siegen

Here's the only pic I've seen without the models in the way..

It certainly isn't anything special or distinctive, but it isn't ugly. If GM can give it a high-tech image, people will talk about it and want it.

Honda of Japan loved the Acura CSX so much that it served as a template for the JDM Civic.

I love how TTAC blasts Detroit for badge engineering and that is exactly what the CSX is, but it gets 4 stars.

The bias swings both ways. But I don't like this Canadian rebadge anymore than anyone else. And now that the Civic offers leather (at least here) it makes a car like this even more irrelevant. I heard that this will be the last generation of the Civic rebadge, but who knows.

If they kept the RSX they would have no need for this car.

What exaggerations? Want me to take a video of the CRV screaming uphill at 5,000rpm? I notice it because it annoys me so much to drive it.

As for comparing an '08 Malibu to an '08 Accord using an '04 Malibu's numbers..... sure... if the numbers on the '08 Malibu are worse than those on the '04 like the CRV's..... go for it.

Who here doesn't think that a heavier vehicle with less torque at a higher RPM will perform worse than a lighter vehicle with more torque at a lower rpm? Sorry man, the 5-speed isn't going to help you that much.

I can't attest to the new or old CR-V, however peak numbers do not tell the whole story, you should know that. Take the new TSX for example, which despite a hefty 200~ lbs weight gain and no increase in displacement or gears, manages to be just as fast in timed acceleration runs as the old model, and faster in part throttle low/mid range rpm driving.

As far as exaggerations. I can't speak to the driving experience of the 2nd gen (or new) CR-V, but here are a few quick ones just scrolling down.

"and you can't NOT hit 2,800rpm in a CRV.... not without causing an accident anyway"

"twice the weight, aerodynamics of a brick, twice the power, and about 10 times the utility" - 4 right there

"my grandmother's broken hip can offer more torque"

"300hp Avalanche"

None of these serve to help prove an argument. That's all I am saying.

FFS some of you make me sick. If GM kept the concept look it would've never achieved the mileage, and then you all would've bitched that GM failed to deliver on it's promise. Personally I like it alot, it has MUCH more style than any other hybrid out there.

Not so much the mileage, but it would have been nearly impossible to meet safety requirements, not to mention the packaging requirements, of a modern mainstream family sedan.

The concept was a design concept. I am not surprised one bit by how it turned out, and it still might not look bad.

4wd, same route, loaded with people and luggage, 4-speed auto, yet twice the weight, aerodynamics of a brick, twice the power, and about 10 times the utility, yet I still got 19mpg and it wasn't sluggish nor screaming up to 5,000rpm just to hit real world highway speeds. 2003 Avalanche.

I just looked up the 2007 CR-V. Power rating when from 160hp @ 6000rpm to 166hp @ 5800rpm and 162ft/lbs @ 3600rpm to 161ft/lbs @ 4200rpm! At the same time weight increased over 200lbs!! Sure... the '07 has a 5-speed, but they really need a 10 speed to keep it in the power band!

Of course the Equinox that everyone likes to poo on around here has 185hp @ 5200 RPM and 210ft/lbs @ 3800 RPM.</off topic>

The Escape I4 has 171hp @ 6000 RPM and 171ft/lbs @ 4500 RPM with a 6-speed and manages 28mpg.

The CRV sells on badge.

It gets so tiring responding to posts like these. You're using your own personal experience of an '04 CR-V to make a judgment on the '09 CR-V versus '09 Escape. What if I tried to make a comparison of the '09 Malibu and '09 Accord based on my experiences with an '04 Malibu? Your posts are filled with exaggerations which further reduces their credibility. It doesn't matter what vehicle is actually better (again, I don't care, the Escape with 2.5L and manly styling would probably suit me better if I were to ever even consider a vehicle in this segment), just stop making such incredibly baseless arguments.

I've rebuilt cars in the past. I keep this car operating in top shape. The '04 CRV with AWD and automatic was rated at 25mpg highway.... and it's not like Honda's numbers back then weren't a bit over inflated.

It has 160hp at 6,000rpm and 162 ft/lbs at 3,600rpm. That right there is explanation enough for why it's screaming at 5,000rpm to get up a mountain at 80mph with it's 4-speed auto.

edit: My avalanche had 80,000 miles and NO rust when I sold it. It was never garaged because it just wouldn't fit.

