Frisky Dingo

I'd take the used one for the manual alone. The savings and everything else is just a bonus. 

Front lights and grille treatment are quite nice, but the rest is a steaming pile of garbage. What were they thinking??

Man, bench racing is fun. 🙄

Cool. What the car should have been in the first place.

I think that was really a lot of ranting and raving and I'm not sure what to take away from it.

If you think Camaros and Mustangs are even a blip on AMG's radar, you're nuts. This hypothetical car we speak of wouldn't be targeting those cars. It would just so happen to have some overlap with the top of their ranges. This would be a car aimed at the lesser F Types, Cayman/Boxster, upcoming Supra and Z4, and whatever else shows up in that playground in the near future.

7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

There sure as heck is if you include the Vettes. Then they could also possibly steal from some of the Mustang/Camaros that are in that price range as well. I don't see them really taking a lot of those sales but somebody will sit there and say, "what the heck am I spending 70k on a Ford/Chevy?" and then buy the AMG. 

Worse yet is the 50k Mustang GT and Camaro SS. They're great performance cars but they're also pretty steep for a GT and SS. 

Oh, let me tell you right now, if AMG made a bit smaller version of their GT with the new turbo-I6, that fell into the 50-75K range, I wouldn't even be stepping foot in a Porsche, Jaguar, or ANY Domestic dealership.

The only other car(s) that would possibly give me any pause would be a new Supra, and perhaps a 2 door Quadrifoglio.

And I know a lot of other buyers who would feel similarly.

Well, if the AMG GT is anything to judge by, something in this segment could be a very serious rival to the Porsche twins, the Corvette, and lower level F Types. The days of AMG's being dull German muscle cars that are highway missiles only is long gone. They now build very credible threats to the established sports car/sedan set. I say go for it. The GT is so awesome some of its goodness should be available to others at a lower price point.

On 4/12/2018 at 5:34 PM, ocnblu said:

Just get one with the 2.0t and forget about the 1.5

I think a Caribbean Blue or Oakwood Metallic Cruze Premiere RS Diesel Hatch would be the bee's knees.  The new wheels and stronger front end look really good... not sure about the protruding taillights though.

The problem with the Cruze.......is the Malibu. The only thing the Cruze really does well is soft, comfy, and spacious. The Malibu is a nicer car, that is considerably better to drive, with a ton more power, and not really a great deal more money. 

In its segment, I wouldn't even give the Cruze a passing glance. 

Such a shame to see GM saddle the Malibu with a CVT. It is other wise a very competent car that I find quite compelling within it's segment. GM is going backwards with some of their products.

I don't hate it. It's okay. I like the idea of a 2.0T 1LE.

20 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Originally, yes it was only on the GLI. They did bring it back to the entire lineup. I don't know when, but I just checked the site and all the '17s have IRS. 

2014-up are IRS.

As for the car, I'll reserve judgement until I see (and drive) one in person. It doesn't exactly look like a VW to me. And I worry about the driving dynamics, as VW has been a little hit or miss with those as of late.

I will report my impressions at the first opportunity.

Well, it's certainly not a surprise, but GM never let this car reach it's potential. It had a nice chassis, quirky styling, a nice size, but was always just a few steps away from being fully baked. The RS model should have had another 40hp. 

On 3/29/2018 at 3:04 PM, ccap41 said:

I think it's been a few years at this point too. They just haven't changed anything in a long time. Even their fun/toy cars are pretty "meh". 

What is so, SO frustrating about it is that they have all the pieces needed to make good stuff. They have turbo engines, and manual transmissions, and whatnot, they just limit them to 2-3 cars. It's beyond stupid.

They are resting on their laurels now just like 90's Domestic brands and mid-late 00's Toyota. 

I think Subaru has replaced Toyota and Nissan as the most absolutely boring, unimaginative appliance makers on the market. F*** them.

27 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

This is 5 inches longer than the shortest f150 so it really isn’t that far off of the full size crowd

Right, but it's a crew cab.

Looks like an unholy spawn of a Crosstrek, Rogue, and Compass. 

Front 3/4 view is a knockout. Really digging the interior- clean, simple, upscale looking. And addressing CUE's shortcomings. Not a huge fan of the back, but it's not bad. In all, a quite solid effort here. 

A very good execution of an idea that could have ended poorly. Clean up and tone down the lighting elements a but as Cap said, and this is on-point. Surprised and impressed w/ both of VW's concepts here.

18 hours ago, dfelt said:

Side Profile  Reminds me of a modern take on the Aztec.  

