Cananopie

You are under the preconception that copying the exact way Lexus attained success means success for Buick. However it's foolish to "understand" yet ignore what has made Buicks and American vehicles popular themselves. For instance the deep growl only (almost only at least) an American V8 can give is something to treasure. Sajeev tries to extrapolate this issue in to being something to worry about. This isn't the sound of a chincy engine, the Northstar engine is well known for being a well-refined engine- there is no issue on the QUALITY of the engine. Nor is it a LOUD engine. It seems in the automotive industry so many people are looking for absolutes. Whether or not the vague noise of the engine actually irritates anyone is not the issue it seems for you or Sajeev, the issue seems to be that it's not like Lexus enough so therefore it fails. There is appeal to the growl of an American engine- far more appeal than there is for the buzzing or whining sound of foreign competitors. Buick isn't setting out to forget you're driving a vehicle- which may be Lexuses goal- Buick, I'd say has more of a mission to make an experience come from your vehicle. Buick needs to distinguish itself from Lexus as more appealing and frankly more interesting. Lexus is known for luxury and quiet- however it's also probably the most boring of all luxury divisions. Buick doesn't need to be boring too- you're telling me you wouldn't enjoy a little growl from your engine when you floored it? Once again- not enough to mess with a conversation on your cell phone or that makes you put your music up louder because you still hear it (because the engine is not THAT loud) but enough to make the vehicle exciting. Lexuses are boring vehicles and Buick, keeping the tradition of powerful growling V8s is important because that is one of the top things most recall today about what they enjoy most about their American vehicle. The V8 growl- because Lexus can't replicate that does not mean Buick should get rid of it! There will always be those people who will reach deep in the annals of the GM press releases and bust out the single statement where Lexus and Buick were compared to in the same sentence and then shout about saying how unlike Lexus Buick is and how Buick needs to be more like Lexus. I don't need to be driving in a vaccuum, Buick has effectively outsilenced Lexus and still kept an attractive American quality (the V8 growl- if they felt it was a problem they would've used more sound deadening against it- have you drive the Lucerne V8? it isn't an issue that would annoy you in the slighest- it's an issue made for nitpickers who just want to complain- it actually doesnt negatively effect a single thing about what you plan to do in the car and it's not loud enough to reach levels of obnoxiousness- it's made to enhance your driving experience) As for the 3800 which is a totally different issue on levels of luxury- I understand that you wish Buick would drop it for the "more refined' 3.6 liter but if you actually want to increase sales it'd be more essential to focus on possibly a more luxurious transmission, an engine that gets better MPG than either the 3.6 or the 3.8, Displacement on Demand, and alternative fuel options- these are whats going to make Buick (and other GM products) sell and be a lot more enticing than the boring 3.6 and Lexus. The 3.6 has not impressed me in the LaCrosse as being any better of an engine than the 3.8 supercharged. The 3.8 supercharged was more fun and was quicker. The fact that the 3.8 is old doesn't make it unrefined- it is a very refined engine in both the Lucerne and LaCrosse since I've driven both numerously. Buick needs to focus on something that will make a difference to the consumer - not alienate the loyal buyers for an engine that is almost identical in performance and MPG than the 3.8.

You want Buick to BE Lexus, you don't want Buick to be marketed any differently than Lexus, where it deviates it fails, it's a way to make sure Buick never wins.