AWD, higher elevation, uphill, loaded with people and cargo, 4-speed auto on the 2nd gen. That would certainly feel pretty sluggish, I would imagine. I wouldn't want to be in it. But then a RAV4, Escape, Vue, etc would suffer the same. They offer a V6 but in reality the large majority of people own the 4cyl models.

Honda's in the early 00's were known to have paint problems. I have heard that more than once at least. If there were thin spots, that would account for the rust.

I drive a 2004 CRV every day.

The engine is refined but my grandmother's broken hip can offer more torque.

With just two of us in the car, power is barely adequate. With 4 people, luggage and A/C, power is grossly insufficient. The pushrod in the Equinox is much more powerful feeling.

Road noise is LOUD, this is one of my common complaints in all Hondas however.

60,000 miles and there are already rust spots around the rear door hinges. It's been garaged most of it's life.

It returned a paltry 23mpg over a 1,200 mile trek around PA, 95% highway driving. I had to keep it around 70mph out of necessity because any more than that and the engine would be screaming at 5,000rpm <but hey, it's a very refined 5,000rpm> just to make it up the mountains at 80mph. My 300hp Avalanche, never a slouch for power, with twice the weight did 19mpg on the trip to Camino's and back at extra legal speeds.

So... you're right, I can't imagine why anyone would buy another one other than brand.

Your experience might not be common, I don't know. Perhaps the CR-V is in disrepair in some way. I can't comment on it.

Is this a photo gallery of the Volt or a "Men of GM" photo shoot with a Volt backdrop?

If anyone needs incentive to vote McCain/Palin.....

With that hysterical smirk and strong pointing finger, McCain/Palin should have no trouble humiliating terrorists and those radical nations into submission.

Imagine when the terrorists ask for mercy and they get this response:

Just trying to put the fun back into the thread.

i would not be averse to an insight and a honda badge. at that price and mpg. with dealer markup though.....

Given that Honda only plans to sell 100,000 of these here, and the probability that there is enough demand to sell 10x that, there will probably be similar markup as seen on the Fit. There will be dealers that stick to the MSRP, but I would expect the majority to have a markup at least initially.

I don't like how it looks, because I hate how the Prius looks and it is too similar. This is a little better looking, but it is still odd. But no matter how ugly it is, if it gets 70 mpg and costs $20,000 they will sell a ton of them. 70 mpg (even 50-60) is huge.

70 mpg would be a huge stretch. The current HCH is rated to 40/45. The Insight is based on the Fit platform (although larger than the Fit I believe) and is supposed to use considerable weight and aerodynamic improvements, as well as a new IMA system. It probably won't weigh much less than the HCH, so considering improvements in the IMA system and aerodynamic improvements, I would see 45/50 as a distinct possibility, but probably not more.

For $19,000~ and 45/50 mpg it is good. It should be able to pay for itself in short order compared to a similar gas vehicle. The big question is how will Honda package features on it. Will they use an LX/EX approach, with the base model being equipped along the lines of an LX Civic? Or will they just have one well-equipped model with a navigation option? I'm thinking they will use the first approach, as it will make it easier to keep the base MSRP lower and meet the goal.

truth is folks are finding out its a rip off as far as pricing goes and the fact that its not better or even as good as many competitors.

If it is a rip off, folks certainly aren't finding out about it because sales are still as strong as they have ever been.

The CRV exemplifies why having a strong brand rep means everything. There's little justification for its runaway success other than reputation.

Do you really think the brand name has accounted for the current generation CR-V selling 50%~ higher than the previous gen every month since its intro? If it is all about brand name, then why didn't the previous gen CR-V sell at 15-20k per month every month as opposed to 10-15k? Did Honda make their badge especially shiny on the new model to attract 5,000+ more buyers every single month?

You Obama lovers are like starry-eyed schoolgirls. Sad, really, if it weren't also hilarious. How long has he been in the Senate? Has it been 15 minutes yet?

Anyone who is very biased towards one side is a "starry-eyed schoolgirl". Once someone makes an obviously biased comment such as that, all credibility they had is lost and there is no reason to take them seriously on the subject any more.

That's how I see it. I'm still undecided as far as the election goes. Things are just starting to heat up anyway, this is when the true colors come out.

