greg_nate

That's a nice looking vehicle...and if its got a quality build and a good selection of engines/options, then I think Chevy will have a hit.

At this point, I wouldn't knock the commercials - at least they are making commercials - which is more than can be said for a good chunk of GM vehicles. For every GM ad I see on TV, I see 6 Toyota commercials. Gm didn't produce a single commercial for the Camaro its entire last year of production. Dodge plastered Neon commercials on every channel...where are the commercials for the Cobalt? I haven't seen a single one. So is it hokey for only mentioning the wipers? Maybe so. But not anymore ridiculous than Lexus spending an entire commercial telling us about the dimples on the underside of the vehicle, designed for sound deadening....or a 30 second truck commercial that shows the truck being hung from its tow bar. Like I said, at least Buick gets a commercial. Think of all the Pontiacs that don't get airplay...Chevy's too.

...which is proof again that GM doesn't have a forward looking plan - if any plan at all. To date, their moves are purely reactive, rather than proactive. GM is like a disorganized team with an inept coach. Rather than providing leadership, the coach looks to his players for advice. Each player providing different ideas. The result is confusion and no direction. Wagoner is a mess. He gets a handful of ideas from his co-workers, and tries to implement them all - with the hopes that "more is better", and if he just keeps tossing things into the pot, sooner or later the soup will turn out to be tasty. That's not leadership. Its called hopeless gambling. Its called panic. This guy has no plan other than to make the bottom line look good. The problem is, he's got the cart before the horse. Rather than developing a long term product goal which will lead to a good bottom line, he tries to get his bottom line dollar to look good, hoping for a long term product result. Wagoner is soooo in over his head.

...at a time when I need something to make me feel good about GM, this comes out. It just makes me sick. The UAW has to make some valid concessions with GM and Delphi...but after this, I don't expect anything more than token. And ya know what? Part of me says I don't blame them either. If people are going to drive GM into the dirt, then they might as well get their fair share too. FYI, I am not a union lover. But I am no Wagoner lover either. Wagoner needs to go. A story posted on here a week ago had a quote from Wagoner saying someting to the effect of, "I don't know for sure if we're gonna make it". That is just poor leadership. A good leader would have been telling the troops encouraging words and backing them up with a good plan.

Thank you for the link. It is a good read for many reasons, not least of which, is the passion that is behind it. I think your marketing comment is dead on. Even a mediocre car can be marketed and sold. Just look at Hyundai and Kia. Marketing sold the vehicles, and next thing ya know, they have enough money to start building quality cars. Just a few years after they were laughed at, they are making good cars and selling well. I am not a qualified business leader, nor a sales person. Just a car enthusiasts, and particularly a GM one. The steps seem mostly obvious, which makes it appalling that GM isn't actually doing them as routine business. I particularly liked 7 and 8. What your plan seems to hinge on is increasing/restoring employee pride and customer trust. I find that interesting because there is no real mention of product in the steps - other than new models every fall. So my question is, do you believe that restoring GM to the point of being a respectable company in the eyes of its employees and customers is enough? I am not doubting, just considering the thought. It also seems that the return to greatness is just a start, in a long process. Once the company is restored to a level of excellence as a company, then and only then can they make the most of designing and marketing a good product. In other words, it doesn't do much good for GM to have a hit model line up, if their employees and customers are disgusted with them. And it further hinders any success if they cannot even market the product. One of the other things that I'd like to see addressed is GM's aging demographic. How are they going to get new, emerging customers. Loyal GM fans will eventually die out. Again, I am no CEO. There are people on this board who know far more than I do. But even so, I like the plan. At least its a plan. I have the feeling that Wagoner is just trying to make numbers add up. That's not a plan...its more of an appeal to shareholders. Thanks again for the read and passion. Hopefully people like yourself will help get the behemoth turned in the right direction. greg

I am game...what is Return to Greatness? You made an obviously good point with the Red Tag campaign. I wonder who came up with that idea. I also wonder if GM has considered dropping its advertising company in favor of the advertising firm that does Toyota's ads. I mean really, GM hasn't had a decent campaign since Bob Segar's 'Like a Rock' aired....and that was decades ago. Furthermore, it doesn't seem like GM has a real marketing and advertising strategy at all. I've never seen a commercial on TV for the GTO, nor the Solstice or the Cobalt. Toyota gets a new model, and you see TV ads all over the place. What gives? Toyota advertises cars that they don't even have to market yet. And when Plymouth came out with the Neon, one couldn't change the TV channel without seeing the "Hi Car" commercial. Cobalt could benefit from something like this. I haven't seen an HHR commercial either. One could argue that I am just not looking at the right TV channels, but that doesn't explain why I am seeing other car manufactures' ads on those channels. There isn't a Chevy commercial that I can remember, yet I could pull from memory at ease, the new cool Civic commercial. Its as if GM is *TRYING* to fail. p.s. I just remembered a Chevy commercial. Its for the new Impala. There's some computer generated, silver looking animals chasing the car, trying to catch up to it as the woman driver steps on the accellerator. Is this a scene from a thriller movie, or a car ad? I can't tell. And then, they don't pronounce the name of the car correctly. At least not here on the west coast. They pronounce the first "a" with a short sound, as in the name Sam. I've always heard Impala pronounced with the first "a" having an "ah" sound.