I think you're idealizing the GTO too much so it can only be offered as an expensive Pontiac with no other options. Sports cars gain their appeal by what they have the potential to do... they keep their appeal by making cheaper, more affordable versions of it. How popular would the Solstice be if it wasn't offered at such a low price? It's the price that matters most with a vehicle designed specifically for sport in a Pontiac- the Pontiac division is a division of affordable sport. They aren't BMW and they're not supposed to be. Allowing a more base GTO to keep the production of the higher end GTO's is a good move for both Pontiac and GM. Saying the GTO should be Pontiac's Corvette is unrealistic. I stopped thinking about the idea of "Buick's Corvette" in the sense of a Buick that almost every American wants because of its power and style in a much higher price range than the average vehicles in the company... but GM is in far too tight of a spot for Buick OR Pontiac to be messing in a price group that it does not have a foothold in. But if it were between the two companies to making a sporty coupe Buick really does deserve it. The Park Avenue I do not believed sold quite as poorly as the GTO and the GTO could not have sold as much for so long. The reason why I called it "boring" was because it was a 4 door V6 sedan- not V8 and not a coupe and nothing very outstanding about it- but it still sold well. Buick is a natural with understated elegance and it was a bit awkward for Pontiac. The GTO was not as warmly welcomed as it should have been because it was mute of elegant flare or in your face sport. It doesn't get elegant for Pontiac- it gets boring for people to think of an elegant Pontiac. A sports car is a mid-life crisis for almost any middle aged men- and the Pontiac GTO would be a sports car of sports cars. The problem is- many men don't want to look so foolish as to be going through their midlife crisis getting in a car that most would say was much too young for them. Younger people who would be interested in something like the GTO will not have the money to purchase a 30k plus GTO while older people will feel very comfortable going in to a 2-door V8 Buick... and they also have the money to fork it over. Nobody will ever tell them they're going through a mid-life crisis in a Buick because it's not a kids brand. Pontiac has plenty of potential in their own price range (which has a lot to do with what a company is- BMWs aren't sold for 20k and Kias aren't sold for 80k, companies can't go all willy-nilly with where their next vehicle is going to be with their pricerange- the public holds a lot of weight in image identity) and Pontiacs do not sell in the 30k-40k price range and Buick does so it's obvious that Buick should get this vehicle. A Buick coupe will appeal to a lot more to financially liberal spenders who have an image to hold up of themselves. And no matter how classy a Pontiac is inside and out- it's still a Pontiac and it will need time to shed that image. You put a V8 coupe in a Buick and it is something Buick is so used to and has the design freedom to be a lot more artistic with their vehicle than Pontiac that it will fit like a glove. A cheaper GTO and a more expensive Riviera would sell best- I just realized today that your buddy icon is a GTO so you're obviously passionate about the vehicle but both Pontiac and Buick needs a flagship, but Buick needs one more because they do not have a jaw-dropping vehicle like the Solstice (and it's jaw dropping because it is a well designed 2 door convertible... things that are jaw dropping are always 2 door as far as I'm concerned). My compromise would be a cheaper GTO that tops out right where the elegant Riviera would start. And as you say- they'll appeal to two totally different groups and you still get your perfect upper-end GTO it's just the Buick is going for the more elegant-consience crowd. The GTO and the Solstice combined will make the Pontiac brand very appealing (Don't be greedy) and the Riviera would help make the other vehicles Buick sells more appealing because the Riviera, if styled right, would resemble each of them a bit so people can see the Riviera in their own car. This makes Sedans and CUVs (naturally unappealing vehicles no matter what brand or make) more appealing!