Yeah, not a very flattering photo there. It needs more aggressive fender flares that connect to the rocker cladding. Also, from what I've seen, this thing looks better in neutral colors.

Nice to see the new engine and AWD availability, but ultimately nothing compelling here if you ask me.

Wow. Looks fantastic. Bravo, Lincoln. This brand may finally be getting it's act together.

Color me impressed. I was worried there wouldn't be enough to separate this and the standard Atlas, but VW seems to have done so. I really like what I'm hearing on the powertrain front. Though, I notice both of these attractive power figures include hybrid technology. While I don't necessarily have anything against that, it paints a grim picture of hoping for more powerful VW gas engines. How soon can they implement this tech? Other VW models are need of more power.

2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

That would NOT be the consumer's fault...

THAT would be how your PAY structure is formed...

Like I said, the industry needs to change. If you are getting paid ONLY if you sell a car...take it up with your industry. 

I read about the part where the conversation lead to the service industry...

YOUR job as a salesman IS to service everybody that comes in to your dealership. 

If I wanna take 1 year to look at cars THEN to buy....lit is MY right to do so as a consumer...

YOU say its a waste of time for a salesman to cater to folk like that?

If YOUR industry PAID you by the hour, if YOUR industry  PREPARED YOU to SELL cars PROPERLY, if YOUR industry COMPENSATED YOU like YOU deserve and NOT like a piece of meat, if YOUR industry TREATED YOU like a PROFESSIONAL than MAYBE consumers would TREAT YOU like professionals too...

Instead what we got...is salesmen looking at consumers like THEY are the problem like shyte you just told us...

YEAH!

There are some cars that DO NOT change in 2 years...

Sure, the kid's opinions on what kind of car he like to own WILL change, but you know what? 

The more cars you see, the more you know what YOU LIKE!

A dealership IS A STORE!!!

FIRST AND FOREMOST!!!

Who are YOU to tell a consumer when he can or cannot visit?

I told you, do NOT put the onus on the consumer for the downfalls of YOUR industry...

What difference does it make to a salesman what the consumer tells you?

If a consumer has his guard up...there is a REASON for him to be THAT defensive...

Maybe it is true that he is looking to buy 6 months from now...

Like I said...if YOUR industry gave salespeople ALL the TEACHINGS on HOW to sell properly, lessons on what the car you are selling, what features it has got...yes...real lessons, instead of just making the salesperson learn on his own, paid salespeople an hourly wage, a FAIR hourly wage, a recognition that car salespeople are professionals, that the industry itself BECOMES professional...then salespeople would NOT look at consumers like they are a problem...

Like how phoqued up is the phoquing industry when salespeople are looking at people coming into a store a when salespeople do NOT get the answer they are looking for...they view THAT as wasting time?

Wasting time?

Yeah...lets tackle this...

Its a STORE!

A DEALERSHIP IS A STORE....

OPEN FOR BUSINESS.

 

And look....all those people...kicking the tires on all these products...

What is the point?

Technology changes every 6 months, right?

So why bother informing yourself?

yes, a used car that you like today will not be there tomorrow if you dont buy it now!

And yes...decisiveness IS a waste of time....BUT ITS A FACT OF LIFE IN YOUR INDUSTRY!!!

LIKE I SAID...LET THE INDUSTRY PAY FOR YOUR TIME...

No...you dont sell cars, your ass is gone. But maybe, if the industry ADAPTED its technique, maybe just maybe, consumers would be more sympathetic towards their salesperson...

 

If you want to take a year to buy a car, be my guest. I didn't say you don't have the right to. But I also have the right to not spend my time on you when the next guy is ready to buy a car today. If you understand that, you're just dense.

My greater point, which you and others are glossing over is that by shopping several months to a year out, you are wasting not just the salesman's time, but YOURS.

Call up a realtor and ask them to show you a house you may be interested in buying in a year. See how that goes for you. Or better yet, how would you like it if somebody came into your restaurant, asked about half the stuff on your menu, and then said they weren't hungry anyway and they weren't planning on eating there that day. Or even next week. If that person told you that up front, would you make the guy behind them wanting a burger right now wait so you could explain everything to the non-buyer?? And if you were the customer wanting to know everything about the menu, would you not expect the owner/server/waiter/whatever to either A) try to sell you something, or B) or be confused why you were there if you didn't want to eat at that moment??

Apply the same logic to YOUR line of work and try to tell me with a straight face it makes sense.

