Frisky Dingo

24 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

You also said to go when salesmen aren't around. How does one sit in a vehicle without a salesman around? Then they're not supposed to sit in something because they're wasting your time because you don't want to assist somebody who isn't buying within a month. 

Salesmen, generally, suck. Not all, but most. I've dealt with good ones and I've dealt with ones trying to add on everything and go back and forth on prices and talking to people and making it all a sh!t experience. 

Yes, I said to do that as a last resort. If you want a 100% guarantee you won't have to talk to a salesman, go when the dealership is closed. I don't think that's too difficult to understand.

Also, if you don't like talking to salesmen, don't go a year before you plan on buying. I didn't think that one would be hard to understand, either.

For anyone but those with the most hectic schedule, the car buying process should take no more than a few weeks at max. Decide what you can spend, what your needs/wants are, and do some research to see what vehicles fit the bill. Compile a short list of prospects, go look at them and drive them. Once you've done so, pick one you like the most. It's not freaking rocket science. 

If you are shopping cars 6-12 months before buying and/or going to look at a car multiple times- ie, once to see it, once to drive it, etc- and complaining about dealing with salesmen/managers, you are just making it difficult on yourself. 

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

And being forced to avoid them is a pretty big problem. Not wanting to deal with a dealership because the majority of salesmen are jackasses shouldn't be a thing we should have to deal with when preparing to spend tens of thousands of dollars AND put money in their pocket. 

 

1: I've been in the service industry and you do kiss ass plenty. 2: we're actually putting money in the pockets of the salesmen via commissions, maybe they should be a little less dickish and a little more kiss assish. 

Just because somebody isn't buying within a month doesn't mean you shouldn't try and buy that customers' attention and when they do purchase they have somebody they actually like and may refer somebody else to. 

Then rephrase that as "not be a douche". 

You are contradicting yourself.

Topic starts by essentially complaining about overbearing salesmen. 

I say I don't waste my time on someone who is a year away from buying. And that person shouldn't even be at a dealership yet. Because they are wasting their own time, too. And they are putting themselves in the very situation they claim to dislike.

You lose your mind.

2 minutes ago, ykX said:

I don't want a car salesman or for that matter a waiter to "kiss my ass".  I think that is a distorted point of view on their job. 

I just don't want them to try to screw me up in the case of a car salesman.  Unfortunately,  there is a fair amount of dishonest salesmen that cause  a bad perception of the general public.  But being in a service industry or just being in the job working with people is very tough. 

Exactly.

When I go to a nice restaurant, I don't want my waiter to kiss my ass. I want GOOD SERVICE. Those are NOT the same things.

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The salesmans' job is to literally serve the customer the same way a waiter is there to serve the customer at a restaurant. Too bad we can't tip car salesmen based on their performance. Instead they try and get as much from us as possible. 

You be a kiss ass because that's your job. If you don't like the service industry, get a different job. Otherwise, continue to kiss ass. 

Being in the service industry is not about kissing ass. Regardless of it you are a waiter, a car salesman, whatever. 

You are either now just being hateful or, if that is truly your real outlook on people who hold these jobs, you're a fack1ng @ssh0le.

2 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

Two things:

1.  If told up front, the salesperson CAN give you a card, invite you to look around, ask if you have questions, and ask you for your business when you are ready to buy.  That said, I don't buy without having test driven what I intend to buy via a rental of at least 100 miles.  That's how it was with my last 3 cars. 

2.  I almost could see buying a place to live (#1 purchase) more quickly than buying a car (#2 purchase).  The amount of time required of the salesperson in #1 is a lot more involved than for #2 and they need to have passed a test to sell property.  Also, it probably won't depreciate.  As for a property, you can walk around the outside and almost preview the floor plan just from how the windows and doors are laid out.  The few times I've done it, I walked around and walked around the outside and got a good gut feel and, after seeing it inside, which was no surprise, that was it.

1. That was my exact point. Any no reasonable person should expect someone to buy a car without having driven it. In fact, it is detrimental to the process, not an advantage. Your idea of renting one for a bit is an extremely good idea that more people should take advantage of. Even if you like the vehicle on a test drive, there could be some issue you discover after the fact that could possibly have been illuminated by renting such a car prior to purchase.

2. I'm not sure how this pertains to the topic. Of course they put in more time. There are much more documents, more things to be done, etc, etc. They are also much better compensated in general. All that said, I think just like with buying a vehicle, many people overthink home buying and make things more difficult than they need to be.

6 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

There.

I also said 'in the next year' meaning maybe a month, maybe 6 months, or maybe a year.  You took that at the maximum the same way I took what you said at the extreme. 

Yeah, in addition to being a prick today, you must have lost your ability to read, as I clearly said, "If you are a year away....."