Toyota sales are down 7.8% year-to-date. That's pretty incredible, considering how much momentum Toyota had just last year (up 2.7% last year). What happened?

Regardless of Aug'2007 sales hitting a record high, you'd think with $4 gas & a push for compact 4-cyl vehicles would allow the Honda CR-V to beat last year's numbers... Wouldn't you?

Not necessarily. Like I said, the CR-V sold on the higher side of its average last month, and it was actually an excellent month for it despite the percentage drop. There may have been incentives for the CR-V in August 2007 to drive the sales higher, and no incentives August 2008, I don't know.

What this means to you: If a fuel miser is in your future, Hyundai may be a brand to watch. — Hoseok Park, Correspondent

Another lovely "what this means to you" bit. And what an utterly retarded one at that. I am close to losing it and going on a mass-media-murdering-spree so as to clean out the entire media of its current stigmas and reigning in an era of non-cliche-using unbiased mass media. I could just settle for automotive journalism at least.

Let's at least wait until we see the production version, which will have normal wheels, normal head lights, normal grille, and less LED bling on the front. The basic shape is a 5-door hatchback, which wasn't exactly pioneered by the Prius. It is really the best shape a 5-passenger vehicle can have and be aerodynamic while still having head room for the rear passengers. When you see the cars next to each other, I bet the Insight will be more low-slung, although maybe not by much.

Apparently gigantic incentives on the SUV/trucks too.

Nissan's "bread and butter" vehicles are all very strong (Versa, Sentra, Altima, Maxima).

crv is down what, 18%?

the market is waking up to the fact that the crv is an overpriced, underpowered gas hog with a cheap interior and a wussy exterior.

You need some perspective. Last year's August was a record for CR-V sales (23,192), they sold more in that month than in any other month or since then. Last month sales of 19,866 is right around normal for the CR-V, actually it is on the higher side of the average. I invite you to view the sales records here, and you can see for yourself that the CR-V has averaged between 15k and 20k consistently since the new model was introduced in February 2007. January 2007, the last month of the last gen CR-V, was actually a record for the CR-V at 14,390. The CR-V's consistent sales show that it is still the strongest in the market. Last year's August was a freak month that saw an unusually high number of CR-V sales, and it made this month look bad even though it was actually excellent. I hope that gives you some perspective on your favorite cute ute.

Just FYI, I strongly prefer the styling of the Escape to the CR-V, and if by a strange coincidence I had to purchase one of the two, it would be an easy decision based on styling alone. I wouldn't expect to enjoy either vehicle (I hate SUV's) so driving dynamics and interior quality would probably weigh little on my decision. The hybrid Escape also gets good mileage for one of these.

good to see escape gaining sales and crv losing them. its nice to see customers starting to wise up on that one.

Oh yes, they're wising up. It couldn't be the Escape's 30% fleet rate or the cash on the hood. No way!

I'm still waiting for the Rogue to destroy the CR-V as you predicted...... still waiting.

Wow, what an increase.

Did they launch a new Xterra or Frontier? The increase in sales in those models seems odd given the move towards fuel efficient vehicles.

The three all-new models (Rogue, EX, and GT-R) really help the percentage increase.

The drop in Fit's (12,266 last month) accounts for the drop in sales this month. Honda literally ran out of the '08 model, and the '09 just went on sale a couple days ago (not in time to make a difference for August sales).

Not surprising, but the refreshed RL didn't help sales at all.

Creepy indeed.

A guy from GM came to my house and told me to stop Honda-humping on forums.

Then I took him for a drive in my Integra and he apologized and told me GM would stop building crappy cars.

You're welcome guys.

lol j/k j/k

Oh they will, and they'll be praised for it while being allowed to keep their "green image"

All the while, the Detroit companies will languish without either (A "green image" or competitive V8s)

I believe you're confusing Toyota with Honda again.

There's a huge difference between half a million full-size truck and SUV sales per year and a low volume luxury sports car, supercar, or luxury flagship.

It's been the same song since the V10 was first announced.

Thought that title might catch some attention... :AH-HA_wink:

Acura Sweeps The Alms Podium, Leads Every Lap Overall In Historic Performance On Belle Isle Streets Saturday

Naturally I am extremely excited about this (see sig), because it bodes well for future Acura sports cars, in the same fashion that the original NSX was inspired by F1.