El Kabong

Better solution: ban the troublemaker. Lord knows it's been done before.

I've never really lusted after a motorcycle. Then I saw the new Indian Chief.

You are correct. Nobody from Admin has directly told me who's doing what. But, I do know that when I complained about the downvote situation a couple days ago my count stabilized. Went up a little, even. Then I posted that link about Aventador/Ford GT pricing, and he tried to deny it existed. Well. You'd think I'd peed on Henry's bones. And of course, I have his history of personal potshots, stalking, and ban history. Bottom Line: he ain't worth the trouble. And I suspect that message is sinking in amongst those whose opinions count around here.

The troll tries to use it to shut down dissent. He's done it to me twice now. It's pathetic. I tire of accommodating his childishness. Why should I? I post stuff that you may or may not agree with, but it's always backed up with good sources. Nope. His actions are petty, stupid, possibly unhinged (his rant about posting what he does because I am apparently a one-man PR weapon against Ford was amusing/troubling in equal measure), and wholly inappropriate in a place as nice as this. Finally, I'm not here to hold his hand. Nor should anyone else be. I still cringe at the way he was trying to talk in circles around Dowdell in the GM DOHC V8 thread.

I don't mind the rivalry. I do mind the childishness. The reality is that the Camaro is shaping up to be something really special. And I celebrate that. I cannot help it if the competition cannot/will not/ain't interested in bettering the car. What I DO notice is the lack of hysterical whining from the Mopar brigade. Clearly they're part of the rivalry too, right? Nope. Wings is the problem. And he has been, wherever he has gone, for years. It's too bad. Now, let us discuss the Camaro. 27 grand for an easily-tuned example that will hit 60 in the mid-fives stock? Yabba dabba do!

I'm the one whose gotten downvoted nearly forty times in the last week simply by posting opinions that the trolls don't like. Sorry. Ain't going to be shouted down. Last time I was downvoted like this the downvotes were suspended and my rating took off, just because obsessive trolls couldn't reflexively shoot me down. In the meantime, wings' count languished deeeeeeep in the red, because everyone knows what's what with him. His downvotes were, therefore, legit. He posts a lot as a guest now, probably because you can't downvote guest troll posts. In other words, even he knows he's the issue. Anyhow: onward! :D

Given that the Z06 is several hundred pounds lighter and is able to hit 60 in the low threes, I doubt this will be a problem. The CTS-V is similarly good.

It's the childishness of it that is the problem. The troll wants to reject our reality and substitute his own. Ain't gonna happen.

In the last three weeks I have seen a Nissan Figaro and a Nissan S-Cargo. The old-school kei-cars are coming!

Normally I would agree. But in some cases it doesn't matter what approach you take, some folks simply will not get the message. Ultimately you may just be better off leaving things as they are, since I'm pretty sure most of us realize that the voting system is just a symptom, not the actual problem.And this link provides definitive proof. Using downvotes to try and stifle dissenting opinion (supported by third-party links, no less) is pretty lame... but we have a poster who openly admitted to it. It needs to be dealt with. I suspect there have been previous attempts. But clearly they did not work. http://www.cheersandgears.com/topic/85573-ford-gt-coming-with-630-hp-and-539-lb-ft-according-to-forza-motorsport-6/page-3

They're just children. They take their lead from the guy who openly admits to using the voting system to try and bully other poster, and who thinks I am a one-person campaign against Ford. Pathetic.

I didn't even know I got the downvote for that. A certain someone is probably soiling his diaper again. Yup yup yup. He's melting down again.I didn't even mention Ford. What a baby.

Hyper: GM pricing the four-banger at 27 grand was absolutely the right thing to do. They may not have hyped the tunability of this engine as much as you woulda liked, but at least they never lost their minds marketed/priced it as the mid-level engine. The kids can afford it. There will be hoonage.

GM doesn't appear to care about that anymore. I'm calling it at 640.

Just checking on curb weights for the old ZL1. The lowest I could find was MT, who had one that weighed in at 4,051 pounds. Now... Subtract 200 pounds, minimum, from that. You've got a roughly 3800-pound car. Probably with CTS-V power. Now, go read the CTs-V reviews. This thing's got potential.

October 16 is the date MT's first drive report will break (of course Jalopnik will break it, because Jalopnik. Still). On that day, I'm guessing that we will see why the SS will be worth every penny of that 37 grand. We will probably get a feel for the differences between the four and the V6, and we will probably get hard numbers shortly after that, since production at Lansing is just starting to come online. Given that the competition is heavier and rarely purchased bare-bones, I expect price to be a complete non-issue. Speaking as a former Camaro owner, I suspect that I will be a future Camaro owner.

The '02 Camaro, however, WAS a different case. It's acceleration numbers were still not moved on from the classic pony car era (though they were pretty much at the tipping point). Thus, some old-timers likely groused in the same way you currently are. I can't say if the grousing was justified because I don't know what the buying power of a dollar was back in the day. But this new SS is light-years beyond any of its predecessors. Like I said, I fully expect that some hoon/reviewer will sneak it into the threes to 60. That's the kind of number that would make people's heads explode back in the Sixties. And we won't even begin to discuss the handling or braking. In the meantime, credit GM for at least setting up a fairly constant dollar/hp scale with the four-banger. The only thing you don't get from the old F-body is the exhaust rumble. And the rear axle tramp/judder. And the flexi-flyer chassis. And the Fisher-Price plastics. And the Caprice Classic steering wheel. And the weird tumor in the passenger footwell where the catalytic converter used to live. And...

But a 2016 Camaro four-banger starts at 27 grand and matches that old smallblock's numbers.

If they go with the LT4 I'd expect it to be the wet-sump version, possibly detuned to 630hp or so.

"It's expected that the ZL1 will ditch the current supercharged 6.2-liter LSA V-8 in favor of the new supercharged 6.2-liter LT4 V-8 engine used in the [CTS-V and Z06]. We don't know what the power output will be, but we expect it to surpass the current model's 580 hp... the 2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 will make its debut next year, likely at the 2016 Detroit auto show. Production should begin later that year." Here's the link: http://m.motortrend.com/wot/spied_2017_chevrolet_camaro_zl1_muscles_its_way_around_the_ring.html

It's a car that will almost certainly break into the threes in 0-60, it's going to corner at roughly 1g sustained, and it's going to ring in at 37 grand. It's absolutely ridiculous that all this comes from the factory with a full warranty.

Here's the link: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/frankfurt-auto-show/news/a26699/the-510-hp-alfa-romeo-giulia-qv-is/ Well. For better or worse, life in Sergio's World is rarely boring. Nener mind that Alfa just pounded the snot out of the M4. It also pipped a Lamborghini!

Fuel range for an SUV will, in theory, be an even larger issue in the backcountry than it is on the road, simply because off-roading is, well... off-road. You can always throw a jerry can or two in an Escalade. Good luck throwing extra batteries or a generator in the Tessie.

What are you calling fanboy posts? Here's an example: my Camaro thread. I could have done what GMI did and used the original press release from GM as my starting point. And it would have been fluff. But, I saw that C/D's write up also had some other details and original content that were of interest. So I cited that link instead. Nothing fanboyish about any of that. I even refrained from mentioning potential competitors because some anonymous folks in here have had their undies in a bunch lately. The numbers will inevitably point to those kind of conclusions on their own in any event.

The best strategy IMO would to be to do a combination of both with an LT4. You're not going to take the hp crown from Mopar and you're not going to take the rpm crown from Ford. The best thing to do is go for the power/weight, while maximizing the handling the Alpha gives you. Or they might do a DI 7.0. Who knows.