balthazar

I wasn't around in the '50s- I don't have much knowledge of how dealers worked then, so that projection isn't it. 'Plenty of examples' sounds like you advocate judging an individual ('salesman') solely on his job title, rather than the actuality of how they conduct themselves. I find -barring direct evidence to the contrary- giving the individual the benefit of the doubt takes me much farther than assuming everyone is out to F me. To repeat; there are just about 18,000 new car dealers in the U.S. in '22- that a HUGE pool to make an overall strongly negative assumption about. Now... if a specific dealer has BBB complaints, or online horror stories from actual customers, that's enough evidence for most people (& me) to avoid them. By the same token; if a specific dealer has a great reputation and strong reviews, I would expect to have a good experience there. But I'm getting from you that it's basically impossible to EVER get a square deal from a car salesman, because; 'car salesman'. There are 5.2 million people in the U.S. named 'Robert'. (My father is one). Can I take the experiences / heard accounts of -say- 10,000 of them, and make a fair assumption about the other 5.1+ million, unilaterally? Does anything in life actually work like that??

They’ve been detailed here; I don’t see disqualifying them (investor issue, reservation issue, MSRP jack). The pool of buyer experiences is microscopic at this point… You have any empirical evidence to generalize like you’re doing (“scum of the Earth” / kill all salespersons because of their industry).

SOME dealerships. There are 18,000 new vehicle dealers in the U.S.. There have also been numerous complaints about the 1 Tesla ‘dealer’ and the 1 Rivian ‘dealer’, to be fair.

surreal - are those TR7s a poor buy at circa $2K, or is it just the costs to bring one back to 'nice' just not worth it? As as iffy as the 914's rep is, that's saying a LOT about the TR7. I haven't seen a Triumph in well over a decade.

I've never denied there are raw deals out there. Quote me if you think I did. What I have stated from the beginning is consumer choice; there are always other businesses (selling the same product) you can patronize, businesses that offer the consumer choice with their deal - different stated prices, plus the opportunity to bargain on that stated price. That's 'choice', and that only benefits the consumer. I thought we all loved the concept of competition & choice... One store mandated prices with no discounting is zero (or only 'one') choice, not potentially unlimited choice. You as a consumer can pay severe markups if you decide to (some do), or a much more moderate markup, or sticker, or even below sticker. That's a MUCH wider pool of potential buyers. It's up to the individual. Just... cannot do that at Rivian or Tesla. If you as a consumer don't care what you spend; then MSRPs, dealer markups, factory price jacks are ALL irrelevant to you. But most people don't shop that way. 'I' reserved a Rivian, 'I' want a Rivian, 'I' love everything about the truck, what a fresh, unique, fun product! What are my purchase price options for getting a Rivian? One. - - - - - I never said those other trucks weren't segment competitors. I am talking about the consumer who wants a RIVIAN. A truck 'you' were smitten with and planned on buying over a year ago... except last night the price was jacked $11,475, and you hadn't budgeted for a 17% (or more if getting options) price increase. Anyone believe that's NOT going to throw a LOT of future buyers out of the pool? Money doesn't matter? $68K vs. $80K = inconsequential? Maybe a different Rivian dealer will still honor that $67K stic— whoops; there aren't any other Rivian dealers.

Is RJ from Rivian also a 'scumbag salesperson'? How about 'jack the prices monthly' Musk?

Uhhh..... That would automatically make then NOT a Rivian buyer, but a GMC / Chevy / Ford buyer. 🤪 So you're saying that far more examples of sh!tty deals/practices have occurred at 100s of thousands of dealers over 20-50 years, than have occurred at ONE Rivian store that's been selling vehicles for 3 months. Bazinga - got me there!! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Dealerships who charge even a hundred extra dollars on an already-ordered product are shitty. I wouldn’t pay it. There. Again tho, from the CONSUMER’s standpoint, if they want that Brand X, they can shop around at other stores or even in other states. RIVIAN BUYERS HAVE NO OTHER STORES!! That’s the huge difference you keep ignoring.

'Trust rebuilding & reassurance' isn't at all necessary, and any 'bitterness' is totally unwarranted. It was all "much to do about nothing". 😉

^ It's going to price a LOT of reservation holders out of the brand, no question. You can't do shit like that and not expect to see serious flight. I don't think there's EVER been an OEM price increase like this on the same (non-refreshed) vehicle. Even 10%. Correct me if I'm wrong. $11,475 is a LOT of cash even at this price tier. Some folk are theorizing that Rivian is over-extended, and this may be a move to actually discourage R1T / R1S sales so Rivian can focus more on the commercial contract. Stupid, stupid way to go about it, if true. 'Dealerships' aren't a national united entity with no pricing variables. "You continue to ignore this". Anecdotal high-side dealership examples don't remotely add up to unilateral, zero competition price increases, they just don't. It's NOT "the exact same thing" and "you know it". We'll see how this pans out for Rivian. Stock continues to slide this morning...

Industry news section?

TOO LATE!! The source article (from a reservation holder) : https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/03/02/rivians-bait-and-switch-already-costing-company/?source=eptyholnk0000202&utm_source=yahoo-host&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=article

$20 grand, you say?

What I was saying is; are the folk who put in a Rivian reservation and really want one... simply going to shrug and go to Ford? Why did they want a Rivian to begin with; just as an impulse? That's likely largely due to the price hike news.... tho the stock has been sliding steadily down since mid-November.

If that were universal, there’d be no business case for Rivian.

I guess. I just think of the Gov’t going after GM because all the other competitors only had like 55% of the market left. 🧐 Ironic that we’ve been touching on OEM vs. dealer sales, and here comes an OEM jacking their vehicles $11K overnight / across the board… with no other option for the Rivian buyer.

I meant 20%, not 20 grand. But I’m sure due to ‘inflationary circumstances’ that Rivian option prices will be bumped too, so who knows- it may end up being closer to $20 grand (but again: ATP vs MSRP).

I don’t get how people don’t see this. OEM- controlled pricing is like having ONE dealership for the entire country. You are GOING to pay their price or go without. It’s a textbook definition of a monopoly…. but this country no longer challenges those. You are bringing ATPs into a discussion on MSRPs. Irrelevant. Further, truck/SUV sales were disproportionately high in that number.

Case in point randomly popping up on FB GMC group; a monstrous $12,000 over sticker!! EDIT : oops! I mean $181 over sticker. Finger slipped on the calculator. But still; ‘same thing as going on at Rivian’.

Maybe it’s a journalistic conspiracy against Rivian; making the whole thing up. Rivian might be dropping prices by 20 grand instead. Glad a $20 grand price bump is no big deal to you. You’re very fortunate. Yes; because that’s not a universal move. I know of dealerships today that are charging but $300 over MSRP- you always have the option of shopping for a better deal. Not the case when the OEM controls all pricing.

I agree with the sentiment completely, but OEM-direct sales models apparently can gouge as deep or as frequently as they want.

Rivian sold 920 vehicles in December. This is their only month of retail sales in 2021. Same month, GM sold 57,705 Silverados & Sierras (combined).

17 and 20%? Please... cite me some examples. Just re-built my truck as a '22, MSRP went up $345. Rivian went up $11,475... but 'it's all the same'. 🤥 How did I get 17% UNDER MSRP only 10 months ago? Anybody going to get a Rivian for 17% UNDER MSRP? Stock market open not quite a half hour as I type this; Rivian stock down another 8%, to a new 52-wk low.

Ford already has multiple divisions under one company- nothing new there.