When you build a vehicle like the Mustang and the Camaro there is expected to be a certain level of affordability of it. The reason why the GTO probably outsold the Cobra and Mach 1 is because the Mustang (and the last gen Camaro at least) don't make their sales on their versions that are on crack. Those obviously sell poorly because of their price. What makes the Mustang profitable and what made the Camaro profitable too and what WOULD'VE made the GTO profitable is offering a base-model of the vehicle that is affordable to a great many-more people. In the case of the GTO, Camaro, and Mustang people are basically buying it for the name. Most of the car-buying in America comes from non-car-buffs unlike ourselves. It comes from people who want to be popular and it comes from people who want people to envy their decision and over and over and over again people hear about how good of a vehicle the old GTO was, or the Camaro was, or the Mustang is and they want one for themselves. They go up to the counter and say "I want to fastest Mustang you got!" and they bring them over to the nearest Mach-1 or Cobra and then they say "I couldn't afford that in a million years, don't you have one that's like 10k cheaper?" and then the salesmen will stroll them over to a stock Mustange equipped with like 200 HP and nothing special and they will be absolutely thrilled to take it- because it's a Mustang. The GTO should be set up similarly- the GTO should not be an aspirational vehicle- only the best version of it- and in order to make a GTO priced around 20k you need to get rid of a lot of the luxury (but not the quality- we can still have quality cars at 20k, the Ford Five Hundred is a good example of this) just because it's 20k doesn't mean you have to compromise quality- it means you have to compromise luxury which is a big difference. The GTO's top price should round out about what the last GTO was but it's base price should be at minimum 10k cheaper because this is the type of vehicle people want to gloat about even if they couldn't beat a Jetta in it they'd still eat it up like it's the best car there is because people gloat about owning GTO's, Mustangs, and Camaros constantly. Now if you look at the G35 Coupe from Infiniti this is the type of vehicle that is not in the GTO's territory- the base GTO will always get compared to it and if you get rid of the base GTO nobody will take it seriously because it's unaffordable and it's a Pontiac. The same image conscious people will say "I can have a Pontiac for 33k or an Infiniti" and no offense but Infiniti has had a far more decadent lineup than Pontiac and who wants to buy their luxury from Pontiac? No one. If they wanted luxury that is why we have luxury brands. Buick could make a coupe from 30k-40k without interfering with the GTO and allowing more creature-comforts than the GTO could. The Buick coupe would be in more competition with the Infiniti while the GTO should be in more competition with the Mustang. Don't you see the difference? The Mustang isn't luxury but is severely popular. The G35 isn't severely popular but it is very luxurious. The G35 has understated elegance and beauty. The Mustang has in your face muscle car styling- I know which one of those I want my Pontiac to be and which one of those descriptions I want my Buick to be. Why are you trying to change it all around? The GTO isn't meant for luxury or understated styling- don't force it to have it. Nobody wants that in the market. Pontiac aligns with competition of the Mustang and Buick aligns with competition of Infiniti (and any other brands with a luxury coupe between 30k-40k) and both can impress different mentalities of the public! You say Pontiac is in need of a flagship- oh yea? What about Buick- Pontiac had their chance at a flagship and blew it with the GTO. You think Pontiac deserves another go before Buick who hasn't had a real flagship since the "boring" (to the public) Park Avenue that lasted since 1997 when it had its last redesign? Buick is in need of the image-boost with a real flagship. Pontiac has the Solstice and that is flagship enough- Buick needs a car that gets "wows" too. Pontiac is not the sole company in BPG dealerships that deserves flagships. Especially since Pontiac is slated to already have more vehicles than Buick in its lineup! Don't let Pontiac encroach in to Buick's small enough territory as it is. Pontiac should stay below 30k and Buick stays above 25k and there is very little cross shopping to be done.

It's not that we "don't care" about your definition moreso than you're making up your own definition of Quiet Tunining, which was made specifically for Buick and has no previous standard to live up to with its quiet tuning. As Olsmoboi showed the definition does not say "complete and utter absense of any engine noise"... you're making that up yourself. An American V8 is meant to be heard and you should know that. It's not meant to be too loud that when you're on your cell phone in your car you can't hear the person talking to you (like road noise, wind noise, AC on crappy cars, or a buzzing 4 cyl, these problem arises often with other cars, including the Lexus). It certainly is not that loud. It's only loud enough to know you're driving a Northstar V8. The noise it makes isn't from quality problems or because it is an unrefined engine- the noise it makes is a purr... and when you floor it it's a growl... and it's a perfect sound for an American engine. The fact that you're nitpicking it to this degree shows how much of a success Buick's quiet tuning is. And hey, contrary to your article, you yourself now believe Buick out-Lexused Lexus. (unless of course you think hearing road and wind noise constantly is more refined sound deadening than vaguely hearing the Northstar V8.) It's not that we don't care about your definition- it's just that you can't make up a standard for Buick to have a different definition of quiet tuning than what it gave. Sure- you don't like the sound of the engine- but you also are obviously not a Buick fan. The engine is always an integral part of a Buick and the purr a powerful Northstar V8 is something to celebrate- not hide. That is why it's a controversial topic. People pay big bucks for that V8, I know I'd want to hear it purring for me. The sound of a Lexus engine, even at low speeds, is not how a good engine sounds in my book and in thousands of others either- be careful what you believe Buick should do because simple things like this mean a lot to potential customers- especially since you're not one don't change what it should be even though you wouldn't buy the car either way.