As for the people in the pictures you posted, if they aren't ready, or close to making a decision, on what to buy, then YES, they are wasting their time, too. Not that hard of a concept to grasp. Maybe I just don't understand going to look at things I am either incapable of, or not ready to, buy. Customers' time must NOT be more valuable than mine, because mine is sure as hell too valuable to do such a thing. I don't go look at clothes if I don't need/want clothes. I don't go look at cameras or phones if I don't need or want a phone. And I definitely don't get off on wasting someone else's time if I'm not interested in buying a product. 

But if those people want to waste their looking at things they have no intentions of buying, good for them. The person working at Best Buy isn't required to wait on them, and they don't get paid to make sales. Cell phone reps do, so stringing them along if you're just 'kicking tires' is effed up, too.

I could go into a tangent about how my industry pays and trains people, but that's a separate matter, and one that could easily be the topic of an entire thread itself. Salesmen are underpaid, and it starts at the top, with the MFR's. They rake in billions while everyone below the owner/GM level makes crap. But most professions are underpaid. I'm not going to complain about that, as it's a pandemic, and it's beyond my control, any way. 

Helping people is under my control, and how I choose to do so is up to me, not the consumer. I've flat out told people I don't want to sell them a car. That whatever I was making wasn't enough to put up with them. And my Mgr will back me up if I do so, because he trusts my judgement. Some people just aren't worth it. If you think a salesman's role is to bend over backwards for you at all costs and allow themselves to be subjected to disrespectful or condescending behavior, you have a very poor outlook. 

52 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

Buying a car can be completely random, though.  I like to plan it out in advance while sometimes you have to buy a car, either because you need to replace one immediately or your dream second car snuck up on you in a manner that you can't look the other way.  The latter is how my Dad, and thus my family, owned its first Pontiac. 

Being in sales in no way guarantees a 1:1 relationship between customer:closed sale.  That's why being in sales isn't for most people and they shouldn't have unrealistic expectations.  Also, the stronger the personality they're dealing with, the more likely the person they're pitching to is likely to walk away if the terms or the general situation doesn't suit them.

I don't know of anyone that expects to have even 1:3 close ration. 1:4-1:5 is pretty stellar. Much of that is luck. But much of it is also on the customer and the salesman.

I can tell within the first 2 minutes how serious someone is. And in next 8-13, if they are still there, I know typically how good of a chance I have of selling them. Knowing those things takes years of practice and experience in what questions to ask, watching the customer's facial expressions and demeanor, etc, etc. You have to know how if you are going to get around the #1 thing most people say straight out of the gate- "I'm just looking."

6 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I find the phrase "I am just killing time here for twenty minutes until I pick up my wife" to work very well at letting a potential salesman know I am not interested in a car today.

I can politely decline telemarketers, people interested in sex (fewer than I would like for the purposes of ego), religious proselytizers, door to door people working to elect candidates, and any other request for whatever.  Just stating your intentions and not being a D$#% will work wonders.

Also, if you want...go when you know they are slow and if you want a salesman's time for questions they are generous.  Go look on a rainy Tuesday morning at the beginning of the month.  Chances are you will find a showroom full of bored sales people who will be more than willing to answer questions.

My only problem is finding people with decent project knowledge when I do go look.

I would much prefer to hear someone say that than to tell me they are looking at cars and plan to buy entire seasons or years from now.

You're a car guy and just want to walk around and check stuff out, go for it. As long as we aren't busy, and you're cool, I might even might even shoot the breeze with you, open a hood, start something up, etc.

But if you are even remotely close to a year away from buying a car, you're wasting EVERYONE'S time, not just the salesman's. The used car isn't going to be there anymore, and the new car probably won't be the same price. Best case scenario. Barring that, you could die, get fired, win the lottery, or be the recipient of a million other factors that greatly change your buying window, what you spend, and what you spend it on.

I have people tell me they are looking for cars for when their 14yo turns 16, for cripes sake. That's just completely stupid.

And to touch on your bolded part, I know plenty of salesmen with projects!! Lol. 

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That's what shouldn't be difficult though. 

You're planning the next 5 years and tens of thousands of dollars, to piss down the drain, and it's being frowned upon to plan it all out and make sure you buy exactly what you want... 

Oh, please. Nobody here is advocating buying something you don't want or even not putting careful consideration into what you buy. But all of your budgeting should have been done long before you ever step foot on a dealer parking lot. If it still takes you several months to pick out a car from there, then yeah, absolutely you are making it difficult for yourself. After all, you buyers' time is so much more valuable than salesmen's.