made. Everyone has the chance to go to college, especially nowadays. So really, if you dont like your job or something, change it. That is the problem, American people will just complain but not do anything about it. All of us on this site all enjoy somewhat of a decent living, union or not. Really, lets all just agree to disagree. Unions in the past where very helpful, unfortunately some union members, not all, have given the organized labor front a bad name. So tell those few people to shut up. Accept cuts that help the company to stay afloat. Because without a company, there can be no union. If they file bankruptcy, then they dont have to pay your salary or benefits. I run into a lot of people who try to fault me for getting a higher education. And I run into a lot of people who fault non college grads for not getting a higher education. I personally think, if you can provide for yourself and your family, then I applaud you, college grad or not. However, union members who complain about everything, oh well. Want to change it, get a degree. Because today, one does not have a lot of options without a college degree. I also will not be suprised if one day, all blue collared jobs, require a college degree. The more technology increases, the more education will be needed. And Razoredge, the only reason people are attacking you is because you say the stuff that make me want to say "Shut Up." If a hurricane hit you, would you be able to leave. Yes! SO think about it that way. You have a job that allows you to provide for your family and also, provide internet services so you can post on this website. You could have it a lot worse, and that goes for everyone else. Lets be thankful.

Okay Insiders, What do you know about the GMT900? The point is, we dont know who were the insiders until now and how is someone new to this site supposed to know that a member on here has been right before? And just because someone else on here doesnt claim themself as an insider, does not mean they have insider info also

I am new to this forum also, and do not know about the insiders. I dont blame ss247 or trevormac for questioning because I would also. I know that if you actually work for GM, you have to sign a confidentiallity agreement to not disclose any information. So I wonder would these insiders really risk there job for the good of this forum. Probably not. I believe they are insiders, and if you say they have been right before, then even better. My personal feelings, unless you are actually working on a new design project, or the head of GM, 1. you wouldnt disclose a thing, 2. everyone else found out by hearsay or reading about it. But Bless the insiders, without them, we really would be lost.

Yeah. So glad to read this. They should have even more to gloat about if the GMT 900 SUV's gas mileage is better.

Hello, I am new to this site. I have been reading this forum recently and really enjoyed the threads so far. That is a great shot and it does appear to be in the USA. But does anybody think this pic could have come from us from Canada? just a way for GM to bypass any federal laws, which I still dont think would hinder them from testing a vehicle. Regards