You're joking yourself if you think GM would let Pontiac to release another GTO. It sold very poorly and it had a lot to do with the marketing as you said but only because they tried to market luxury. Because when you start going in to luxury for Pontiac it gets people questioning the quality of their Buick's and Cadillacs which is a big deal because that represents a good portion of GM sales. However the GTO name probably won't come back due to the embarrassment of GM for the last one. It's not to say Pontiac can't advertise in such a way to show quality- they can- but Pontiac can't advertise LUXURY without jeopordizing their luxury brands. A luxury vehicle then falls in to the hands of Buick or Cadillac, the former of which is in desperate need for a halo vehicle. The problem with the GTO was that a GTO isn't supposed to have that much luxury. Similar to the Corvette its #1 purpose should be speed and quality and interior materials should be eye catching but not luxurious or supple or comfortable or relaxing... when you do that then you're not buying a Pontiac anymore- you're buying a Buick/Cadillac with a Pontiac nameplate. Just because a Buick coupe would have enough horsepower for people to actually long for the vehicle doesn't mean it's still in Pontiac's territory. Pontiac can't sell luxury, (well anything could in theory, but they're at a severe disadvantage compared to Buick and Cadillac) but more than that- they shouldn't sell luxury because Buick and Cadillac have that taken care of. I'm not arguing that Pontiac should make entirely chincy cars and stick to their image. Quality can improve and good quality materials in a sports car will be noticed. For example the quality of materials in a Corvette is good but they aren't luxurious how it is in the luxury price range- Pontiac can have fast coupes, but when you try to make them a little classy then people lose interest fast because if they wanted luxury they'd go to a luxury nameplate. I suppose this would make it possible for both Pontiac and Buick to have a coupe in the same showroom, one aimed for sportier drivers who don't have as much cash and the other aimed for luxury-sport and have a little more to spend on it. However if one brand should get a 30k-40k coupe it should be Buick- they have a successful history of selling luxury coupes- Pontiac has actually the opposite. And another reason why the GTO probably didn't sell that well is because luxury coupes are where sales are going a lot these days as opposed to sporty coupes with little luxury. Many people today want a relaxed interior environment with all the luxury they can but have a powerful punch of the gas. Pontiac can only truly supply half of that without major problems. Buick was made to create these kinds of vehicles.

VenSeattle - That is a strong argument, I am really impressed with your knowledge of sales and such to back up your points. I totally agree with what you said. Northstar - Whether I like it or not Buick has a current stigma that it is strictly for older clientelle. This isn't any one person's fault, but your average American probably at least knows of this stigma that pays attention to vehicles in the slightest. The same goes for Pontiac- as Ven said the GTO is the exception and not the rule- but even with it's good quality material it honestly sold horribly initially so it helps prove Pontiac can't sell luxury very well. This is because Pontiac has that same type of Buick-oldman stigma as being a cheap-quality vehicle, argue it all you want but that is a typical Pontiac stigma that will come up against it. Nobody has ever prided their Pontiac on their quality. Buick has accomplished a respectable level of quality, and when you have people know they are buying quality they will buy anything. Hence why Buick could sell CUVs, SUVs, and crappy stupid looking minivans much better than Pontiac and hold its own against GMC. Allowing the excitement of a coupe to enter the Buick division will help alleviate the old-man stigma... allowing better materials in Pontiacs will help alleviate their quality problems. The GTO and the Solstice were a pretty good start for them, but Buick is still stuck with 2 sedans and 1 crossover still with quality material but nothing entirely exciting... The amazing part is Buick can be exciting and it won't steal sales from Pontiac because they wouldn't be in the same price range. It seems the idea of making a sporty Buick coupe bothers people mostly because Pontiac can't steal the show. It's an excellent move! Oh and the only reason why people may've drueled more over the Solstice was because it was going in to production. Buick never said that about the Velite and like all concept cars are taken for what they're worth. GM can afford Buick the funds and Buick will be able to sell, respectably, whatever they make- but if people are getting bored of Buicks... give them a 2 door coupe with a powerful engine that makes people drop dead from original beautiful design. The Buick team can handle it. Give it to them.