I simply pointed out something that people do that is part of the problem they so readily complain about. You don't like salesmen, don't like dealerships, whatever, don't go to them until you're almost ready to buy! Wow, what a concept!

If you are a month away, that's totally different.

7 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Of what value is the salesman's time? They exist to serve customers.    And the customer's time is usually way more valuable than some sales resource...

That's a real shitty way of looking at something. And you want to make salesmen out to be bad guys. You don't even care about the fact you are wasting their time that they could be spending with a serious customer. And you know....getting paid. Which is why they have a job.

And the customer's time must not be that important, because it's a waste of it, too. 

40 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That's just a dick thing to even think. 

Somebody shouldn't go to a dealership unless they're looking to purchase immediately. GTFO with that crap. 

See, in your haste to be defensive, you are now putting words in my mouth. Point to where I said you should only go if you are about to purchase immediately. I'll wait.

39 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

A salesman with a shitty attitude like that should just GFT...

It's not a shitty attitude. It's customers being shitty and wasting someone's time.

37 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

And they wonder why people hate salesmen? 

And customers wonder why salesmen hate them?

Two way street buddy.

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Why wouldn't somebody want to sit in something they might buy in the next year?

 Instead of being like "most" people and not properly planning large purchases, one decides to plan out a 5 year, $20-50,000 purchase, and it's odd that they'd want to check something out ahead of time? 

Seems like they're trying to be responsible and instead are hassled because that's what dealerships do, most of the time. 

If you are a year away from buying something, you have absolutely NO place on a dealer lot other than for service or to buy parts. Don't even try to pull that BS line as an argument. You don't have to worry about me pressuring you for a sale, anyone who tells me they are a year away from buying I cordially give them a card and tell them to have a nice day. I, and any other good salesman have less than 0 interest in wasting time with someone who is a year away from buying a car.

24 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It's very difficult to sit in a car when the dealership is closed.. just say'n. 

Right, but the flip side to this is why do you need to sit in a car you have no interest in buying?

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I will say that I have always set the ground rules when I visit a dealership. I tell the salesperson right up front what I want to do, how I want to do it and the space I need to do it.

I no longer feel harassed as I make the rules very clear and if they break them, I move onto another dealership. Many options for buying an auto out there and if one dealership is a PITA, move on and give your money to the place that will respect you and earn it.

Which is precisely what I advised in my first post. 

I won't turn down any new product that can drive new car traffic into the store at this point, but I don't see this being a major sales success.

On 3/24/2018 at 6:07 PM, oldshurst442 said:

I agree 100% with ALL that you said...

Except that quote which I quoted you on...

I agree with the fact that the salesperson is doing his job.  I also agree that the dealership is there solely to sell cars, and that they need to sell cars any which way they see fit...

But...a dealership IS a store.

A dealership IS open DURING BUSINESS hours to ACCEPT POTENTIAL customers.

A POTENTIAL customer SHOULD be ABLE to VISIT a dealership DURING business hours...NOT before or AFTER business hours.

Yes...the salesman NEEDS to sell cars to live and he needs to do his job the way his boss tells him to. We discussed that.

As a potential customer though...

I NEED TO VISIT A DEALERSHIP WITHOUT THE CONSTANT HARASSING IF I WANT TO BUY THE CAR TODAY.

I NEED THE BREATHING ROOM TO SEE FOR MYSELF.

A SIMPLE NO THANX SHOULD BE ENOUGH...

If a dealership thinks that if a potential client leaves the dealership and that dealership equates THAT as a loss of a sale to another dealership...MAYBE THAT dealership should CHANGE the way they do business and leave the 1950s/1960s/1970s/1980s/1990s where they belong. IN THE PAST!!!

 

Yes. Yes. Yes.

I understand that there is a plethora of undetermined, uninformed morons out there that NEED this type of sales tactic even though they say they dont...

But...the salespeople and the managers NEED to IDENTIFY the differences between the many types of buyers...

The dealerships...should invest in TEACHING their salespeople HOW to sell to people in the 21st century.

The DEALERSHIPS need to get together ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY and CHANGE the INDUSTRY around...

INSTEAD OF FIGHTING with the PHOQUING customer...the PHOQUING INDUSTRY NEEDS TO CHANGE THIS! 

NO! Not the CUSTOMER...HE JUST WANTS TO BUY A PHOQUING CAR.

ITS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PHOQUING INDUSTRY TO CHANGE...

STOP BLAMING THE CUSTOMER AND PUTTING THE ONUS ON HIM!!! 

 

 

I'm not going to argue with you. Instead, I will reiterate my point-

If you do not like the idea of having to speak to someone who is doing their job, don't go while said person is there, ie- while the establishment is closed.

