Robert Hall

WOW, to have sales on a vehicle fall 86% when it is not due for imminent replacement with a publicized new model is horrible. It will be interesting to watch sales figures if gasoline continues its downward price trend, however. Are Americans TRULY weaned off our big, comfortable cruisers, or are we just waiting for gas prices to fall further? I'll tell you what, I would NOT want to be a product planner with such volatile fuel prices.

I think it's the combination of the gas prices and economy. I wonder if when the economy rebounds people will go back to big. I wouldn't buy an SUV or truck, but I would consider a big car, since cars get better mileage..

Looks pretty close to the 2007 SEMA concept other than the wheels, tailgate protector and lack of running boards...

Link #1

Link #2

The concept looks pretty similar to the regular Denali that's out now.

The disguised pic look like maybe the 2010 refresh will have a deep set grille like the '73 or other past GMCs.

Who "worships" toyota ??? More generic, one cannot get.

Probably the wrong word, but there are a lot of True Believers out there...I sure know plenty of 'em..

Looks too much like a Vue. I wonder if this thing is 4500 pounds?

Probably...or more, isn't this supposed to be Theta-Epsilon or Theta II (whatever the NG platform is called)? GM could use some genuinely small xovers in the US, I think...

For you GM/Pontiac/Zeta fans here's a G8, registered & apparently daily driven.

Shweet...I've only seen 3 so far on the road--two in Colorado and one in Miami...none out here in the desert horror yet.

Hmmm, pro-touring in a restored Colonnade...

Very tempting.

Hmmm...how about a '73 Chevelle SS or '75 Laguna, done pro-touring style with a Baldwin-Motion style L88 hood, BM graphics, but big modern wheels/tires, brakes, and a crate LS1?

Let's boil this down- the G-Body requies a larger trans tunnel & a different trans mount provision. It does not require an entire platform redesign. They choose not to do this (tho it very well may be money that's the issue). Once you put the numbers pissing match aside, GM's 4-spd auto is still butter smooth, dead reliable and completely unobtrusive. It still may pay a tiny penalty in MPG, however.

Does a FWD unibody have a trans 'tunnel' per se, though? Isn't the transaxle ahead of the firewall? Anyway, it comes down to marketing..I would think it's getting harder to push a percieved 'old' transmission when the rest of the market has moved on to 6spds..

Looks great..I only saw the orange one at the Denver auto show back March. I have yet to see one on the road or in a lot. I want a white one w/ Colorado plates. I love the styling...retro yet modern..stands out in a world of FWD generics.

Question is, would it take a major change to alter the platform to support it? I mean, this is in an area I don't know much about, so I'm just asking blindly.

I have no idea either...the G and W are wide cars, wider than the Epsilon, so I would think there would be enough room for the 6 spd transaxle.. but I have no idea how the dimensions and mount points for the 4spd transaxle compares to the 6spd..but the part where it attaches to engine must be the same, since the 3.6 has been is used with both in fwd applications.

And why would they do that when the UK is GME's largest market? Ask any ordinary British punter what GM (UK) Ltd is and they'd have no idea. All it is is a holding company, a single cost centre, and a tax vehicle. Vauxhall is where the brand equity is, because that's the name on the frontage of every dealership selling their product.

GME have plants across Europe from Spain to the UK to Belgium to Germany to Poland making products with both Opel and Vauxhall badges on them - but they're owned and operated by various respective subsidiary companies in those countries.

GM has had the option to move the manufacture of Vauxhall products out of the UK since 1926. The next likely rationalisation for production may well be Antwerp as Astra VI production starts at Ellesmere Port and Bochum. But we'll see.

I am surprised that GM still builds cars in the UK, though...I would the think the labour costs would be high compared to Poland, for instance. But who owns the Vauxhall brand name? GME, GM (UK) Ltd, or Vauxhall Manufacturing?

This topic comes around every now and then...

Before I starting reading it closely, for YEARS I thought your handle was 'triacindabob'---thought you were a fan of Kirk Kirkorian (Tracinda Corp).

As far as mine, I'm not sure why I picked 'moltar'..must have been inspired by Moltar The Inperious character on Space Ghost. It also reminds me of MostaB, the German word for something that I caon't remember.

I've been on the internet since the Usenet news groups era of the late '80s in college, have used many handles elsewhere, incl. moltar and 'Cubical', 'Cubicleman' and 'DJ Cubical'. My real name is Rob (NEVER Bob though).

'Usonian' is a term that refers to a housing concept created by Frank Lloyd Wright. It was intended to be a low cost, owner built home which was way ahead of its time. If by some miracle I actually get to build a new house someday, I'd like to build one of these. So, I'm Usonia.

Cool..I figured there was a FLW connection w/ yer handle. I'm a bit of FLW fanatic myself, have several books on his work, and have toured his home in Oak Park, Taliesin West, and Fallingwater...

As I kid, I wanted to be a car designer...I should have stuck to it and become Chris Bangle (he is from Ohio also).