Successful Quiet Tuning according to your definition. I have driven the Northstar V8 and your complaint about the incessant growling is equally comparable to living about 2 miles away from a railroad track in the country and constantly complaining about hearing the trains drive by when your home should be dead-silent. Or better yet a toddler who is upset that his mother is making him breakfast in the kitchen and wants to ONLY hear the TV or NOTHING and screams at his mother that he doesn't want to hear the sizzling bacon or the toaster pop and wants complete silence so he can watch TV. Typically most people ignore these childish antics, in the case of the person who is upset about trains passing two miles away that intrude his silence by shaking their head and walking away (knowing that if he didn't want to hear a train, he shouldn't have moved by the tracks, let alone how HARD you have to try to let it annoy you enough to call it a problem), or try and explain calmly that it is possible to still enjoy the TV without having the kitchen completely silent and still get breakfast. But a spoiled child and an irritable man will always find a reason to not back down.

Northstar there is a big difference between 60 and 20. 20 year olds typically will look at a Pontiac. A 30 year old... eh... MAYBE will look at a Pontiac, but by the time you're 40 and you hop in a Pontiac you are living a mid-life crisis then because Pontiac's are cheap and sporty- perfect for 20 year olds and for 40 year olds with a midlife crisis. However when you're 40 and you hop in to an Infinit G35 then you are a man with style that your neighbors will not secretly laugh behind your back unlike when you hop in to your $20k Solstice and speed off like the youthful sprite that you never were back in college. Buicks have a stigma of being an "old mans car" but a sporty coupe would change all that. Pontiac has a stigma of being a cheap auto-maker that chinces a lot on materials. There is a sport market for 30-60 year olds that don't look like cheap kid-cars that Pontiac makes. Pontiac is going for Mistubishi excitement which is definitely for young kids- 16-30... but once you reach 30 you realize that you really don't want a small uncomfortable vehicle just because you can go 0-60 quickly... you want a larger, more elegant vehicle, that you can still go 0-60 quickly but when you win your little redlight race you can sit back and enjoy the comforts of the vehicle as well. Pontiac does not have the ability to make luxury sport and Cadillac (if it doesn't have enough vehicles already) isn't doing it in that price segment. Does GM just enjoy allowing foreigners to secure this market completely or does GM want to inject a syringe of life in to its company and give their least "exciting" brand something a little exciting. I'm not saying that it should interfere (God forbid) with a Pontiac or Cadillac sale- I'm just saying that there IS a market out there and there are virtually no American options for this market and that GM and Buick especially could really make this market theirs. How many people drueled over the Velite? Can Pontiac do that? No. Give it (or a coupe or a combination of both) to Buick for the love of God. Buick's biggest problem is public image- give the public an image of Buick that will slash all preconceptions completely... the LaCrosse, Lucerne, and Enclave all built up for THIS vehicle. It can happen. It will sell. And it will be profitable for both Buick and GM. Ignoring this to keep cutting costs (as hasn't worked for the last 20 years and won't continue to work) will ultimately lead to doom for the entire brand.

Okay- so Lexus doesn't fail even though it has "SIGNIFICANTLY more wind noise than a 'Quiet Tuned' Lucerne" and Lexus doesn't fail for "a lot of road noise on coarse pavement, more than a Lucerne on any pavement I drove on." But Buick fails completely because of an engine that purrs. I'm glad you made that "CRYSTAL CLEAR" for me. I didn't know wind noise and road noise didn't count for when making a whole car quiet.

