smk4565

I think the cracks are in the dam, and it is about to burst as far as EVs go.  There are a few out there now, but I think around 2020 they are going to be coming fast and furious, as everyone will have EVs and they'll be good ones that are fast and have range, and you can charge at home, never go to a gas station, awesome stuff.

The Leaf isn't a good looking car, in fact it is an ugly car, that hurts it sales just as much as the range does.  The Bolt isn't a very good looking car either, it looks kind of like a lifted Sonic hatchback.  Tesla makes a good looking car that can accelerate like a Lamborghini, that's why it sells.  

I think 200 miles of range is enough to squash range anxiety, most people are not driving 200 miles in a day, you'd have to spend 4 hours in the car to get to that.  The Bolt has the range it needs, I don't think it has the looks.  When the Tesla comes, it will look cool, and the Tesla brand  name is like Apple when it comes to phones.  People just want it.

This sounds like a pretty awesome bus, to have no emissions and no noise and 1/4 the operating cost of a diesel that is amazing.  Seems like it could recoup the additional cost to purchase in fuel savings.

The Tesla is only 100 kWh battery, with 600 kWh battery they could put an insane ludicrous mode on this bus.  

But the Camry won't break down all the time or lose 50% of it's value in 1 year like a 200 will.

25 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I think you missed a one, please post the ad if you can find one as the cheapest I could find a 200 was a fully loaded 2016  200 Limited for $19,205. 2017 start at $22,995. This was on the west coast.

It was meant to be a joke.   I have no idea how big a discount they are shoveling on Darts and 200s.  

V8s are smoother and make less noise than a boosted 6, especially the GM 3.0TT which has gotten knocked for be unrefined, although I never have been in a car with it.

Either way, if you are going to spend $70,000 on a car, get a 2 year old S-class off lease, it mops the floor with anything else at $70k.  

I think Chrysler 200s are selling for $9,995 right now.  

You could argue the CT6 has better looks or interior, or better equipment for the price for sure.  The 2 cars are close, but you can argue the V8 is better than a turbo V6 if you like V8 sound or smoothness.  I am not saying I would take a G90 over a CT6, I actually think there are better buys than both for $70-80k, but I don't think the Genesis pricing is out of line.

This:

Is better than this:

I wouldn't buy an Acura, and I think the MDX interior lags behind any German or the Lexus RX or even XT5, but the MDX is better than an Encore.  Look at all the plastic in the Encore, the lack of a center console, lack of real wood or aluminum trim, etc.

Acura interiors are on par with Honda interiors for the most part.  But an MDX is nicer than an Encore, that isn't really close.

Buick could use a 4th crossover in between Envision and Enclave, GMC needs a crossover below Terrain, they could get 10 crossovers/SUVs in that dealership channel.  

Can't get a V8 in a CT6, the twin turbo V6 in this is cheaper than a CT6 too.  So I don't think it is really that unrealistic a price.  A Lexus LS460 is this price, and that car has a V8 from 2007 under the hood.

Heritage High Roof perhaps?

Buyers love it regardless of what they call it.  I am sure there are people that don't want to take the Phantom Drophead out to inspect the oil fields, this all wheel drive tall vehicle will pit their concerns at ease.

Fusion is doing okay because it is a good product and because Taurus is basically dying.  Chevy has too many sedans, they can probably consolidate too.  

These crossovers were once though as more of a premium car or more desireable I think because not as many people had them.  When 60% of the vehicles sold are crossovers and they are a commodity just like the CamCord I wonder if they will still be thought of that way.

They are making Dodges in 2017?  

One problem is there are 16 mid-size sedans in one segment.  This is a huge segment, but you have so many players in it, some will fade away like the Chrysler 200 and Dodge Dart which small, but is dropping off in sales too and discounts won't save it.  There is a war of attrition going on in this segment, only the strong will survive.

A 2nd problem is outside of Subaru, it is hard to find all wheel drive on a mid-size or small sedan, but every crossover offers it, and the marketing people have convinced buyers that AWD = Safety and that they need it.

And most people aren't driving like they are on the Nurburgring, to plod along in traffic or around town a crossover handles just as well as most mid-size sedans, and you get the added space and higher seating position.  

And related to that, think of some of the crap sedans that people are trading in now.  If you have an 2006-2009 Malibu, Fusion, Sonata, W-body Impala, etc, and go drive a 2016 crossover, the 2016 crossover probably rides and handles better, might even get better gas mileage than that V6 family sedan of 10 years ago.  The consumers are just flocking to crossovers like crazy.