You can try to reason around that all you want, but if go to a place of business while they are open, employees there are going to do their job. That's just the way it is. If you can't accept that, don't go there while they are open.

First, you need to understand the salesman was just doing his job. You don't dictate his job, his Manager does. His Mgr is the one with the authority to discount prices, and he is the one who sets the sales process in place. Nearly every dealership has rules in place for the salesman to check in with management before letting a customer leave. Sometimes they involve the Mgr coming over to talk to you, sometimes they don't. Either way, the salesman has to follow the rules, just like you do at your work. If he doesn't, the Mgr may prevent him from taking any more ups, not give him leads, etc.

My only advice I can give is to tell them up front you are still in the early stages of your process, and that you don't plan on buying anything today. If the salesman needs to get the Mgr before you go, let him do his job. Politely reiterate what you told the salesman to the Mgr. At that point, you should not encounter any resistance in leaving. If you do, that dealer is not a place you want to do business.

If you don't like my suggestion, or the notion that you may have to speak to someone with more seniority than the salesman, than I suggest not going during business hours.

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Where is Mercedes' super cruise? What's the matter? Are they too cheap?

Where is their plug-in with 40 miles ev range? Still too cheap?

Why do Mercede's power trains consistently lag Cadillac's in output for a given configuration? Why does it take a V8 from Benz to exceed a Turbo 6 from Cadillac? Why can't Benz build a Turbo 6 to beat Cadillac without throwing electric motors on it to help out? Too cheap?

Why can't Benz build a suspension that has faster reaction time than Cadillac? I guess they're just too cheap

 

 

 

Or you're just a troll.

Assuming MB/AMG's engines make what they claim, why do they need to make more when they already leave their Cadillac competition in the dust?? 

Why can't Cadillac make an interior even half as nice an MB?

Why are their backseats so small?

Why do their dealers think it's still the 80's?

And to anyone who thinks this is going to outperform the new M5......just lol. That car is a monster. 

53 minutes ago, regfootball said:

nice, but wasnt there just a 2 row atlas concept?  if they plug that dike in their US market here, it will be with a 2 row (cheaper) Atlas.  I think in limited numbers and with the right engine this could sell a few here.

This will be a much different vehicle in execution to the 2-row Atlas. This will be way nicer, and way more capable. 

The Atlas could be 2.0T or 3.6 V6 (or hell, even just make it 2.0T only) w/ FWD or AWD, and the Touareg would be 3.0T V6 only in our market. Atlas would start just under 30K, and like the current 7 seater, run up close to/right at 50K. The Touareg would be starting at that point. They would serve two very different buyers. 

Peugeot

4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That's odd... I thought the Touareg was getting canceled. 

Anyway... this should be proof in the pudding once and for all of who is right about FWD v RWD in crossovers, me or @smk4565.  

Since the Touareg is RWD biased, it should fly off the lots at a much higher rate than the FWD Atlas according to SMK.  Since they're both basically brand new and from the same manufacturer, this is just about the fairest comparison possible. I think the Atlas will do better.  I'll even give the Touareg a percentage handicap based on price (10% higher price means it can sell 10% lower in numbers, etc)

 

Who do you think will win this one?

The Touareg was never in danger of being cancelled. They just had no plans to bring the new one to NA. 

Which I think is dumb. This is the first generation that could have been a sales success, and they are just giving up on it. 

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Anyone who thinks 60 million vehicles recalled for frequently MAJOR engineering problems is reliable is likewise.

- - - - -

I don't 'have it out for' Volvo; volvo's not remotely on my radar. Just making observations especially topical whenever unreasonable fawning occurs. I hear 'incredible!', 'stunning' and I simply look at some studio photographs to see if reality matches up with the elevated hype.

I heard this 20 years ago about BMWs, when they weren't nearly so frequent. So I sought out a few in parking lots and leered thru the window. Completely pedestrian, and always with those giant black steering wheels that color-matched nothing else in the interior. Like a school bus.

Recalls in and of themselves are meaningless. Every MFR has recalls. The scope and cause of them  is dependent upon many, many things beyond reliability.

Wow. Welcome to 2018 Cadillac. Come on in and join us.

There will be no more diesels in the US. So you can forget about that one. Expect our T-Roc substitue to be powered by the 1.4

Anyone who thinks Ford is even in the same dimension as Lexus in regards to reliability is delusional.

Yeah, who would want a drop dead gorgeous N/A V8 GT with bullet-proof Lexus reliability and resale when you could get a slightly quicker, slightly cheaper E Class that is devoid of character and looks like just like the base $450 lease special C Coupe that every secretary aspires to own to show she's made it??

Quite possibly the most generic and anonymous appearing car (relative to it's price) I have ever seen. Wow.

This will be much shorter in length than the current Atlas. Think Touareg size.