ehaase- your logic seems backwards to me. Buick was not made to be an 'old mans' company and nobody ever marketed it as such. Buick became that way due to lack of exciting product that appeals to other buyers... sedans and SUVs only attract so much. The Rendezvous has proved Buick can sell vehicles to a younger crowd and in more numbers than most other brands... But when you don't give Buick a vehicle for younger people they won't appeal to younger people Only so many younger people need a full or midsize sedan or an SUV. While all three vehicles are very stylish (when the Enclave comes along) these people-packers are not exactly what they younger crowd is looking for. ONE more vehicle that could be a coupe or convertible for Buick (even though we all know Pontiac totally has that market cornered and nobody who considers GM would ever consider outside of Pontiac for sport and sport styling...right?) placed in the 30k-40k range which would NOT interfere with a single sporty Pontiac, a single sporty Chevy, and not a single Cadillac (since all of these brands need to be considered before Buick ever gains a product). The closest GM product a 30k-40k coupe or convertible would cross shop is the 4 door sedan CTS or the 4 door sedan Lucerne... Now imagine if GM actually did it right and gave Buick a powerful engine, one of the most powerful in its class (I know it seems Chevy, Pontiac, and Cadillac are the only car companies in GM who are allowed to have most powerful in its class engines but hey- maybe Buick- an equally meritable company- could get one too... maybe?) with styling that is progressive from the Enclave and luxury above all the 20-30k coupes/convertibles but UNDER the 40-50k coupe/convertibles... and Oh My God Buick has a vehicle that would be popular with everybody from car magazines (no matter how GM bias [think Solstice]) to, Oh my God, a younger and more wide variety of a customer base... How do you see Buick NEEDING to be starved to death with 3 of the most typical and oversaturated vehicles in the market with nothing severely popular about them?! The Lucerne and the LaCrosse have a fair chunk of their own market and the Rendezvous is sure to give the Enclave a fair chunk of its own market but Buick isn't the dumpy company it was in 2000 with 4 sedans all with v-6 engines and entirely ho-hum styling. There has only been improvement in style from the LaCrosse, Lucerne, and now the Enclave. And you think creating a vehicle that wouldn't only raise people's eyebrows to look at Buick yet AGAIN (after the LaCrosse, Lucerene AND Enclave which all are turning new heads they've never turned in the past) and this time actually be a vehicle that people dream about in their sleep and not just use for their spacious interiors and large trunks is a BAD idea?! and that GM wouldn't survive with one? I whole-heartedly disagree. This follower-attitude is exactly what Buick and GM don't need in order to stay out of debt.

Maybe I'm confused but 2 out of your 3 points Buick beats Lexus 350 (according to YOU) in quietness- yet it still isn't as "quiet as the Lexus ES to fit your definition of 'quiet tuning'"... WHAT? It has significantly less wind noise and road noise but because Buick uses an engine that, when accelerating (and I mean REALLY accelerating) reminds you of a low-growling muscle car and you say Buick needs to work on its engine... Are you crazy?! You PREFER a muted howl to a low growl? And be serious- the growl is only heard when you're punching the gas- and you are upset you get to hear a powerful growl?! You are upset it reminds you of a muscle car when you're flooring it (you even admitted in your review you enjoyed thinking of the engine as a muscle car and you thought that Buick should market it as such- but the fact is 275 HP isn't a muscle car compared to other muscle sedans such as the 300) Oh man- that has to be one of the best things about owning a GM car or a Buick in particular. I LOVE the growl my Regal makes when I floor it and I would never have it any other way. That growl does not signify less class, it signifies a force to be reckoned with. This is typical for all American cars (I believe)... you are asking Buick to have japanese engineering- that is where your bias comes from. Buick uses American engineering and you can hear it when you punch the gas... that isn't a sign of quality- it is a sign of who made the vehicle- Buick shouldn't be Lexus. That low growl is a big reason that I enjoy riding a Buick more than a foreign made vehicle that whirs when you speed up. It sounds like you put a lot of stock in to a "muted howl" but please don't discount all of Buick's quiet tuning because it isn't engineered from Toyota- thanks.

My grandparents bought a new Buick 3 years ago and 6 years ago, my parents bought a new Buick last year, this year, and about 3 years ago. And both sets aren't as faithful as me. I haven't bought a brand new Buick yet but then again I just turned 23 a couple weeks ago.

We'll just ignore the fact that last summer just happened to be more GM cars sold in the history of cars in one summer. Last summer was the sale of sales wasn't it? So obviously sales would be down this summer. It's only natural- not dramatic.

Who would not want a powerful luxury coupe that starts at around 30k and drops off at 40k? Especially if it's made by Buick with love. It's amazing that we can give pretty much all the coupes and convertibles to Pontiac and they still suffer from being a not-too-exciting brand. GM can "handle" bringing some real excitement to Buick. A nice large coupe in the 30k-40k price range would definitely corner the market and car magazines can't say "Buick trying to be like..." or "Buick following" because for once Buick took the advantage which is what they should when other companies put their guard down on this segment. There will be no 2010 Super Ultra Electra. That's just crazy sounding. It's going to be a Lucerne, and there is only going to be 3 vehicles. 2 SEDANS (as usual, what killed Buick's image), and 1 SUV. Great.