Though if wasn't a software engineer/architect, I would have liked to have gone into architecture..I love industrial design and building design.

More overhang than the concept...I wonder if those are real light clusters...look like decals.

Griffon, I really am surprised at this coming from you. The above statement just isn't true.

General Motors (UK) Ltd was formed early in 2005 after GM-Daewoo's European operations became Chevrolet and Chevrolet (UK) Ltd was formed in 2004. This was part of a Europe-wide restructuring programme by GME.

GM (UK) Ltd is merely a "frontline" company for GM's UK marketing activities - it handles all the media, advertising, dealership, website and public relations operations for Vauxhall, Chevrolet, Saab in the UK and Opel in Ireland, under the jurisdiction of General Motors Europe. GM refers to it as a "business cluster." It's a holding company in its own right, however it is not a manufacturing or trading company.

That said, GM (UK) Ltd does have a structure though. It partially owns Chevrolet (UK) Ltd, and wholly owns both Saab GB Ltd and Opel Ireland Ltd as part of the group. Vauxhall Motors Ltd is also considered part of the group, however it is a wholly-owned subsidiary of GM in America. GMM Luton Ltd is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Vauxhall Motors Ltd and also part of the GM (UK) Ltd group. GM (UK) Ltd is essentially a corporation tax vehicle for GM in the UK and its income and expenditure are all management charges flowing between it and its related companies and subsidiary companies.

Vauxhall Motors Ltd is a manufacturing company, with GMM Luton Ltd being its commercial vehicle manufacturing subsidiary. Bill Parfitt was recently promoted in June from MD to Chairman of both manufacturing companies. This move followed John Browning's promotion from Chairman of Vauxhall Motors Ltd to one of GME's VPs.

GM (UK) Ltd is registered at Companies House and it shares its registered office at the same address in Luton, Bedfordshire with Vauxhall and GMM Luton.

Sounds like the brand equity for Vauxhall is with GM (UK) Ltd.... if Vauxhall Motors is just the manufacturing, it seems like GM could move all the manufacturing to S. Korea or Poland or elsewhere and just badge the models as Chevys, Opels, Vauxhall, whatever..

Your whole trip sounds pretty great, but I hope you especially enjoyed your time in Wyoming...most people don't seem to enjoy it as much as I do, granted I've lived in Rawlins and Laramie my whole life...I think the I-80 corridor is a bad representation of what Wyoming is really about though...

I'd like to see more of Wyoming...in my 11 years in Colorado, I drove across I-80 and back to SLC a couple of times...pretty barren.

Front resembles the Traverse with headlights similar to the Vue.

Well, I would think they would have gotten rid of the 4-speed by now for a luxury car costing over 40K, but I believe it's been discussed at length that the G-body just can't support the 6-speed.

Which is complete BS. How could it not support the 6-speed?

Looks like a bigger version of the new A4....lots of A4/A5 styling cues, inside and out.

Nice recipe, Ocn!

God I just want to spend all my time building such things...

Wonder if I could ever make a living doing so?

Phantoms have always intrigued me.

Maybe a GM equivalent of XV Motorsports...

Here's an idear: '81 Bonneville coupe, sans vinyl top and fender skirts. Black in color. Gold pinstriping. Trans Am shaker hood, concealing a 400. Snowflakes. Lowered, buttoned-down suspension. Rare, factory bucket seat/console interior, in tan velour. TH400 transmission, beefed posi rear. Wow... I think that'd be hot. I always loved a bad-ass B-body... a real rocket sled.

Oh yeah... definitely cool. I've always want to build an '78 Impala SS coupe. Buckets seats, F41 suspension, Rally wheels, etc.

The price is a bit high, IMO. And, the snowflakes have T/A wheelcenters - I'd bet this car did not come with them from the factory.

Why is it that I always remember these cars in a bright metallic green?

Yes, lots of them in greens and browns. I dated a girl in high school that drove an '81 Bonneville Brougham--4dr, silver blue, dark blue top and interior, had the traditional Pontiac mags..

Fascinating and bizzare..who would have thought there would be so many oldies in the epicenter of BMW, Toyota and Honda worship? I know in Collectible Automobile mag, they always have pics of vintage '50s-60s cars seen on the streets of San Francisco..

Fleetwood Mac

It's just that, too me, plood belongs with luxury, or rather pretensions of being luxury, and metal is for more performance oriented interiors/vehicles. Which one is Pontiac supposed to be?

It should be noted that, as far as I know, the two cars that most fit Pontiac's image of performance, the G8 and Solstice, don't have plood in their interiors.

That's just my :twocents:

It's always up the individual owner, of course, but even on 'performance' cars, I like plood...it adds some warmth visually to the interior. 'Metal' (i.e. aluminum colored plastic) is too cold and mechanical for my tastes... and real metal trim gets hot in the summer, so that's not good. I do like the old style 'turned aluminum' dash trim from the '70s Trans Ams and Bentleys though. One interior trim I strongly dislike is carbon fiber (fake or real)--looks disgusting, IMHO.