All the Germans will have electric sedans.  The A8 is kind of dead in the water right now, this might be a way to pump life back into it.  I don't see them needing an A8 and A9, but then again BMW may make an 8-series and 9-series.  A 95 kwh 3 motor A8 could be competitive, but they also need to get electrics down in the A6 level because $100k+ cars are a tiny segment.  Getting in the $50-60k area would make a bigger impact.

13 hours ago, dfelt said:

@smk4565 I am going to only state the obvious, Cadillac thought they could never be beat and coined the term standard of the world. 

The S-Class is Beatable, nothing is perfect and nothing stays the best for ever. 

It might not be Cadillac, but I can tell you that some car company someplace is going to come along and beat the snot out of your unbeatable S-Class and your gonna be left looking like this!  

So just be ready cause some day will come.

Nope.  40 years at the top of the luxury sedan segment, 40 years as the gold standard.  The others have tried and failed, Infiniti left that segment years ago, Jaguar might leave it, and Audi would dump the A8 if it wasn't for China because they A8 is tanking here and in Europe.  As crossovers keep eating at sedan sales there will be fewer big sedans left on the market, only the strong will survive.  Much like luxury roadsters, the SL is the last one standing.  Cadillac, Lexus and Jaguar all scrapped theirs.

Leases are huge on Cruze, Elantra, Focus type cars because people can lease them for $179 a month, when you can't even buy a $10k used car for that monthly payment.    That puts a lot of cars on the used market at 3 years old, probably bad for resale but good for used car shoppers.

Back to Cadillac's future, Autoblog had a story where Johan himself mapped out the product plans.

"We ARE planning a Cadillac flagship which will NOT be a 4 door sedan;
We ARE planning a large crossover beneath Escalade;
We ARE planning a compact crossover beneath XT5;
We ARE planning a comprehensive enhancement to CT6 later during life cycle;
We ARE planning a major refresh for XTS;
We ARE planning a new Lux 3 sedan entry;
We ARE planning a new Lux 2 sedan entry;"

I think it will be interesting to see what this flagship is.  Good idea not to make it a sedan as the S-class is unbeatable.  We knew they would add 2 more crossovers.   I don't know why they bother with the XTS, and that sub-ATS is on the way folks.  Even if ATS and CTS both die, for the new Lux 2 and Lux 3 sedans, with XTS and CT6 they still have 4 sedans

I saw one of these on the road the other day.  From a distance it looks sort of like a Jag, then as you get closer you realize it is just a Lincoln and a bit of a disappointment.   Problem 1 is this car is not rear drive, so it has weird proportions, and problem 2: it is not rear wheel drive to handle that horsepower. 

This engine is optional on the Cadillac CT6 and CTS, so if it is good enough to be an option on a Cadillac, I am sure it is good enough to be on a Canyon/Colorado.  I think truck buyers think they need a V6, that is why the turbo 4 isn't in these trucks, even though the turbo 4 has more torque at a lower rpm and would make more sense in a truck that isn't going to be driven at 5500 rpm a whole lot.

On a side note, I think GM could make a unibody pickup smaller than the Colorado/Canyon

I think the 2.0T could be good, it makes more torque at lower rpm than the 3.6 and trucks are about low end torque, not rev to 6,500 rpm V6s.

I think a car based pickup can work.  You get better ride and handling with a unibody and not everyone buying a pick up is going to tow 6,000 lbs or haul 1500 lbs of mulch in the bed.   Look at hoe people fled body on frame SUVs in favor of crossovers with better ride and better fuel economy, because they weren't going off road or towing a huge boat.

And pickups are a big segment without a lot of players, even if the Santa Cruz isn't a big seller compared to the Tacoma or Frontier, they could still sell 50,000 Santa Cruz per year, which is nothing to sneeze at.

That is amazingly fast.  A Formula 1 car does 0-60 in 1.9 seconds, a Ferrari LaFerrari does it in 2.4.  This is a 4 door sedan road car doing it in 2.5, that's incredible.

8 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Don't mind @smk4565 this is just him moving the goal posts. When Cadillac beats his beloved Benz at something, his pivot is now to "oh yea?! well Cadillac isn't as good as Tesla". 

It's really borderline trolling. 

What did Cadillac beat Benz at?  Building a twin turbo V8 next year?  Pretty much every vehicle Mercedes makes has a twin turbo V8 option.  

Mercedes has a Tesla problem too because their AMG cars can't run with a Model S, luckily the Model S P100 is $35k more than an E63 but if that price gap closes Mercedes has some trouble because the V8 is never going to beat the electric motor.  Mercedes might be able to win on ride or handling.