Nothing against the Solstice but it is not a luxury convertible or even an entry-luxury convertible. There should be no such thing as a "coupe/convertible brand"... they should each offer a bit of variety. Buick should not only sell 4 door sedans that always take a backseat to Pontiac's "performance" and Pontiac should sell some sedans too. A Buick coupe/convertible would bring style to a GM convertible/coupe that Pontiac just can not do.

Wow. That is awesome to hear. Buick NEEDS something that isn't a sedan or SUV.

There is never no-market for a certain type of vehicle and big coupes still have a market. But honestly can something that looks like the Solara even begin to accomplish what a Buick could look like if designed properly? And especially if it's on the same exponentially better track the Lucerne and the Enclave were designed off of... When you see a certain type of vehicle gone from the market for a little while (and big coupes have been gone for a while now with no real great ones being made today) they can come back. We're not talking minivans being replaced by SUV's here, we're talking about a one-of-a-kind vehicle that there is NO replacement for. You can buy a small couple or a big sedan but those aren't the same. A fantastic beautifully styled Buick coupe would not only make Buick's image go through the roof with younger potential buyers, the market is lax currently and Buick can have a virtual monopoly on elegantly styled big coupes... the only reason big coupes aren't popular anymore is because people forgot how to design them... The last gen Riv than was only selling 10k a year by it's final run probably had a lot to do with the fact that they only offered the Supercharged option and that is something not a lot of people are willing to commit to. That typically means if you want to treat it right you need to give it a lot better gas. THe non-supercharged Riv was cut in 96 or 97 and so by the time 99 came around and the vehicle had been out for a while and it wasn't offering many options- of course it's not going to sell great. A big, elegantly styled, Buick coupe, filled with options will get people pouring in to a Buick dealer just because people can actually drive around with some God damn style again. Enough with the sedans... that market is supersaturated and you probably will not obtain that many more sales appealing another vehicle in that market than you will in a market that you can control- like the big coupe. It's time for GM to get some balls and pounce on a proper opportunity... nobody ever got big money by competing in a supersaturated market... it's always where other companies have let their guard down...

Oh yea- I totally stand corrected- you wrote a negative review on two foreign vehicles so that means you're an obvious domestic lover. I'm sure you have your foreign choices and I could bet dollars to doughnuts (you don't get to hear that phrase often) you step outside and in to your foreign vehicle. It's not because you particularly bash the Lucerne so much as it is your style of writing gives it away that you want the Lucerne to be considered a joke because it's base models can't compare to the Lexus and the CXS model os far removed from its deserved price with it's howling tires, rock hard plastics, and apparently according to you, a too noisy V8- which you write on here is a great way to "promote" the vehicle or something but in your article you write in such a way that is saying "Since Buick fails at quiet-tuning (which should be no surprise since my whole undertone of this article has been negative about the Lucerne) at least promote it as an American muscle car because Buick can't compare to anything Lexus is doing with quiet tuning..." though it has... and technically (like it matters) the Lucerne is actually quieter when tested... so you're WRONG. Buick DID "out-Lexus" Lexus. Go ahead and drive your dirt brown, most overdone Sedan in the country that has the same chassis from older-looking cop cars and only is different because a Mercury Grille is slapped down there... obviously you have some style and taste if you're SERIOUSLY comparing a dead vehicle over a brand new Lucerne. The Lucerne is not a bad choice. You found maybe 3 things wrong with it, one of which included was the "loose shifter knob." Yet you'll go ahead and take your dirt colored Mercury that looks like it belongs in 1993 to look new but it's column shifter will never go loose for you (and that is what makes or breaks a vehicle, right?)... you obviously have style and taste... and are completely non-bias.