Very well said - both you and the author. I feel the same way. The problem as I see it, GM doesn't get this part. I honestly can't see how a majority of GM's vehicles made it past the drawing table. Then there are a few GM cars that are really nice - but as was said before, so are the competitions' vehicles !! Even low-end Kia and Hyundai are making nice looking rides. GM's moves need to be bold and decisive. They need to lead again, rather than follow. And frankly, I don't know if that company is capable of such. GM's current situation reminds me of the stages of death and dying: 1 - Denial - GM and its suppoprters in denial of any type of problem...starting back in the 70's. 2 - Anger - GM and its supporters mad at management, trade laws, suppliers, unions, etc. Its everyone else's fault. 3 - Bargaining - GM praying that if they can make it through the tough time, then they'll promise to start making good quality vehicles. 4 - Depression - GM and its supporters haven't gotten here yet. Maybe a few of the supporters. 5 - Acceptance - GM and its suppporters are nowhere near this point. Personally, I am just leaving stage 4, and entering into stage 5 - Acceptance. I am starting to come to grips with the fact that GM's days as #1 are gone, and that I'd be happy with them being at #3, as long as they put out good vehicles. Its not important anymore for me that GM be #1. I just want a few good American cars that GM seemed to be the only producer of. And even if that doesn't happen, then acceptance of the fact that GM might go away completely, is next. greg

Late to market...they may have been in experimentation 30 years ago, but that doesn't matter much when you, myself and everyone else sees a Toyota moniker on 70% of the hybrids....the rest read "Honda". In actuality, they weren't late to the party - they were absent. I think they were prophetic in their push for fuel cell R&D, but we're still not there yet....GM has made 2010 as the date when they start rolling Hydrogen vehicles. Unfortunately, that's only 4 years away now, and the technology still isn't quite there. I am still holding out though. If GM can make it through this tough time without going bankrupt and being split up, I have a feeling the stars might just align perfectly, and GM could emerge as the clear, dominant leader in this field - at a time when we really need it too! greg

The thread goes on to say that cameras are encouraged, and that they are trying to setup a simulcast....so I'll be willing to bet that within hours of the unveiling, we'll be seeing pics on the cz28 site and elsewhere...probably here too. greg

>>Oh no? How about the company INCREASING SEVERANCE PAY TO EXECS? >>Argue that one. "GREED" is incorrect. "GRAFT", is the proper description. There's a difference and fairly significant one. The former is an emotional appeal, very marxist in nature. The latter, is descriptive of the facts. >>Notice what's in bold? AGREEMENT! Again, "AGREEMENT" is an incorrect term as well. "COERCION" is the proper descriptor. Delphi/GM/Ford/DCX don't agree with any of the contracts. If they had it their way, there wouldn't be a contract. Both "sides" of this situation are to blame. There is corporate graft as well as union graft. It just so happens that foreign competition is kicking our butts, and no one wants to admit it. Toyota does it better, and for less. Period. But rather than accept the cold, stark reality of this statement, people are pointing fingers at one another. The days of the free lunch are over. Gone. For 40 years after WWII, America ran practically unopposed in the global market. Its just not that way anymore. We spread our influence all over the world, and now we are experiencing the repercussions of our influence. We taught everyone our game, and now they are beating us at our own game. greg

>>I just think that people have no idea how big this is and how disasterious this is >>to the entire business, to every working persons rights, Union or not. Correct, it will affect all...but not disasterous for all. Some it will benefit, and not just the stock holders. Someone's loss is always someone else's gain. >>If the UAW gives in to these ridiculous demands they would be giving back >>everything our grandparents fought for, literally fought for over the years. This is not contextually true, and appeals to the emotions rather than historical accurateness. What our grandfathers (mine too, by the way) fought against was exploitation of the worker. Large corporations were making billions and the workers were being worked to death for pennies a week. Literally, people were dying for money that wouldn't put food on the table. As the country evolved from a farming society to an industrial one, cheap labor - cheap meaning exploitable, abounded. Families sold their farms and moved to the city not because they wanted to, but because they were forced to. Big agriculture put the family farm out of business. Knocking at the door of the industrialists were the starving families willing to work to death....and that's exactly what the industrialists did to them. Fast forward to today's society, things are much different. The Unionized worker makes more than anyone else. The big corporations aren't drowning in profit...they are sinking in debt and losses. Today's worker is *HARDLY* exploited. C'mon now. Heck, they get paid *NOT* to work. What do think our grandfathers would say about the whining of today's workers? They'd tell us to shut up, then beat the crap out of us for being lazy, entitled, selfish pricks. Our grandfathers didn't even have Social Security. There's no way you can compare workers from 3 generations ago, to our workforce today. No way, no how. We don't have a work force. We have a "want force". >>How can anybody in their right mind not see this? How can people sit there and >>say "Good, it's about time!" when these are peoples lives that are at stake >>here. Nevermind the fact that you feel UAW workers are "stupid" or "ignorant" >>but mind the fact that peoples lives, their day to day means and their means to >>provide a meal for their family and a roof over their heads is literally on the >>line. When it means the destruction of a huge corporation, I have no qualms in knocking the Union demands. Back when GM had no competition, the Unions could claim their fair share of the pie. Today however, GM has competition, and is fighting for its survival. Their competition makes as good as or better products for less. Period. I don't like to admit it, but I can't ignore the truth. Furthermore, those Americans who are working in Toyota shops are glad to have their jobs. They are making fairly comparable wages, and are by no means at all exploited. Socioeconomic conditions change. So must the business practices. I don't think anyone really believes Union workers are stupid and ignorant. I don't. >>How can people applaud that? It's appaling to me, and hey....when corporate >>America starts to hold their CEO's accountable for their actions I'll sit back and >>applaud for a final action being taken. >>In the mean time there's been a mission to destory all things Unions and >>worker rights. Almost done, airlines were the latest, auto's are the next. This is going to seem like I am talking out of both sides of my neck, but I agree wtih you here. CEO's *DO* need to be held accountable. I also believe that there has been and always will be a current to break the strangleholds of the Unions. Its in the interest of Big Business. Its just that as the ebb and tide of economics rolls along, each party in the struggle will have to give up some of its territory. Today, the Unions are going to have to give a little in order to survive. greg