Has anybody heard that they've officially dropped the LaCrosse Super? Because they would not introduce the LaCrosse Super (the one that has been described to us as the LaCrossse that is most definitely on the same platform) if this was the case. Buick has been carting that thing around to shows under a sheet and typically that won't happen with a cancelled product... Are the LaCrosse sales that fantastically down really? From what year sales is he comparing the Regal/Century sales to the LaCrosse? Does the fact that the LaCrosse starts significantly more than the Century did contribute to this? Of course. How about the fact that it is only one car instead of two? Probably. Do we even know of another GM vehicle that ran for 4 years and was completely refreshed? It's impossible for the LaCrosse to get cancelled. Buick will have the Lucerne and the Enclave. If that happens Buick might as well be dead- what is the point of a company with 2 vehicles? This whole thread seems kind of silly because it's hard to believe GM is ready to cut out ANOTHER Buick vehicle without announcing their demise like Olds.

I don't know if it's purposely done or what but it seems reviewers who obviously enjoy foreign models and makes like to look at Buick and discount it because it isn't competing in a category that they'd rather be driving. For instance last I checked Buick didn't make Hawaii Five-0 cop cars but a comfortable luxurious vehicle at an afforable price. It seems reviewers like Mr. Mehta enjoy downplaying aspects of vehicles domestics don't compete in and enjoy exaggerating very small details to promote their agenda (sometimes it's so engrained that they do not understand they even have an agenda). Aside from a couple compliments in the beginning to feign being unbias the whole article has an attitude of "We just told the guy who paid for us to do all this stuff that it was a good car but in reality it is a joke." He doesn't seem to comprehend the idea of affordable luxury and once again brings in the "American Lexus" statement to make sure that Buick has definitely not become Lexus (thank God) and it deserves to be treated as a joke because of it. Buick is in the entry luxury market and the Lucerne is not meant to be cross shopped with a high end Jaguar or Lexus that is almost double the price. The purpose of Buick is to start in the mid-20s and head up to about 40k in price which isn't a common placement for a car company these days beause the gap between luxury and non-luxury is widening. If it's a luxury division you're lucky to have a vehicle as low as 30k, if it's the non-luxury division the highest prices typically go is 30k, the point of Buick is to connect the two areas and not to be conveniently compared to a Lexus with its entry level aspects. Exaggeration is also key in these types of reviews making it blatantly obvious what you should care about- "rock hard" plastics, "brittle" tires "howling" in disapprovement, "rowdy" soundtrack even though the Lucerne was tested to actually be quieter than Lexus, but yet he says Buick can't compare with it's quietness... Mr. Mehta, it is overtly clear of your bias against domestic vehicles, so why do you test drive them? It's obvious when you start to get giddy any time you even mention a car make from another country. When you clearly voice that the Lucerne is just so loud that it needs to find another way to market itself because quiet is definitely not it- and yet the testing finds it actually the quieter vehicle- you need to either go to a doctor, or get out of the "unbias" reviewing field.

They certainly allow FoB to say what they needed to say! Whew!

Haha, yes, I know- golf, of course. But what Buick seems to be missing now is some excitement in public's eye of their brand and golf doesn't really bring it all the way home with that idea. I'm not saying Buick needs to be involved in something like football or hockey as much as they are in golf- but throw a few more ads on during those games. I can tell you right now during the Stanley Cup finals Dodge owned the commercials almost alone. Sports fans typically like cars and like to see them, appealing to a more aggressive sports crowd would get Buick noticed again which is all it needs.

This news is about a week old but I have not seen it around here, there are two short articles I found on it here http://www.indiantelevision.com/mam/headli.../julymam118.htm and here http://www.tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=10443 Buick's marketing campaign has been aggressive using product placements in shows like Monk and The Apprentice as well as advertising on hundreds of major websites on the internet. My question to you is do you think this is effective? I question the effectiveness of placing the Lucerne in shows like Monk and The Apprentice (second season) when their popularity isn't at an all-time high and forgoing truly large events that Chevy and Cadillac or even Pontiac primarily advertise on like major sporting events or more popular shows than USA's Monk. However if the price was right from Monk it might be worth it. Getting more Buick's just as background in TV shows will boost its image I think.

That wasn't the point- the point was the unwarranted and unfounded "eating Buick's lunch" comment. He was just adding that it'd be nice to see the magazine actually compare these vehicles because most people already do.